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  • #5,401
  • Jun 21, 2017 4:03am Jun 21, 2017 4:03am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} He must be done accumulating some fine British Pounds and ready to make a killing
I wonder if he is still holding his short on the S&P500
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,402
  • Jun 21, 2017 4:14am Jun 21, 2017 4:14am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} I personally think that this a bad thing. The kind of things that result from this defeat are an increase in the population of women who rely upon hospitals for giving birth by caesarian section because 100 years ago, or more, the small birth canal feature would have been 'removed' gradually from the gene pool. Another aspect is the continuation of generally unhelpful aspects such as weaknesses in lung-function or heart disease. However making those calls, particularly as a doctor who is under oath to try, is a tough one. {quote}As I said,...
Q,As I said, I believe in and support the effects of natural selection.
if you believe in this do you not think that as part of natural selection certain types of thinking are going to be affected because they are a benefit to the population as well as physical aspects that are also a benefit to the population and this is why there are differences in IQ scores and physical averages globally

Q.I read somewhere that this is thought to be due to the slave-trade, particularly in the US where local production of new slaves was influenced by the physical characteristics of the sire.
i do not think this is right why do south Africans still have higher levels of hormones but it dose bring me onto a another example of natural selection Jamaican people are genetically the cleanest people on earth like the Jews they have had a harder history than most and as a result the people with weak immune system died on the journey to the West indies and as Jamaica was the last stop it killed people most with poor immune system and this is not seen in the African American population as the people with weaker immune system still lived as least enough of them to not leave a genetic mark also both groups now have the longest Ape index it's different to their original west African groups which shows how quickly natural selection can take place

Q.As a person with dense bone structure I am curious to know how this feature conveys better survivability. Personally I found it useful when I used to play rugby (a while ago now) because people would bounce off me in certain situations. I also exhibited above-average strength at the time ... which is curious because I did not specifically undertake body building regimes. However a few sessions doing general labour between University terms made a world of difference, and my ability to lift 50kg in each hand was unusual, which is when I really noticed this feature (unloading a test-fixture for a lifting mechanism).
so if we lived in a environment where having a more dense bone structure was a benefit like the Maori did you would have the ability to spread your DNA further than a smaller built person as the Maori lived a island hopping lifestyle the ability to row their boats further and faster than a rival group was a advantage and this left a genetic mark on the population also as you have bring rugby up i spent a bit of time with Trevor Leota when he was playing for London Wasps and i have never seen a European man with his physical characteristics even his young daughter was a big lump it's a genetic hangover from before we got around natural selection Trevor Leota could beat in me mind at least most European people that have spend a lifetime practicing rowing a boat as he has a genetic legacy from his ancestors that needed to be good at it to produce children

Q,It is a fact that the most dangerous part of mankind is the piece between his or her ears. Why Man succeeded where other primates failed, such as Orangutans, I put down to the ability to communicate stored information. Maybe that is just another spark in the gene pool.
with out a doubt the most powerful tool of any group of humans is their brain but in a more mentally challenging environment this will also leave a genetic hangover like the Jewish population they have had a more challenging history that most groups they also have the highest average IQ they also are over represent in Nobel prize winners East Asia was civilised before Europe and living in a civilised environment is less physically challenging but more mentally strenuous with farming becoming tradesman and many more things and as a result the population of places like China Japan and Korea all have higher IQ than Europeans as the people with the higher IQ over 1000's of years were producing more children
  • #5,403
  • Jun 21, 2017 4:20am Jun 21, 2017 4:20am
No not at all I prefer to think everybody has there own strengths and and I don't like the idea that one test can tell you something so varied

Quoting Mingary
{quote} if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. High IQ is mostly NURTURE not NATURE Good luck with the master race ...
On-site guru & also FF member's' psychiatrist, when not drinking tea
  • #5,404
  • Edited 4:58am Jun 21, 2017 4:29am | Edited 4:58am
Quoting Bones
My problem is the way its measured as intelligence comes in many forms , the logic I say is because most people stay in the area their born ,which you could take further maybe like many countries are very good at certain things
If you took a person who scored 100 in an IQ test today, and measured them using the same test and applying the same normalisation they used nearly 75 years ago, that same person would score 120-130. African, Asian, European whatever... the performance of societies on IQ tests increases over time for a variety of proposed but ultimately unknown reasons.

