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The Rabbit Hole

  • #5,841
  • Jun 27, 2017 4:40am Jun 27, 2017 4:40am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} In a similar way that Cancer research people shake a little box and people still put money in it. The thermosphere is supposed to be as hot as 4500 deg F and the space station can hang out there no issues. We need to make tower blocks out of the same material.
People donating to cancer research think they are helping to cure cancer. How can subscribing to the theory of relativity help space agencies get funding? Most don't give a shit how the calculations are done and most people have no idea. In fact most don't even understand what relativity is.

How much will it cost then to clad tower blocks in the same material as the ISS?
  • #5,842
  • Jun 27, 2017 4:44am Jun 27, 2017 4:44am
Quoting Magog
I been thinking a lot abt the current state of the world and started to wonder what would have happened if we had lost WW2 Would the Soviet Union have existed for instance. Would the EU have been created. Would all the wars have happened like Korea,Nam,ME, the cold war. Would we have mass or any immigration? Terrorism? Would MLK/Kennedy have been killed? Would 911 have happened? Hitler would be dead now anyway and I don't believe he could have made any bigger fcuk up than we managed without him. Just thinking LOL.
I have wondered that myself from time to time.

I think that the Soviet Union would still exit today. I think the Russians would have eventually pushed the Germans back and Created a Communist Eastern counter to the Fascist West and used the 'buffer' countries as just that. I think the EU would have been unnecessary since this was really a realization of the Nazi dominated/unified Europe objective created via more peaceful means when the military ones failed. I think the Cold war would still be around now and it be a 3-way standoff between US, Europe, and Soviet Union. All deeply opposed to the others. I think there would have been certainly in Europe and Soviet Union so much police state control that migration from the muslim world would simply not exist because Europe/USSR would be such a hostile place for anyone who did not conform and they (muslim peoples) would not wish to set aside their customs and religions. Also I suspect ethnic clensing would probably have eradicated most minority groups. As to SE Asia, I suspect China and Japan might well have squabbled over the spoils with those nearest china being controlled from Beijing and vice versa.

I suspect terrorism would still exist except it would take a form more reminiscent of the french resistance movement in ww2.

AND importantly - I doubt we would be able to safely have this conversation the other way around had Germany and Japan won.
  • #5,843
  • Jun 27, 2017 4:58am Jun 27, 2017 4:58am
Quoting Magog
How long have Africans lived in Africa - 1000's of years? - Ok so how come after all that time they still haven't figured out how to feed themselves.
...because they're too busy killing each other.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,844
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:10am Jun 27, 2017 5:10am
Quoting jen101
{quote} People donating to cancer research think they are helping to cure cancer. How can subscribing to the theory of relativity help space agencies get funding? Most don't give a shit how the calculations are done and most people have no idea. In fact most don't even understand what relativity is. How much will it cost then to clad tower blocks in the same material as the ISS?
My point was it relies on hopes and dreams. They all justify their means to governments and vie for budget in much the same way as a department in a council says that their need is greater than another.
https://youtu.be/udX6y-FB3vU
https://youtu.be/ctd-QF982mA

As for space exploration I just don't buy it. Only proof I have is my gut just like only proof you will be able to find is what Nasa gives you and that changes so often just like the CGI they use.

I make fairly regular telephone calls to New Zealand using the sub marine cable network and that still gives slight delay at about 11,500 miles away.
57 years ago we could communicate with some guy on the moon 238,000 miles away without a hard wired connection.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #5,845
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:11am Jun 27, 2017 5:11am
Quoting jen101
{quote} No "authors grabbing kudos." It's a fact. Apart from all space exploration... moon landings, ISS, Curiosity on Mars, even Hubble... I'm not sure NASA could even exist without Einstein's theory of relativity.
Newtonian mechanics took us to the moon. We had barely invented the computer. Werner Braun did all the work ... do you think he would have listened to a Jew?
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,846
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:17am Jun 27, 2017 5:17am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Newtonian mechanics took us to the moon. We had barely invented the computer. Werner Braun did all the work ... do you think he would have listened to a Jew?
So really we went to the moon not really understanding very much?
  • #5,847
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:18am Jun 27, 2017 5:18am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} In a similar way that Cancer research people shake a little box and people still put money in it. The thermosphere is supposed to be as hot as 4500 deg F and the space station can hang out there no issues. We need to make tower blocks out of the same material.
It would glow if it was that hot
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,848
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:23am Jun 27, 2017 5:23am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Do you not think it is odd that despite all these satellites for the global positioning system that aircraft still have to adhere to "Oceanic Procedures" for open water flights. Why would they not use satellites as there are so many of them ? So it's more important to allow our cars to have GPS positioning than transatlantic flights ? Seems odd to me. Or perhaps we are still using ground based stations with improved signal boost for the fixes ? So called GPS technology is no different to Loran. Except the fix is supposedly coming from an...
When I was a lad..... I flew on a VC10 operated by BOAC. They had a thing called The Junior Jet Club, and members could peek at the cockpit in those days.
They had 4 flight crew, not including the stewards and stewardesses. One of those was a navigator, I watched him take a fix with a theodolite half way across the Atlantic just to make sure they were "in the right place".

