When your primary income is not (yet) from trading

What do you do for your primary income as you begin with trading? And how to you find the time to trade, that fits around your job?

(Because, unless you've got 100,000$ USD to start, its unlikely you will be able to live off your trading, month after month, without another source of income.
If you were using that 100,000 to make a 3% monthly return, that's 3,000 a month, and enough to live off sure. Even 2,000 a month could be done. BUT....

I'm guessing most people who begin do not have that much capital. Therefore, what do you do for income/a job as you begin, and how do you fit trading into your day when you have a job?

I work 9-5 EST. But days when I've not had to work have been my best trading: during the NY session. SO... I need to either quite trading, or change jobs so I'm free from 8-12 M-F. I'd prefer the later.

So... if you are in this boat, how do you manage it?
Cheers.

This is a really good topic to talk about as. Capital acquisition and finding enough time to trade while having a job are 2 entirely different questions.

In the past I have been trading alongside my other activities which was possible to a certain extent but especially for the news trading part of strategies there were always events which I couldn't trade do to other obligations. This didn't feel well and my trading return would have been better without a doubt if I would have been able to concentrate fully on trading. Luckily I am free enough to pretty much spare some time here and there but this is not optimal!.

The first question is if 3,000$ are really enough if you already managed to build up such capital. You might already have a certain living standard which you won't be able to maintain. Depending on your background, but If you only look at the monetary side I wouldn't be happy with 3000$ income from trading. Finding a job would be much more "worth" it in this sense. Is cutting back on your monthly capital to spend and being under much more psychological pressure in form of needing to earn money on a regular basis worth the "freedom" trading is giving you? Everyone has to decide that on his own but also be sure that you factor in additional costs that you currently do not have to worry about. (Don't forget that you have to pay taxes on the 3k a month, depending on where you live health insurance, and a retirement plan etc ....)

The most obvious answer would be to trade a long term strategy. Here is a guy who is trading with a full time job and you might want to take a look how he is handling it (the strategy looks good as well so maybe it's worth a shot. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=574512). Giving up on your current job because of trading is not a good idea if you can't already support your living. And by this I don't mean that you barely make enough money to pay your bills but to also handle drawdown, and extraordinary events. Trading is a hard business and not matter what I say you will be the one who has to endure the consequences so better be honest and cruel than sorry later on. By looking at your trade explorer 23 weeks ago your trading did not really look great. Have you really improved so much that you would risk your entire social status you have build up so far? What would people think if you need to sell your house and move into a small apartment?

Maybe I drifted away from the original question a little bit but these are just some thoughts you should consider before becoming a full time trader. If you are not in a hurry managing other peoples money is also a possibility, you just have to build up a good trading record for a longer period of time.

You said in the beginning trading not investing..... C'mon,..... Really? Even if you had a million dollars, you won't be able to make a living from trading..... in the beginning or maybe ever. You will learn something though. How fast a million can go to zero. Just blink your eyes. That's about the speed.

Anyway the answer to your question is use a high enough time frame based on,..... how often you can check it. How often you can check it is based on your job/work-place-rules/boss/jealous-rat-co-workers. Trade demo until you get the feel for that time frame. All time frames make money. It doesn't matter. If you can take a peek every hour, start there but be sure to eyeball every major news event whatever the time.

P.S. The only time you quit ...EDIT: change your job to trade is when the income from your job+benefits (pension, medical, annuity andor 401k) .... is laughable compared to your income from trading. I have a Surface Pro and my own secure hotspot. Both never leave my side.

Thank you both for your input! Good thoughts!

To be clear, my goal is not to leave my job to trade, but rather:

My goal is to find a job where I do not have to work during the NY session / This way I could give trading my total focus, while also holding down a full income at a job so I don't feel a "need" to force trades for money.

I've tried time-frames from Daily to one minute, and perform by far the best on the 15M TF. It seems to fit my personality the best ( closing to cash when not at the computer, yet no so fast that I feel if I blink I'll miss an optimal entry, lol)

i think you need more experience or already had a way to make profits.

to change a job and try it, i think is not a good idea.
better prepare until you can do it, then only change your job.

Hi piperomia. If your goal is to find a job that leaves you available for trading during NY session, then why not get a swing shift or graveyard shift job? There must be janitorial openings around the NY area. I doubt if the pay is great, but you wouldn’t have a whole lot to learn, and there wouldn’t be a whole lot of stress. That way your mental powers could remain focused on trading, and you wouldn’t go home each day carrying around emotional baggage from work. Meanwhile save as much money as you can, but instead of depositing it in the bank, put it directly into your trading account. This seems like a reasonable approach.

Pips Cruiser,

Thank you for your thoughts. That's a great idea. I did some research on second shift jobs, and there are a number of them that actually pay pretty well - a small living wage. Kinda of exciting. Its something I'm going to really look into. The way I see it, is that if I am going to decide to take trading seriously, I'm going to have to go all in. No, part way, kinda sorta thinking about it stuff - but create a lifestyle where I can give my 100% focus to it consistently! Big life changes must be bold!

Glad to hear it. I did shift work most of the time while going to university. I see some definite similarities between what you’re doing now, and what I was doing then. Best wishes!

Working night and day trading - it is very hard physically. Falling concentration, you will make a lot of mistakes. I would advise to find shift work. Or work at home (your own business)

Move to the west coast - trade from 5am to 8am PST (NY/London overlap), and then you have time to get to your office job at 9am.

Piperomia

I think you are looking at this the wrong way around, what I get from your comments are I don't want to trade for a living, I want to have freedom from the ties of my job and trade fx so if that's the case then you are looking at this problem completely wrong.

I would be doing my best to build a business up and start putting capital aside to trade with LATER, in the meantime you can learn how to trade properly, you can manage your own time because you are running your own business and also if you are smart you will build into that business as quick as possible simple systems that others can execute so you can freed from the chores of your business

this is what I did.

Don't think about the problem you have now think about the solution.

Two broad options as I see it.

If you are a discretionary trader then consider moving out to longer term time-frames. Very good sustainable returns can be achieved through weekly timeframe trading (W1). Don't restrict yourself to forex as any liquid instrument will give you great experience and will also assist with diversification. Monitor trades after work or before work and research in the weekend for the week ahead. An example of a weekend trading strategy for US stocks. Another good example of a strategy that has legs for those who have a day job is described by a great guy on this forum.

If you are a fully automated systematic trader then you can monitor your system while still having a day job. The hard yards is in the development and occasional tweeks which you can do on holidays and weekends.

Trading is not an 'all or nothing sport'. It is simply the desire to escape from the drudgeries of reality that creates the urgency to trade full-time. If you have this urge then I advise you to take a teaspoon of cement, think of your dependents and if you have them......suck it up. Those who decide to make the break to full time trading usually blow out and have to return to a paying job with their tails between their legs.

Why not enjoy trading while at the same time earning a consistent income. That way you will have a longer brighter future with less family calamities and find that you enjoy trading even more and can participate in it for longer. Only go full-time when you have done your leg work and are sufficiently capitalised to sustain the droughts (which necessitates scaling into full-time trading in a planned and considered way)........, or can trade other peoples money to increase your cashflow above and beyong your cashflow needs....... or have sufficient capital to not be dependent on the regularity of cashflow and thereby allow yourself to wealth create without the added stress of having to provide a sufficient income from trading to pay for necessary living expenses.