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Discussions on Order Flow/Volume

Thank you for the reply. I too am discretionary in my entries and exits, but have "situations" that occur, currently based solely on price movement, that result in a direction bias, and then I rely on candles to enter. Today I attempted to combine what I already do with using the profile bars and could see confirmation of my price-based decisions. My best entry was actually using the profile bars (whether correctly or incorrectly, I do not know) to limit into a trade as opposed to my usual entry of stop orders above the market. Essentially, the decision was made to participate long, and the entry location confirmed with the profile bars. Below is the chart with comments; again no idea if my read of these bars was at all correct....

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I am also interested in your comments regarding the daily goal. I too have been focusing on a daily goal as opposed to continue to take every "setup". I have found more consistency and positive account growth with this mindset that continuing to trade.
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
  •  v2vboni
  • Joined Sep 2015 | Status: ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on... | 3,675 Posts | Online Now
Quoting DonPato
Hello Friends...just established my "mobile" office today and am looking at some charts...its been a couple of weeks so I am trying to ease back into this. I am currently looking at USD/JPY...well more precisely I have entered a short on this market with a pending short left to be triggered...
I'm Long on this one.

..near to mid-term positioning
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...mid to long-term positioning
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Since Frank Sinatra sings in his own way, my chart sing... I did it, my way
Quoting DonPato
Update on yesterday's entry: {image} As I suspected, an "order flow inversion" did occur yesterday once all the trader was finished. And now that I have seen this I am more confident in this short entry. Of note my pending order above the market, was NOT triggered (I suspect due to the spread). Perhaps later today price will spike higher and take that position as well. Just a few days left before the holiday season, and as usual, most of the volume in the FX market is off line. So I suspect price will "wander" and not do anything of note until after...
Took the opportunity to add one more SELL order...we'll see what happens by Friday?
Stay green!!!
Quoting Froggy
{quote} Took the opportunity to add one more SELL order...we'll see what happens by Friday?
I still haven't been triggered on my 2nd position. Low volume between now and new year will bring with it unpredictable and possibly volatile price swings.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I still haven't been triggered on my 2nd position. Low volume between now and new year will bring with it unpredictable and possibly volatile price swings.
Yes, the spikes usually are quite significant (+ 300p) hence I will close both if still running by Friday night (Sydney-AUS time)
Stay green!!!
Quoting jmflukeiii
... I am also interested in your comments regarding the daily goal. I too have been focusing on a daily goal as opposed to continue to take every "setup". I have found more consistency and positive account growth with this mindset that continuing to trade.
Long story short I did a multi-year study on my own stats and how I trade. This allowed me to determine RRR and optimal exit criteria for maximum profit with minimal risk exposure. Bottom line: any 31 tick winner is the goal. At the minimum single contract position size this represents a 1.5% gain. Once that is gained I cannot justify risking any further funds until the next trading day. Once 5% is reached for the week...same rule. This eliminates all other trades (winners or losers) and allows my equity curve to stay rising.

Since there is no "setup", the pressure of probabilities is gone. So I keep my gains for at least 1 day, and each new position is a new decision based on current conditions not probabilities. I have since found that the biggest thing that effects my equity curve is my ability to "stay in the moment" and not be distracted. This has nothing to do with the market and everything to do with my personal mindset and clarity of thought.

Thus I tell people (only 1/2 joking) that, "I make money with my mind...". I just love to see the puzzled looks on their faces...
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
  •  v2vboni
  • Joined Sep 2015 | Status: ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on... | 3,675 Posts | Online Now
Hi DonPato...

There are retail traders that have access only to an MT4 or MT5 platform due to circumstances they're at. Thus, they don't have those third party or custom paid platform (subscription-based) services/tools that provide an order flow data.

What are the other options do you think is useful for them?