I thought Loran was/is a triangulation system using similar principles to those used in WW2
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,849
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:31am Jun 27, 2017 5:31am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4642042/White-House-warns-chemical-weapons-attack-Syria.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4642590/UK-ready-reprisals-against-Syria-says-Fallon.html

1. Why would Assad want to attack civilians (again)?
2. Why are we just blindly following the Americans (again)?
3. Are we more outraged that Syrian children are butchered, but when our own are murdered, it is "part and parcel" of living in a city?
  • #5,850
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:31am Jun 27, 2017 5:31am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} It would glow if it was that hot
Well yes you would think so but NASA have materials that resist that temperature for sustained periods or so they say.

There are materials that have high melting points like 2500 deg c but what about the transfer of that heat, the material which sits next to has to have equal resistance and yet not transfer that heat to the inside of the ISS ? 1969 ?
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #5,851
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:35am Jun 27, 2017 5:35am
Quoting jen101
{quote} So really we went to the moon not really understanding very much?
Correct!

The "army" had been working upon ballistics for 2 centuries at least. Werner Braun fixed the control mechanisms for the rockets (I'm sure he had help) along with all the mechanical issues that come up to bite you when you start pushing the forefront of technology. That was all done using pencil and paper.

Speed of light? ....in your dreams
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,852
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:35am Jun 27, 2017 5:35am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} My point was it relies on hopes and dreams. They all justify their means to governments and vie for budget in much the same way as a department in a council says that their need is greater than another. https://youtu.be/udX6y-FB3vU https://youtu.be/ctd-QF982mA As for space exploration I just don't buy it. Only proof I have is my gut just like only proof you will be able to find is what Nasa gives you and that changes so often just like the CGI they use. I make fairly regular telephone calls to New Zealand using the...
we could communicate with some guy on the moon

Are you sure
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #5,853
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:42am Jun 27, 2017 5:42am
Water isn't just the problem but if doesn't rain ...
If there's a average white-black IQ gap say 15 points -In science i'd have to accept thats possible but probably has little weighting in the argument
"we would expect to find that people living near each other were more likely to be gentically similar than people living farther apart"

Your views seem to be revolve around the gap is so large ,leaving the reasoning there just so thick .
To start that argument you'd have to accept IQ test is definitive which looks really flimsy to me.

For people who seem intelligent it looks very much like a bad bias view point
We are talking super oppressed race over time especially during a crucial time period

BTW all humans stem from Africa most widely believed theory or at the very least its the one of the oldest
Genes can identify a person and find related people, but there's no genetic meaning of race or even ancestry
DNAsequence, each human is 99.5% similar to any other human

The actual reasoning which is way more complex-

1) Civil Wars and Terrorism
2) The Unending Corruption
3) Education and the knowledge gap
4) Health and poverty
5) Geographically Disadvantaged
6) International Aid
While $134 billion flows into the continent each year, predominantly in the form of loans, foreign investment and aid; $192 billion is taken out, mainly in profits made by foreign companies
7) Unfair Trade Policies