This historical increase in the IQ of people have averaged at about 3 IQ points per decade, and is called the Flynn effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect). This means that black people today score higher on IQ tests than white people did years ago.

It raises the question, if IQ tests innate intelligence as some here claim, why have scores increased steadily for 75 years? Why do they have to keep 'renormalising' the test if it is a good measure of 'innate intelligence'.

The Flynn effect is just one spanner in the works. There are others, like city people out performing people from the country regardless of race. Like the first born tending to be the being the most intelligent within a family. That the larger a family the lower the IQ of each child individually. Identical twins reared apart can have different IQs.

I agree with you it's not straight forward. Intelligence and performance on an IQ test are more complicated than anyone of us know.
  • #5,405
  • Jun 21, 2017 4:30am Jun 21, 2017 4:30am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. High IQ is mostly NURTURE not NATURE Good luck with the master race ...
Doesn't that imply that if we nurture and educate the fish it will be able to climb the tree?
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #5,406
  • Jun 21, 2017 4:43am Jun 21, 2017 4:43am
Quoting Magog
{quote} Doesn't that imply that if we nurture and educate the fish it will be able to climb the tree?
I certainly hope so.
I am looking for a $3,000,000 research grant to achieve this goal
  • #5,407
  • Jun 21, 2017 4:48am Jun 21, 2017 4:48am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} Q,As I said, I believe in and support the effects of natural selection. if you believe in this do you not think that as part of natural selection certain types of thinking are going to be affected because they are a benefit to the population as well as physical aspects that are also a benefit to the population and this is why there are differences in IQ scores and physical averages globally
IQ tests do not measure IQ, they measure the ability of people to read, understand and produce a correct answer. They sift-out those who have a good memory and are also able to access their memory in a timely fashion. There are questions in some tests that are designed to make you think ... one day I will try ignoring the questions which are merely information retrieval exercises and answer only the thinking-based questions to see what the result is. If I can be arsed.

Quote
Q.As a person with dense bone structure ..... so if we lived in a environment where having a more dense bone structure was a benefit like the Maori did you would have the ability to spread your DNA further than a smaller built person as the Maori lived a island hopping lifestyle the ability to row their boats further and faster than a rival group was a advantage and this left a genetic mark on the population
You didn't answer the question. I do not deny that the Maoris have travelled far and wide, but that means they have stamina and an ability to survive. So too do the Kenyans and Ethiopians whose long-distance runners regularly beat everybody, it seems. That has nothing to do with bone density.

Quote
as the people with the higher IQ over 1000's of years were producing more children
I dispute that higher IQ facilitates or encourages reproduction. In fact in western civilisations it seems to do the opposite. Jen posted an excellent clip a few months back showing the zero child output of the high-achieving better educated people versus the poorly educated families who bred like rabbits. Higher birthrates in countries such as Africa are associated with higher infant mortality, and birthrates have been shown to reduce when the infant survival improves. Sorry but I don't have a reference to quote for that.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,408
  • Jun 21, 2017 5:11am Jun 21, 2017 5:11am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I certainly hope so. I am looking for a $3,000,000 research grant to achieve this goal
LOL
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #5,409
  • Jun 21, 2017 5:25am Jun 21, 2017 5:25am
BREAKING ALERT: EU is now SUING countries to FORCE THEM to accept more refugees!

Once Brexit kicks in, however, the Dublin deal no longer applies and every rejected refugee in Europe will have a new place to make their case – the UK.

