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Attachments: Andrews Pitchfork (Median Line)
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Andrews Pitchfork (Median Line)

Quoting bunjow
Yes I understand what you are saying about control points for trendlines, but they are subjective (just like it is for drawing all normal trendlines). What i like about justcatalin's unique way of drawing schiff forks is that it is a 100% mechanical way to draw trendlines that are accurate and also seems to provide earlier signals than the traditional median line or the traditional modified schiff that was taught by Mr. Andrews.(imo) While it is true that the downtrend fork i drawn could be considered to have failed (since it did not reach the median...
I'm using pitchfork mainly for inside-trading (buying on lowerband, selling on higher band) and stop until a breakout occurs.

Question:
I have question to the other traders. Which signal confluence do you use with pitchfork, other than:
- failed re-test = trend signal (in opposite direction)
- many higher highs/swings followed but one lower high (trend signal in opposite direction)
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In page 86 of the book Action Reaction (Tim Morge) he explains the five pivot rules.

I have a question about this picture shown above this chapter:
- line R7 is 45 degrees. What should be considered when this line is 45 degrees?
- line R7 could be 75 degrees or 25 degrees, what if this was the case, what should be considered? What opinion can we draw from this observation?


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Quoting kain775
{quote} Hi Winston, thanks for your view You have a differant median line to mine, but I notice both of ours are projecting a downtrend. I have been studying median lines for approximately 1 month, but I honestly don't think my median lines drawn were invalid, and the yellow median line set was in control and had been previously tested too. My understanding is that when an energy point comes and price hits it, price will either have a strong reaction to it and bounce or price will plow through it. Taking the direction of price into considering it...
Thank you for your input! I dove into the graph you posted and edited it with circles, lines and text.

Question:
- is the text in the photo correct? Or did I write anything wrong that you could correct?
- are the lines drawn correctly? Orange = pitchfork. Red line = de-mark-trendline

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Quoting MaxenshteinD
{quote} I know, however what is the logic behind it in terms of microstructure ?
As far as I can see is that pitchfork takes and uses the basic principles of price action, namely:
- trend is your friend (since you're trading in the direction of the pitchfork)
- using trendlines to breakout (expecting range/reversal)(as someone once said: trading the main trend already takes in 10% profit i.c.t. countertrend trading)
- furthermore using the pitchfork means you are using the 'guaranteed trading rules' 1. price will always go up or down 2. price always goes in a similar pattern 3. price never stays in a 10-pip range for 4+ days 4. price never keeps trending upwards without reversal
- you are minimizing trading risk 1. you are using a system (which in itself means you are trading consistantly, you anticipate mistakes beforehand by doing proper MM, planning etc) as the saying goes: being prepared is half the work.
- you are using price action techniques: 1. failed re-test to opposite side means trend continues 2. new higher high means trend continues 3. breakout to lower trendline signals reversal
- we are discussing the system here which stimulates our trading system and inspires us so for that I will thank you, Max
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Forks have the ability to highlight market flow and direction. They can be purposely drawn counter to that flow.
Swings are the most fundamental market structure and using them as a foundation to draw forks is essential.
Using forks is quite discretionary and it is not a system. I submit so-called system trading is the reason the vast majority of traders fail.
The lines are not trading signals in and of themselves. In some situations line confluence or X marks the spot occurrences in the context of market structure and PA may be signals.

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Quoting Winston Reed
Forks have the ability to highlight market flow and direction. They can be purposely drawn counter to that flow. Swings are the most fundamental market structure and using them as a foundation to draw forks is essential. Using forks is quite discretionary and it is not a system. I submit so-called system trading is the reason the vast majority of traders fail. The lines are not trading signals in and of themselves. In some situations line confluence or X marks the spot occurrences in the context of market structure and PA may be signals. {image}...
Signature moves with wash/rinse structures.
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Quoting michaellobry
{quote} Thank you for your input! I dove into the graph you posted and edited it with circles, lines and text. Question: - is the text in the photo correct? Or did I write anything wrong that you could correct? - are the lines drawn correctly? Orange = pitchfork. Red line = de-mark-trendline {image}

Hi,

that post was from a year ago, I was unable to be profitable trading pitchforks so I won't answer your questions on it as it would be pretty much a case of the blind leading the blind

