I'll code for free your 6 months proven-record system as an EA

You are so going into the commercial section on Monday. I'll freely bump this thread up for you now.

So what? looking forward to it Do I sense some envy or what ?

Chill , haters keep hating .

I mean you no disrespect, but surely you must see that what you're doing now appears ethically questionable.

A few days ago, you were willing to code for free, but only upon first seeing a profitable track record of 6 months (if it was me, I would have said 3 years, btw).
Now, a mere few days later, instead of coding for free, you expect an investor to pay you between 1,000 and 20,000 euros, without even seeing such a track record (and after you say in your disclaimer "There is no guarantee that the software will generate profit according to theoretical simulations endured and obtained through the use of the "sotware" under laboratory, demo and live conditions.")?
That's the "contradiction".

I think your original proposal was more sound. If the trader believes that his system is profitable, then he should take the risk by paying you, the programmer, an agreed rate to undertake the work, for which he receives the source code and any distribution rights; or whatever arrangement you otherwise mutually agree on. That is the only fair way to go about it; I gave my reasons in the links in post #11.

Your disclaimer accurately articulates the risk IMO. No EA can ever trade as intelligently or adaptively as a human; there is a serious risk of loss of profitability in automating ANY trading idea. FWIW I've coded several EAs for other "profitable" traders, and I wrote some thoughts on this topic here. I would also highly recommend reading Daniel Fernandez' blog, before undertaking any such project. Just my 2 cents.

[EDIT] My background is very similar to yours, by the way.

Thanks hanover, I highly respect your work and skills.

A disclaimer is just that, a disclaimer. It's necessary and it's everywhere in this business, but it doesn't mean that there isn't any value in whatever is being "disclaimed" from it

I have to admit that maybe it wasn't a good idea to blend the two fronts I'm currrently working on, in the last months now. I'm coding EA's all day long for people and many times I know just from seeing the specs that they're doomed to a superfast descending equity curve on the tester, which makes me feel a bit discouraged as they are paying me to code something in which they'e investing their hard-earned money and their expectations are high, but I can't speak out because that's my job, I need the money and I'm not the strategics that will discuss it with them. So it would be a great to code something that's profitable fo a change

But, on the other hand, with so many different approaches I've seen, so many years experimenting, I also have my own ideas piling up inside a drawer that I am eager to take out and explore further, probably with a more genuine feeling of certainty, if only time and resources would be available: let's call this the 'part-time' entrepreneurial on-the-side project which really never takes off. - this is where investors come in.

Now for the initial idea to code for free. It's still on and was basically an experiment, a call for the attention of someone who eventually would be on the lookout for something like it. While coding for someone else, I've seen only 2 EA's in my career that resembled unquestionably something that would be profitable, both were paid for by people with large pockets, all the hundreds of others ended up probably in the virtual thrash can of the client, I'm sure you Hanover know this reality also.

So basically, the first approach has nothing to do with the other project, altough it could be blended together obviously.
if I can enhance my own concepts with any valid knowledge from another system then it'll make it even better. My investors may or may not want that, but I'll discuss with the parties involved, if we get there. I don't care if people outside the automated trading world don't get what I'm trying to do. It's ok, this is a tough business and there are a lot of sharks, envious, wannabes, etc.

Right now, it doesn't matter because I don't think there will be any profitable system being discussed here anyway.
I enjoyed the discussion though.

The links you provided are great resources. thank you.

Fair enough. I'm hesitant to be too critical, especially of a fellow hard-working programmer.

I've already said most of what I wanted to say in the links. There's no point in repeating myself, so I'll just move on now.

I don't know if katrooo found a coder; if you're still happy to do some free work, you might like to contact him. I don't know him personally, but he seems more genuine than most; anyway, your estimation is as good as mine.

Good luck with all of your projects.

dumbest idea by far so far

Well, maybe if it was to be coded for MT5 would be a better idea ?

Your twisted view of the world doesn't allow you to see it correctly. Look at this this way: I have a good idea and skills (that you obviously don't have and can't understand) that wealthy investors can fund to make even more money in the near future for themselves. The cost of it is that I am also getting paid. On the other hand, if someone else has a better idea, then he/she can jump on the wagon with me and see if we both can make an even better outcome for both (and eventually for ou investors). Got it now? or you still looking through the frustration glass ?

Let me guess, you're looking for one of those ? I may have one for you but I'm guessing you can't afford it...

is this a commercial thread

12 months means nothing. First, show me a 100% mechanical system that's been consistently profitable for the last 5 years, and also meets all of your other criteria, and then I'll tell you what it would be worth -- personally to me, that is.
__________________________

[EDIT] Let me progress this more quickly, by anticipating your possible reply. The reason I said "show me a system" are firstly, unless such a system exists, and is accessible to me -- as a retail trader -- the question is pointless. Secondly, past performance is only one thing that I'd want to consider. I'd want to know HOW the system works, evaluate its strengths and weaknesses, decide for myself how sustainable its past returns might be, know how it manages risk/drawdowns, how frequently it trades, what market conditions it needs to flourish, how well it would cope with black swans, whether its MM is better suited to growing a small account quickly or providing smaller gains on a large account, what on-going costs might be needed to run it, and so on. I commented about things I look for in EAs in more depth here.

If I was still developing software for a living, it would take something exceptional to persuade me to code it for anything less than an hourly rate. When it comes to something as unpredictable as forex, a bird in the hand is worth a hundred in the bush. At least that's been my experience to date.

i'm closing this thread down as it served its purpose already,

I've now understood a few things:
- retail wannabe traders waste too much of their valuable time in effortless arguing, at least I hope they can get some out of their chest
- investors do not hang around FF (what a revelation! )
- this is not the place to find a serious trader who's worth partnering with for a serious business venture

Hanover, buddy, I more and more understand why you decided to stop coding trading strategies for people.

I can't seem to be able to close the thread so I will simply update it with the following:

my funding campaign has been taken elsewhere as I don't want to have a private professional investment-related project mixed up with a public community project like the one I initially started here. I realize they are not compatible in a community and general forum like this one.

Cheers.

Good luck, I hope that you find the right kind of people to make this work for you.

As a wrap up, I'd like to say to those persistent enough and well-minded algo traders/coders that if you persist on learning and stay humble, at some point of your journey you'll get there and find the right people to help you. That's what happened to me, some months after closing this thread I kept my ground, believed in my abilities, kept learning the professional way and kept networking with potential investors. Eventually some gentleman with several businesses approached me regarding an algo trading fund startup business. I took the plunge and the responsibility, and together we built it from the ground up. Long story short, after two years and deep pockets invested we are now seeing our systematic portfolios bringing decent return on investment. This is just to show it's possible and that nothing is unreachable if you truly believe in it. Of course, always ignore the naysayers.
To your success!
End of thread.