http://investmentwatchblog.com/breaking-alert-eu-is-now-suing-countries-to-force-them-to-accept-more-refugees/
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #5,410
  • Jun 21, 2017 5:26am Jun 21, 2017 5:26am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I certainly hope so. I am looking for a $3,000,000 research grant to achieve this goal
You should apply to the EU for that grant. I hear that they are looking for a new breed of voter, you know the type, the ones that don't ask any real or searching questions about WTF the EU is doing
  • #5,411
  • Jun 21, 2017 5:38am Jun 21, 2017 5:38am
Quoting Magog
BREAKING ALERT: EU is now SUING countries to FORCE THEM to accept more refugees! Once Brexit kicks in, however, the Dublin deal no longer applies and every rejected refugee in Europe will have a new place to make their case the UK. http://investmentwatchblog.com/breaking-alert-eu-is-now-suing-countries-to-force-them-to-accept-more-refugees/
Excellent, Merkel fluckup and invites the Worlds migrants to Europe's shores and every other nation has to pay for her mistake and forfeit their cultures into the bargain. The every benevolent EU doesn't give a jot about nations, their electorate or their cultural heritage
  • #5,412
  • Edited 6:50am Jun 21, 2017 5:55am | Edited 6:50am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} IQ tests do not measure IQ, they measure the ability of people to read, understand and produce a correct answer. They sift-out those who have a good memory and are also able to access their memory in a timely fashion. There are questions in some tests that are designed to make you think ... one day I will try ignoring the questions which are merely information retrieval exercises and answer only the thinking-based questions to see what the result is. If I can be arsed. {quote} You didn't answer the question. I do not deny that the Maoris...
Q,IQ tests do not measure IQ, they measure the ability of people to read, understand and produce a correct answer. They sift-out those who have a good memory and are also able to access their memory in a timely fashion. There are questions in some tests that are designed to make you think ... one day I will try ignoring the questions which are merely information retrieval exercises and answer only the thinking-based questions to see what the result is. If I can be arsed.
i have done so many IQ test and you are wrong on so many levels i would recommend you paying money and doing a IQ test with a professional in a professional setting and than asking what the IQ test is measuring

Q,You didn't answer the question. I do not deny that the Maoris have travelled far and wide, but that means they have stamina and an ability to survive. So too do the Kenyans and Ethiopians whose long-distance runners regularly beat everybody, it seems. That has nothing to do with bone density
you do not have a good understanding of physical activities to make this comparison a activity like rowing requires completely different physical requirement to long-distance running these Kenyans and Ethiopians runners they all have lightweight body frames with thin long torso and spindly limbs with narrow shoulders which allows them to have bigger lungs they also do not naturally have large muscles which will require more oxygen and recently there was study which suggest Africans have certain muscle groups that have higher output than other groups keep in mind Africa has the biggest genetic differences of all continents so they need to do more studies and the Maoris have a completely different body type average that's why they are good at one thing and not the other

Q,I dispute that higher IQ facilitates or encourages reproduction. In fact in western civilisations it seems to do the opposite. Jen posted an excellent clip a few months back showing the zero child output of the high-achieving better educated people versus the poorly educated families who bred like rabbits.
and this is a modern phenomenon
  • #5,413
  • Jun 21, 2017 5:57am Jun 21, 2017 5:57am
Quoting verv
{quote} If you took a person who scored 100 in an IQ test today, and measured them using the same test and applying the same normalisation they used nearly 75 years ago, that same person would score 120-130. African, Asian, European whatever... the performance of societies on IQ tests increases over time for a variety of proposed but ultimately unknown reasons. This historical increase in the IQ of people have averaged at about 3 IQ points per decade, and is called the Flynn effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect). This means...
So my takeaway from that is - give it another 100 years and Africa will have an average IQ of 150 and they will have finally worked out how to feed themselves.

Only problem I see is that there won't be any Africans there coz they'll all be in Europe.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #5,414
  • Jun 21, 2017 5:58am Jun 21, 2017 5:58am
Quoting verv
{quote} If you took a person who scored 100 in an IQ test today, and measured them using the same test and applying the same normalisation they used nearly 75 years ago, that same person would score 120-130. African, Asian, European whatever... the performance of societies on IQ tests increases over time for a variety of proposed but ultimately unknown reasons. This historical increase in the IQ of people have averaged at about 3 IQ points per decade, and is called the Flynn effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect). This means...
Q,If you took a person who scored 100 in an IQ test today, and measured them using the same test and applying the same normalisation they used nearly 75 years ago, that same person would score 120-130. African, Asian, European whatever... the performance of societies on IQ tests increases over time for a variety of proposed but ultimately unknown reasons.
and peoples height has also increased for a variety of reasons but we still compare peoples height on the average of the population at the time the persons is alive am a giant of a men compare to people 200 years again it's also because examiners when to keep 100 as the average so it easier to compare results over time

Q,This historical increase in the IQ of people have averaged at about 3 IQ points per decade, and is called the Flynn effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect). This means that black people today score higher on IQ tests that white people did years ago.
and i read a study some time again that show the African Americans population IQ was increasing faster than the European population IQ could it be that a charge in environment and what makes a person successful has changed and the African Americans with higher IQ are now having more kids than African Americans with a lower IQ and this is something the European population has already experienced so the affects are less dramatic

