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  • #301
  • May 15, 2008 3:31pm May 15, 2008 3:31pm
Quoting moneybags
This chart got me thinking yesterday.
At which point do you guys think moving the stop to B/E is best?

Because if you notice in this chart, the bar around 9:00 on the 13th (the pin) looks like it would have taken you out at B/E if the stop had been moved.
(The first pin with the check mark would've hit the SL as well if it was moved to BE. Price had already moved up about 70 pips before that)

What are your thoughts?

Thanks
Tom
Thanks for rubbing it in moneybags.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=182


http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=184

Just kidding moneybags.

That's one of the problems of moving to breakeven, while you reduce your risk you also reduce your profit potiental.

I believe Peter wouldn't mind accepting many trades where his stop loss is hit many times when it cost him nothing. This is what I learn from this trade.

Jim
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #302
  • May 15, 2008 5:39pm May 15, 2008 5:39pm
Instead of moving your stop to breakeven, has anyone thought about taking their half position out at double the pip risk in profit (assuming it gets there of course)?
Leonardo Follower
  • #303
  • May 15, 2008 6:21pm May 15, 2008 6:21pm
Quoting shodd
Instead of moving your stop to breakeven, has anyone thought about taking their half position out at double the pip risk in profit (assuming it gets there of course)?
This is a good point shodd, that would allow one to reduce or eliminate our trade risk while still giving our trade a chance to run.

There are many ways to manage a trade and to see that we are looking at ways to reduce are risk or loss it great. To me, trading is all about the reducing or eliminating risk and losses. The profits will take care of themselves.

You might have heard this before.

Novice traders continually monitor, analyze and adjust their trades to maximize their profits.

Professional traders continually monitor, analyze and adjust their trades to reduce and minimize their risk or losses.

Jim
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #304
  • May 15, 2008 6:47pm May 15, 2008 6:47pm
Quoting jarroo
Novice traders continually monitor, analyze and adjust their trades to maximize their profits.

Professional traders continually monitor, analyze and adjust their trades to reduce and minimize their risk or losses.

Jim
Wise words Jim!

I haven't been in this game seriously for all that long, but I do remember a point not that long ago when my perspective changed from the former to the latter
Leonardo Follower
  • #305
  • May 15, 2008 7:12pm May 15, 2008 7:12pm
Quoting shodd
Instead of moving your stop to breakeven, has anyone thought about taking their half position out at double the pip risk in profit (assuming it gets there of course)?
That in a way was what I thought Peter was doing. I'm sure he gave an example where he sold half at 1:1 R/R leaving him the second half in the market at no cost, without having moved it's stop.
Good Trading
  • #306
  • May 15, 2008 7:20pm May 15, 2008 7:20pm
Quoting aud
That in a way was what I thought Peter was doing. I'm sure he gave an example where he sold half at 1:1 R/R leaving him the second half in the market at no cost, without having moved it's stop.
shodd is doubling the trade risk in profit on the first half without moving his stop loss on the second half. He's just banking some profit.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #307
  • May 15, 2008 7:27pm May 15, 2008 7:27pm
Yes and take what the market will offer with a tight stop on the 1st half of the trade. I'm just pointing out that you do not need to move the stop on the 2nd half of the trade to reach a risk free trade. As I understand it the idea is to widen the stop on the 2nd trade as the market allows.
Good Trading
  • #308
  • May 15, 2008 7:51pm May 15, 2008 7:51pm
I feel that if we all put our heads together, we can fill in the blanks that we are missing from the DIBS method and have a really successful trading system. My main focus is this:

Quoting PeterCrowns
And, contrary to some common beliefs, not all breakouts are the same. I know which breakouts have 2 - 5 times the edge of similar-looking breakouts others take, get frustrated with, and likely lose money trading if they don't have perfect skills. -Peter-



We need to find the edge. This will reduce our losses and refine our entries. So what edge does Peter have that gives him 2-5 times better trades?

I don’t know but I am willing to put in the effort and screen time to find out. I guess it would have been easier if he told us but that’s life. Maybe once in a while he will drop in here and give us hints or point us in the right direction.


Here are some ideas...
1. using pennants (he mentions this in earlier post)
2. maybe if the IB has a body that is too big, skip it. It might be lacking consolidation.
3. find out what his "mathematical tipping point is"
4.consider weekly trend
5.maybe consider how far the open and close price of a bar are from the high's and lows of the bar. On a candle chart, that would be, how big are the wicks?

This method is brilliant in its simplicity, so I’m thinking to find the edge that gives us 2-5 times better entries, we have to look at simplistic ideas; The stuff that is right under our noses but we can’t see it. But what do I know, just trying to do some brainstorming.