For me, I only use Volume Profile with VWAP... using the J.Perl approach, but with a little bit of variation wherein I use two VWAP (main vwap and the other use as anchored vwap)

Regards,
v2v
Since Frank Sinatra sings in his own way, my chart sing... I did it, my way
Quoting v2vboni
Hi DonPato... There are retail traders that have access only to an MT4 or MT5 platform due to circumstances they're at. Thus, they don't have those third party or custom paid platform (subscription-based) services/tools that provide an order flow data. What are the other options do you think is useful for them? For me, I only use Volume Profile with VWAP... using the J.Perl approach, but with a little bit of variation wherein I use...
I have a very negative personal view of the Metatrader platform.. but I understand many use it because it is free. I also prefer an alternative platform that is also free cTrader. Except for the futures charts...all the screenshots I have posted are on this free platform. The delta volume profile is publicly available and I feel it is reasonably priced...it is not a monthly prescription. I have laid all this out in my other thread on volume and all the needed info is there.

It doesn't have to cost a lot of money but if you continue with MT platform...you WILL lose. The broker can all but guarantee that.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
  •  v2vboni
  • Joined Sep 2015 | Status: ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on... | 3,675 Posts | Online Now
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I have a very negative personal view of the Metatrader platform.. but I understand many use it because it is free. I also prefer an alternative platform that is also free cTrader. Except for the futures charts...all the screenshots I have posted are on this free platform. The delta volume profile is publicly available and I feel it is reasonably priced...it is not a monthly prescription. I have laid all this out in my other thread on volume and all the needed info is there. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money but if you continue with...

Yeah, that delta volume profile. I noticed that one. I used cTrader for 3 months before but personally, it doesn't give me the same kind of customization that I can do with the MT platform.

All brokers are using middleware (remember FXCM fiasco) that handles all trading transactions at the back-end side. They (scrupulous broker) can do everything there without getting audited by a regulatory body or the likes.

Back then, there were no cTrader, and MT platform dominates the market, and the disreputable brokers we're running VDPs (MT4 dealer plugins), and trade against or otherwise cheat many of their clients. A few years back, in my country, a retail broker was raided using this type of dealer plug-ins. Now at this time, with the advent of social media platforms, some noobs are getting educated or informed about these kinds of things early on in their journey to become a profitable trader. Hence, some of these brokers are playing the numbers or percentage (winners vs losers) to gain more clients with an overly aggressive marketing strategy. Even sell impotent systems and education (free or with a fee) by hiring paid mentors with IB or affiliate or commission agreement attached to their contract. They began to offer a huge amount of misleading and predatory marketing (e.g. huge bonuses, leverages, etc...), promoting retail trading as an easy path to a consistent income and thus pandering to the greed, laziness, and ignorance of potential clients.

The only difference between trading platforms is the feature it offers (e.g. functions, graphical user interface, tools/indicators, etc...). Meaning, all brokers with business practices that are detrimental to their own clients, can do the same no matter which platform you are using, more so if you are trading with a straight-out scam broker (Yes, even now they offer cTrader along with MT platform).

By the way, I'm reading some of your thoughts that were put into writing herein and your ways of trading. I'm still a student of the game... Thus, I'm gaining valuable information from others along the way.
Since Frank Sinatra sings in his own way, my chart sing... I did it, my way
Quoting v2vboni
... I used cTrader for 3 months before but personally, it doesn't give me the same kind of customization that I can do with the MT platform...
To each his own. I make no recommendations on platforms and/or data feeds, lest I be accused of some kind of salesmanship. The purpose of this thread is to acquaint those unfamiliar with the true nature of the market to its structure and how to use that to interact. I would rather this did not devolve into a debate about which retail platform is better...that is just a matter of opinion.