Q,It raises the question, if IQ tests innate intelligence as some here claim, why have scores increased steadily for 75 years? Why do they have to keep 'renormalising' the test if it is a good measure of 'innate intelligence
they are doing it to make it easier for future reference and by keeping the avg at 100 helps in doing this

Q,The Flynn effect is just one spanner in the works. There are others, like city people out performing people from the country regardless of race. Like the first born tending to be the being the most intelligent within a family. That the larger a family the lower the IQ of each child individually. How identical twins reared apart can have different IQs
and there is no way people with a higher IQ are just more likely to be attracted to a city as they can see more opportunities and with the fist child thing the second child is more likely to get involved in combat sports and the identical twin thing is just not true unless one was in a abusive environment and did not mentally develop properly
  • #5,415
  • Jun 21, 2017 5:59am Jun 21, 2017 5:59am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} Excellent, Merkel fluckup and invites the Worlds migrants to Europe's shores and every other nation has to pay for her mistake and forfeit their cultures into the bargain. The every benevolent EU doesn't give a jot about nations, their electorate or their cultural heritage
Except for the Czechs and Poles, it seems. Maybe they are getting their own back for 1938
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #5,416
  • Jun 21, 2017 6:37am Jun 21, 2017 6:37am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} Q,If you took a person who scored 100 in an IQ test today, and measured them using the same test and applying the same normalisation they used nearly 75 years ago, that same person would score 120-130. African, Asian, European whatever... the performance of societies on IQ tests increases over time for a variety of proposed but ultimately unknown reasons. and peoples height has also increased for a variety of reasons but we still compare peoples height on the average of the population at the time the persons is alive am a giant of a men...
q. and peoples height has also increased for a variety of reasons but we still compare peoples height on the average of the population at the time the persons is alive am a giant of a men compare to people 200 years again it's also because examiners when to keep 100 as the average so it easier to compare results over time

I never said we can't compare IQs. I said it was not as simple as saying IQ = innate intelligence. My point throughout is this is more complicated that anyone knows, and that includes you.



q. and i read a study some time again that show the African Americans population IQ was increasing faster than the European population IQ could it be that a charge in environment and what makes a person successful has changed and the African Americans with higher IQ are now having more kids than African Americans with a lower IQ and this is something the European population has already experienced so the affects are less dramatic

So what you are admitting to is that it is complicated, which is what I have been saying, haven't I? The difference is that whilst others claim to know the right answer, I claim that I (nor anyone else) knows the answer.



q. they are doing it to make it easier for future reference and by keeping the avg at 100 helps in doing this

It's got nothing to do with future reference or making it easier, and everything to do with normalising the supposed population average to 100 points. IQ is a normalised test.



q. and there is no way people with a higher IQ are just more likely to be attracted to a city as they can see more opportunities and with the fist child thing the second child is more likely to get involved in combat sports and the identical twin thing is just not true unless one was in a abusive environment and did not mentally develop properly

Do people with higher IQs move to the city, or is it living in the city that produces higher IQs? I don't think anyone knows the answer to that.

You first say differences in identical twin IQ is not true, then you say it can be true in different environments - you are contradicting yourself in the same breath wtf?

  • #5,417
  • Jun 21, 2017 6:50am Jun 21, 2017 6:50am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} Q,If you took a person who scored 100 in an IQ test today, and measured them using the same test and applying the same normalisation they used nearly 75 years ago, that same person would score 120-130. African, Asian, European whatever... the performance of societies on IQ tests increases over time for a variety of proposed but ultimately unknown reasons. and peoples height has also increased for a variety of reasons but we still compare peoples height on the average of the population at the time the persons is alive am a giant of a men...
The other one is Jewish people. On average they have higher iq's than any other race/religion
Adriaaaaan
  • #5,418
  • Jun 21, 2017 7:02am Jun 21, 2017 7:02am
Quoting Johnramb0
{quote} The other one is Jewish people. On average they have higher iq's than any other race/religion
Ashkenazi jews have the highest average score at 115 and Jews in general score higher in verbal test than the average population the thing is though Ashkenazi jews are prone to genetic diseases no ethnic group has the best of all worlds
  • #5,419
  • Jun 21, 2017 7:05am Jun 21, 2017 7:05am
https://youtu.be/bm97NNvROrU
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #5,420
  • Jun 21, 2017 7:24am Jun 21, 2017 7:24am
Quoting Stu Effex
https://youtu.be/bm97NNvROrU
Makes ya wanna hire a van.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
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