Also we have been discussing stops in the last few posts. Here are my 2 cents on the topic: We need to give the trades a chance to run. Peter makes it clear that we need to sit on our hands and wait. So this is what I will be doing:
Let the trade go to 1:1, then close half and tighten my stop by 25%.

Example: If I have a 20 pip stop, after it goes 1:1, I will close half, and make my stop 15 pips, therefore still giving the trade the potential to run and locking in 5 pips. I feel that this gives the trade a better chance then moving the stop to Break Even and we get a small 5 pip gain. These small gains can add up to a lot of pips over a month. Moving the stop to B.E. greatly reduces your chances to get big gains. Think about it, we only need 3 or 4 big gains a MONTH, to make a good sum of money. Also I feel that these big gains are needed to cover some of the losing trades that never made it to 1:1. I think that reducing the stop by 25% will not cause too many trades to close prematurely and enable us to lock in a small profit.

Also I will be keeping a journal of all the trades I take, so that I can better refine the process.

Let’s get to work.....

Best Regards,
Edwin
  • #309
  • May 15, 2008 7:56pm May 15, 2008 7:56pm
Officialy, I am happy where this thread progessed to.
Unoffocially, I am dissapointed that it has become a "Journal" thread rooted in the Rookie forum.

Please don't missunderstand me, I love what has happened here. In Fact, I think it has been one of the most revoloutionary threads on this board. But, {as the author} I would ask that One of You Start a NEW DIBS Thread for all these Long&Short Calls. No Free Lunch... is not about DIBS, It's about more than that.

The Sooner you do, The less you will have to Transpose.

PC. ie Peter Crowns. Please watch for this suggested New Thread and with the Grace o... you may consider posting to both.

Seriously guys, This thread is starting to look like a Journal and closing the door to any "New Contributions."

Help me here, please.
  • #310
  • May 15, 2008 8:06pm May 15, 2008 8:06pm
Quoting Bemac
Officialy, I am happy where this thread progessed to.
Unoffocially, I am dissapointed that it has become a "Journal" thread rooted in the Rookie forum.

Please don't missunderstand me, I love what has happened here. In Fact, I think it has been one of the most revoloutionary threads on this board. But, {as the author} I would ask that One of You Start a NEW DIBS Thread for all these Long&Short Calls. No Free Lunch... is not about DIBS, It's about more than that.

The Sooner you do, The less you will have to Transpose.

PC. ie Peter Crowns. Please watch for this suggested New Thread and with the Grace o... you may consider posting to both.

Seriously guys, This thread is starting to look like a Journal and closing the door to any "New Contributions."

Help me here, please.
Hmm, perhaps a specific DIBS thread where folks can post their charts and strategies is a good idea. Though it might also end this thread if no more pit traders come in and share a bit about their experiences...
  • #311
  • May 15, 2008 8:09pm May 15, 2008 8:09pm
Quoting edwinnk
I feel that if we all put our heads together, we can fill in the blanks that we are missing from the DIBS method and have a really successful trading system. My main focus is this:




We need to find the edge. This will reduce our losses and refine our entries. So what edge does Peter have that gives him 2-5 times better trades?

I don’t know but I am willing to put in the effort and screen time to find out. I guess it would have been easier if he told us but that’s life. Maybe once in a while he will drop in here and give us hints or point us in the right direction.


Here are some ideas...
1. using pennants (he mentions this in earlier post)
2. maybe if the IB has a body that is too big, skip it. It might be lacking consolidation.
3. find out what his "mathematical tipping point is"
4.consider weekly trend
5.maybe consider how far the open and close price of a bar are from the high's and lows of the bar. On a candle chart, that would be, how big are the wicks?

This method is brilliant in its simplicity, so I’m thinking to find the edge that gives us 2-5 times better entries, we have to look at simplistic ideas; The stuff that is right under our noses but we can’t see it. But what do I know, just trying to do some brainstorming.

Also we have been discussing stops in the last few posts. Here are my 2 cents on the topic: We need to give the trades a chance to run. Peter makes it clear that we need to sit on our hands and wait. So this is what I will be doing:
Let the trade go to 1:1, then close half and tighten my stop by 25%.

Example: If I have a 20 pip stop, after it goes 1:1, I will close half, and make my stop 15 pips, therefore still giving the trade the potential to run and locking in 5 pips. I feel that this gives the trade a better chance then moving the stop to Break Even and we get a small 5 pip gain. These small gains can add up to a lot of pips over a month. Moving the stop to B.E. greatly reduces your chances to get big gains. Think about it, we only need 3 or 4 big gains a MONTH, to make a good sum of money. Also I feel that these big gains are needed to cover some of the losing trades that never made it to 1:1. I think that reducing the stop by 25% will not cause too many trades to close prematurely and enable us to lock in a small profit.