Quoting v2vboni
... By the way, I'm reading some of your thoughts that were put into writing herein and your ways of trading. I'm still a student of the game... Thus, I'm gaining valuable information from others along the way.
I am very pleased to hear that. I hope you will contribute when you have the chance. This is a discussion and I welcome questions (with regards to this thread's main theme), and comments on how you might be using it.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting v2vboni
...For me, I only use Volume Profile with VWAP... using the J.Perl approach, but with a little bit of variation wherein I use two VWAP (main vwap and the other use as anchored vwap) Regards, v2v
I've not heard of this approach but if you are using a Volume Weighted Average Price (VWAP) you are just back to using a moving average again, and all the issues that come along with it...especially the lag. Unfortunately I can't see how this helps, especially when you can "see" the order flow changing long before it ever effects the average you're tracking.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
DonPato, are there particular pairs you prefer to trade over others? From your experience, have you noticed certain pairs to be moving more in line with order flow read from your charts?
I could imagine that tick volume of a minor like CADCHF would merely be a result of trading activity on the major pairs USDCAD & USDCHF, rendering the delta volume less representative as it's not the pair itself being traded? Just a thought.

By the way, it looks like UJ is heading in the right direction. I found myself 'lucky' to be on the same page as you regarding its short-term sentiment.
Just a quick update on this USD/JPY short. I was triggered on my 2nd position last evening during the Tokyo session, and the London session seems to have been mostly selling. I suspect the longs in this market have cashed in just before the holidays, and there was no one left to buy. I am seeing that a few stops have triggered, but again, not be be pedantic but, we are in a low volume environment, so this is what I would call a low volume "whoosh". I imagine the majority of larger stops are piled up between 109.00-109.15. I guess we'll find out when it gets there...for now this short is working.
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Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting kennerU
DonPato, are there particular pairs you prefer to trade over others?...
I trade most of the USD based and crossed pairs. (except USD/CHF). In addition I also trade spot gold and silver, again as crossed with USD. And have recently begun trading Nat. Gas. I did do some WTI (West Texas Crude) but haven't revisited that market using my current tool set.

Quoting kennerU
...From your experience, have you noticed certain pairs to be moving more in line with order flow read from your charts?...
All prices and all markets move according the the order flow/volume. Let me just repeat that for emphasis because this is extremely important: All prices and all markets move according the the order flow/volume. From the smallest tick up or down to the giant moves after NFP. ALL prices move because of order flow and volume period! It matters NOT which market it is...even if it is a cross. There are still the same structural elements at work underneath the price movements. Active (aggressive) traders being matched with Passive (liquidity) until it is all used up at any given price. It is not representative, of another market, although it may seem that way. Also keep in mind that markets all over the world have an affect on each other. None operate in isolation. Thus if the Gold Market starts to move, that effects the USD...which in turn effects currencies...which in turn effect bonds...which in turn effect stocks...which in turn effect futures...etc...etc...It all happens so fast because we live in a "gig" society where we can all communicate with each other instantaneously no matter where we are in the world. If we can do that here...imagine that between banks and market that are directly connected to each other's data feeds.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
  • Post #175
  • Quote
  • Edited 11:45am Dec 19, 2019 11:32am | Edited 11:45am
  •  v2vboni
  • Joined Sep 2015 | Status: ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on... | 3,675 Posts | Online Now
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I've not heard of this approach but if you are using a Volume Weighted Average Price (VWAP) you are just back to using a moving average again, and all the issues that come along with it...especially the lag. Unfortunately I can't see how this helps, especially when you can "see" the order flow changing long before it ever effects the average you're tracking.
Not using VWAP alone, I combined it with Volume Profile. Also, the VWAP I had modified is using T3 MA by Tim Tillson and Jurik filters for almost zero-lag or non-lag at all (depends on parameter input). Hence, not the normal legacy VWAP.

Just an overview of J.Perl's approach. >>> PVP = Peak Volume Price. Normally called POC or point-of-control based on Market Profile.
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Since Frank Sinatra sings in his own way, my chart sing... I did it, my way
Quoting v2vboni
Not using VWAP alone, I combined it with Volume Profile. Also, the VWAP I had modified is using T3 MA by Tim Tillson and Jurik filters for almost zero-lag or non-lag at all (depends on parameter input). Hence, not the normal legacy VWAP. Just an overview of J.Perl's approach. >>> PVP = Peak Volume Price. Normally called POC or point-of-control based on Market Profile.
I will not say anything denigrating about your system of trading, just to point out it is a system and if its working for you, I say, "Congratulations!!" However I would appreciate it if we could return to the original theme of this thread. I am not, and I would appreciate it if you would not, advocate for any particular system of trading, that is not why I initiated this thread. I'm sure you can find many who would be delighted to hear more about it in another thread.