I did however take winstons advice and sign up to market geometry for a couple of months, the videos were quite interesting, I recorded quite a few of them [sorry, but no way am I paying all that money only to have access to them for a few weeks..] I did not attain profitability ....but something did end up clicking with a bit of the price action .....and I eventually improved a hell of a lot with tms [currently up 10% on a new account ..but only time till if i now have an edge]

I would be interested to have another go at median lines and pitchforks tbh with my updated price action skills but i've been happy with tms lately so think it's best to put most of my energy into that......
Interesting! I'm curious to know which tms thread or tms course you did. I will have a look at it as well.
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I started off with the main TMS thread by Big E, then switched to the m30 thread by likica, then started following Lastingwells tms thread for newbies [which introduced multi time frame analysis] .....then went back to likica's tms thread ...and ending up improving a lot, much of which I must attribute to following lisat
Trading is difficult only because the search to learn to trade is difficult.
Trading is difficult because the search to learn usually involves laziness (a desire to find something that tells you when and how to trade...indicators).
Trading is difficult because learning to trade involves denial of studying the actual market rather than studying things that attempt to tell you what the market is doing...indicators.

Trading is not so difficult once you understand the market. Understanding the market involves understanding market structure not indicators. Understand the market and trading will be much easier. Understand indicators and you will be endlessly frustrated as you try to understand why the indicator failed.
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Quoting Winston Reed
Understand indicators and you will be endlessly frustrated as you try to understand why the indicator failed.

Generally true, although every rule has its exception

there are people who are able to black-out their price charts and still be profitable just using indicators. check out the genesis thread continuation and the original thread if you have the time..

have also seen people doing this with another set of indicators [although this wasn't on FF]

Generally, for like 98/99% of indicator systems I agree that the user will have to get to grips with price action or he is destined to fail..
Quoting Winston Reed
Trading is difficult only because the search to learn to trade is difficult. Trading is difficult because the search to learn usually involves laziness (a desire to find something that tells you when and how to trade...indicators). Trading is difficult because learning to trade involves denial of studying the actual market rather than studying things that attempt to tell you what the market is doing...indicators. Trading is not so difficult once you understand the market. Understanding the market involves understanding market structure not indicators....
Happyness can't be bought, rich people are statistically not happier than poor people. One might conclude that becoming happy cannot be reached with money, while people with another perspective conclude that money will give you more options to become happy.

VS

The market can't be understood by indicators, technical analists using indicators cannot learn from market structures this way. One might conclude that the market can't be studied by studying indicators, while people with another perspective conclude that indicators will give you more options to study the market. I'll let you come up with your own opinion.
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I have yet to see a proven successful primarily indicator-driven method. Trading indis is a game of statistics and probabilities.
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Quoting michaellobry
{quote} Happyness can't be bought, rich people are statistically not happier than poor people. One might conclude that becoming happy cannot be reached with money, while people with another perspective conclude that money will give you more options to become happy. VS The market can't be understood by indicators, technical analists using indicators cannot learn from market structures this way. One might conclude that the market can't be studied by studying indicators, while people with another perspective conclude that indicators will give you more...
Sorry but you lost me.
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Hello old friends and new:

I haven't been to this thread for over seven years. I hope all are doing fine and things are going well on your front. I have learned so much from some of the best, generous traders and brilliant minds over here. To that, I thank you once again for your generosity, sharing and lessons. Take real good care and good health to all of you. Greetings to an old net friend Catalin and a good friend, Scrutch (blessings to you brother). Don't have time to fire up the MT4 but here's my take on the EURUSD Daily. Take real good care, guys.

Have a good one
Jeff
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~*~You are only one trade away from humility~*~
I have been studying medium lines for about seven months. I just recently found this thread can’t wait to read as much as I can .
INTERSECTION-MANIA!

Are the intersecting points of 2 opposing pitchforks significant in any way?
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https://www.mql5.com/en/charts/88474...group-holdings
Quoting kapital
INTERSECTION-MANIA! Are the intersecting points of 2 opposing pitchforks significant in any way? {image}
Bingo, but take your forks down a degree.
I used AP and its modified versions a lot, a great book for this argument I recommend is "The Best Trendline Methods of Alan Andrews and Five New Trendline Techniques" by Patrick Mikula. Then I discovered linear regression channels and fell in love with them.
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