Also I will be keeping a journal of all the trades I take, so that I can better refine the process.

Let’s get to work.....

Best Regards,
Edwin
I'm with you Ed.

I would add . .
6. Time of day.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #312
  • May 15, 2008 8:31pm May 15, 2008 8:31pm
Sorry guys But Posts of "I think (or see) " are not what this thread is about Check out "Threads Started by Jarroo" to follow direction caused.

Hope you understand.
  • #313
  • May 15, 2008 8:48pm May 15, 2008 8:48pm
He's working on it.

Give him some time cause he's trying to make sure he get's it just the way He Wants it.
  • #314
  • May 15, 2008 8:50pm May 15, 2008 8:50pm
I start a new thread in the Trading Systems forum.

The DIBS Method . . .No Free Lunch continues

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=86766
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #315
  • May 15, 2008 8:57pm May 15, 2008 8:57pm
HEY !!!
You Guys !!!

Just don't forget that there is still "No Free Lunch..."

I'm still out there looking for the next Guru contribution.
  • #316
  • May 15, 2008 9:55pm May 15, 2008 9:55pm
Quoting Jay Walker
Could you elaborate on that? Pretty please?
Waaayyy baack. but look what happened.Way ta go Jay...
  • #317
  • May 16, 2008 1:04am May 16, 2008 1:04am
Quoting Bemac
Officialy, I am happy where this thread progessed to.
Unoffocially, I am dissapointed that it has become a "Journal" thread rooted in the Rookie forum.

Please don't missunderstand me, I love what has happened here. In Fact, I think it has been one of the most revoloutionary threads on this board. But, {as the author} I would ask that One of You Start a NEW DIBS Thread for all these Long&Short Calls. No Free Lunch... is not about DIBS, It's about more than that.

The Sooner you do, The less you will have to Transpose.

PC. ie Peter Crowns. Please watch for this suggested New Thread and with the Grace o... you may consider posting to both.

Seriously guys, This thread is starting to look like a Journal and closing the door to any "New Contributions."

Help me here, please.
Hi Bemac - thanks for starting this thread, as you can see, I'm finding it usefull and will be happy to comply with your wishes and move my DIBS comments to the new thread.

However, from my experience of other threads in FF, once the thread's starter - or whoever has become the main poster - stops posting, the thread dies. This would be a shame here as posts from actual professional traders are rare and I hope that you can continue to keep it alive and I'm happy to help if I can.

Regards

Issy
Trading Levels with WRBs
  • #318
  • May 16, 2008 3:54pm May 16, 2008 3:54pm
Quoting Bemac
Officialy, I am happy where this thread progessed to.
Unoffocially, I am dissapointed that it has become a "Journal" thread rooted in the Rookie forum.

Please don't missunderstand me, I love what has happened here. In Fact, I think it has been one of the most revoloutionary threads on this board. But, {as the author} I would ask that One of You Start a NEW DIBS Thread for all these Long&Short Calls. No Free Lunch... is not about DIBS, It's about more than that.

The Sooner you do, The less you will have to Transpose.

PC. ie Peter Crowns. Please watch for this suggested New Thread and with the Grace o... you may consider posting to both.

Seriously guys, This thread is starting to look like a Journal and closing the door to any "New Contributions."

Help me here, please.
-Bemac-

Your suggestion very smart.

I will keep an eye out for a new thread. I may be able to post from time to time.

This was a challenging week, but overall fairly profitable.

What I like is the fact I get fewer trades when the market is messy like this week.

Trend days are pretty obvious.

-PeterCrowns-
  • #319
  • May 16, 2008 4:12pm May 16, 2008 4:12pm
Quoting PeterCrowns
-Bemac-

Your suggestion very smart.

I will keep an eye out for a new thread. I may be able to post from time to time.

This was a challenging week, but overall fairly profitable.

What I like is the fact I get fewer trades when the market is messy like this week.

Trend days are pretty obvious.

-PeterCrowns-
Sounds great Peter.

In a way, I'm glad you haven't posted that much because it gave me and others time to find are way through testing and practising. Which is the best way to learn.

Don't get me wrong, any comments that you can provide will be a great asset.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks again.

Jim
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #320
  • May 16, 2008 5:02pm May 16, 2008 5:02pm
OK. Thanks guys, I will be a regular {lurker} @ your New Thread with perhaps a comment or two.

For those that want to stay in touch with DIBS, find it here...
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=86766

ps. I'm gonna have to make a minor insignificant post to DIBS to recieve e-mail of new posts.
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