Quoting Magog
How long have Africans lived in Africa - 1000's of years? - Ok so how come after all that time they still haven't figured out how to feed themselves. WFP chief urges EU to step up funds for Africa famine http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/wfp-chief-urges-eu-to-step-up-funds-for-africa-famine-20170626
Quoting jen101
{quote} Pics of people carrying water on their backs. Not yet invented the wheel? Why not use wheels and a donkey? Drinking dirty water? How about making a fire and boiling the water? Basic survival.
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On-site guru & also FF member's' psychiatrist, when not drinking tea
  • #5,854
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:42am Jun 27, 2017 5:42am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} When I was a lad..... I flew on a VC10 operated by BOAC. They had a thing called The Junior Jet Club, and members could peek at the cockpit in those days. They had 4 flight crew, not including the stewards and stewardesses. One of those was a navigator, I watched him take a fix with a theodolite half way across the Atlantic just to make sure they were "in the right place". I thought Loran was/is a triangulation system using similar principles to those used in WW2
Is that how we got to the moon
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #5,855
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:43am Jun 27, 2017 5:43am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Well yes you would think so but NASA have materials that resist that temperature for sustained periods or so they say. There are materials that have high melting points like 2500 deg c but what about the transfer of that heat, the material which sits next to has to have equal resistance and yet not transfer that heat to the inside of the ISS ? 1969 ?
I need to research what the Thermosphere is....

...but once you are in a stable orbit the amount of matter is a few atoms per cubic meter, so it doesn't really matter how hot it is since the matter comprising a space vehicle would fill several cubic miles at that density.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,856
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:53am Jun 27, 2017 5:53am
https://youtu.be/mlChtZP_aj4
  • #5,857
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:56am Jun 27, 2017 5:56am
Quoting Bones
Water isn't just the problem but if doesn't rain ... If there's a average white-black IQ gap say 15 points -In science i'd have to accept thats possible but probably has little weighting in the argument "we would expect to find that people living near each other were more likely to be gentically similar than people living farther apart" Your views seem to be revolve around the gap is so large ,leaving the reasoning there just so thick . To start that argument you'd have to accept IQ test is definitive which looks really flimsy to me. For people...
Bones, you haven't addressed my point at all. I asked why do I see people carrying water on their backs? Why not use wheels? What has that got to do with rain or no rain, wars, corruption, terrorism etc?! What has it to do with DNA sequences or race? You said it, not me.
  • #5,858
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:59am Jun 27, 2017 5:59am
Quoting Bones
Water isn't just the problem but if doesn't rain ... If there's a average white-black IQ gap say 15 points -In science i'd have to accept thats possible but probably has little weighting in the argument "we would expect to find that people living near each other were more likely to be gentically similar than people living farther apart" Your views seem to be revolve around the gap is so large ,leaving the reasoning there just so thick . To start that argument you'd have to accept IQ test is definitive which looks really flimsy to me. For people...

1) Civil Wars and Terrorism Didn't stop Europeans or Chinese
2) The Unending Corruption Can't argue that one but even the corrupt need to eat
3) Education and the knowledge gap - AKA Intelligence
4) Health and poverty I thought Africans were super fit and Africa has abundant free resources - from gold to oil.
5) Geographically Disadvantaged - Not as much as America.
6) International Aid - Only needed bc they still can't feed themselves.
7) Unfair Trade Policies - Life ain't fair get over it.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #5,859
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:59am Jun 27, 2017 5:59am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} When I was a lad..... I flew on a VC10 operated by BOAC. They had a thing called The Junior Jet Club, and members could peek at the cockpit in those days. They had 4 flight crew, not including the stewards and stewardesses. One of those was a navigator, I watched him take a fix with a theodolite half way across the Atlantic just to make sure they were "in the right place". I thought Loran was/is a triangulation system using similar principles to those used in WW2
It is triangulation just like GPS. I really don't understand how a theodolite would be used to confirm position. It requires a line of sight to something fixed and with known co-ordinates. It would have have it's final fix from land based towers using triangulation and the then stick to the flight plan, speed, height, bearing to next waypoint, that is only way they can report their position. Decca, Loran, Omega all same principle. known co-ordinates of base stations and time to receive signal from known stations. The more fixes the more accurate the position. GPS is exactly the same principle except that the signal is transmitted from orbiting satellites if you can believe that. I have a hard time with that personally especially when transatlantic flights still have the "Oceanic Procedure". Why is that when they should be able to get a fix from numerous satellites ?

Also Ex I note you say when you were a "Lad" back then the theodolite was a different beast to today. We used to have to take what's called a face left and a face right reading by rotating vertical and horizontal axis through 180 degrees to reduce error. It relies on being stationary and level also. I'm not saying you didn't see that but it has got me foxed.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #5,860
  • Jun 27, 2017 6:04am Jun 27, 2017 6:04am
Quoting Magog
{quote} we could communicate with some guy on the moon Are you sure
That is my point. I think it is bollox.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
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