I too have a methodized approach to viewing the market that many might see as a "system" but I have not presented it here, ANYWHERE on FF. I strongly believe that each individual sees and interacts with the market in a very unique way and that any "system" or methodology must be of their own making and their own design. One cannot even begin to build any successful design if they don't even know how the market functions and where these cute little lines come from and how they are effected by the actual structure of the market. Using this structure needs to be at the base of any well thought out interaction strategy otherwise you will eventually lose. Think of it like learning to fly without knowing or studying the principles and physics of aerodynamics. If you don't even know what makes your plane fly, you WILL, sooner or later make a fatal mistake and have catastrophic results. Likewise, if you don't know what makes prices move up or down, you WILL eventually make a catastrophic mistake and risk much more than just your money.

Again, if your method works for you I truly wish you all the best. But please lets return to talking about market structure and how we apply it, NOT about platforms and systems. There are many other threads on just this forum to satisfy all your questions...lets talk about HOW and WHY the market does what it does...Please!
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
  • Post #177
  • Quote
  • Edited 12:53pm Dec 19, 2019 12:22pm | Edited 12:53pm
  •  v2vboni
  • Joined Sep 2015 | Status: ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on... | 3,675 Posts | Online Now
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I will not say anything denigrating about your system of trading, just to point out it is a system and if its working for you, I say, "Congratulations!!" However I would appreciate it if we could return to the original theme of this thread. I am not, and I would appreciate it if you would not, advocate for any particular system of trading, that is not why I initiated this thread. I'm sure you can find many who would be delighted to hear more about it in another thread. I too have a methodized approach to viewing the market that many might...

I am simply trying to have a healthy discussion about your methods or volume profile/order flow as you are using Volume Profile (delta) (a non-MT platform tool) wherein you pointed some of your views in terms of market structure based on that tool provided you which is maybe similar to the classic order-flow tool (without showing #bid/ask or contracts for the price within the bar) out there, which is a pretty good one to have under the cTrader platform.

Anyway, initially, I am not talking about the platforms and stuff in major things... I just replied to your notion about the MT platform as it means to an end if a trader is using that. I simply answered back that it is not the case at all.

↓
By the way, I am an Aeronautical Engineer... I know how aerodynamics work. ; )─

Quoting DonPato
{quote} I am very pleased to hear that. I hope you will contribute when you have the chance. This is a discussion and I welcome questions (with regards to this thread's main theme), and comments on how you might be using it.
...and I am replying only about Volume Profile using VWAP (non-legacy) or your notion about the VWAP (classic) as lagging. This is just like the sort of combination you had with volume profile ─ delta (under cTrader). Thus, I am still talking about Volume Profile related... and market structure by pointing out the J.Pearl approach. So if you got offended about my post here and you found it not to your liking... no issues from me, as it is not what I meant to be.

Good luck to this thread about Volume/Order flow.

For noobs... and the likes. A good introductory video in order to prevent "...catastrophic mistake and risk much more than just your money" and "..if you don't know what makes prices move up or down".
https://www.facebook.com/fxvits/videos/914568995411133/
Since Frank Sinatra sings in his own way, my chart sing... I did it, my way
Quoting Froggy
Hi Don, I Hope your love one is feeling better. I am with you on this one. This is my first attempt using orderflow, volume etc.... {image}
Took profit early as it is the last FrYday before xmas!
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Stay green!!!
Quoting Froggy
{quote} Took profit early as it is the last FrYday before xmas! {image}
Well done!! I don't know how much you where holding for but it looks like you made about 50 pips... congrats
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Well done!! I don't know how much you where holding for but it looks like you made about 50 pips... congrats
Thanks DonPato,

I would had liked to let it run to the next POC but at this time of the year with the

Yen

low volatility I prefer to close it.
Stay green!!!
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