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The Dollar Cost Averaging Pivot Point Trading Method

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  • Post #1
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  • First Post: Edited 10:15pm Jul 14, 2014 10:01pm | Edited 10:15pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
So, I figured I'd take some time to outline my basic pivot point trading method guidelines, which is what I use on a daily basis to take advantage of intraday price swings between pivot points.

For several months, I have posted about this method on DailyFx's Trading Journal forum. Originally, the intent of my journal was to evaluate and test the Mirror Trader Platform's "free" automated strategies to see whether a method of choosing and using the strategies could be developed that would be profitable, save me time, and, quite honestly, whether they were worth anything, given the fact that they were "free."

Much to my chagrin, I was unable to be consistently successful using the suite of strategies they have available, having been frequently aggravated by some of the trading decisions made by the strategies I'd set up to run. To be completely fair, however, I virtually abandoned trading using the Mirror Trading strategies within a month of carefully picking, implementing, and then managing the chosen strategies, primarily due to the fact that (1) I am a control freak; (2) virtually learned nothing of value looking at the trades the strategies took, since their methodology was not transparent and was not always readily apparent from looking at the charts; and (3) I was at a loss as to why certain strategies would pass on a 50 pip gain, only to let a trade slip into and stop out in the red, eventually ascertaining that these strategies were -- to use a baseball analogy -- batting for the wall when all I wanted to do was hit well placed ground balls to get to first base. I simply am not the kind of trader who can tolerate or wait for a strategist to strike it big on one 2-1 risk/reward plus trade to offset their slow torture of my equity in the mean time, especially in these low volatility markets where one has to inevitably settle for less.

I also think that, as a trading community, Forex Factory tends to be a little bit more active than DailyFx, since I imagine that the vast majority of users there are due to their being associated with one broker, FXCM, while here there are folks you use a wide number of brokers, so I figured I'd start a thread here instead.

In any event, ...

As with any method, I tweak these rules or guidelines from from time to time or exercise common sense and discretion with individual trades. I know that this method may violate several cardinal rules. However, the method tells me when to enter; when to exit; can be done with a minimum of time before the New York and Asian sessions; gets me in and out of trades in fairly short order; and frees me from paralysis by analysis. I refer to the method as "dollar cost averaging," since, in essence, you are buying a pair with a lot size that remains constant intra-trade for the cost of that fixed size lot at the time it is purchased.

Does it, for example, on occasion have large intratrade drawdowns? Certainly. Do you add positions to what traditional traders would label "bad" trades? Yes. Is failing to use stop losses crazy? Yes, to some, it is insanity; however, one of the hallmarks of the system is the virtually miniscule position sizes as compared to what I've seen traders using. Naturally, if you're going to use 10 x equity (10%) of your margin per leg of the trade, you're going to quickly run into trouble with doing things this way, and you'd best move along. But I assume you, like me, are also tired of having your trades stopped out, only to have price move in the direction of your original trade and then to your TP in short order. Again, I'm not batting for the wall; I'm trying to make singles ... . Stops get in the way of the relatively small movements I want to take advantage of intraday and jack up an otherwise good trading choice when the only thing that is lacking is the preciseness of my timing as to entry.

In a nutshell:

The basic set-up is a 1H chart with the following indicators: Fib Retracement Pivot Points (Daily) and 200 SMA. You can also use an RSI, other MA's or indicators to assist you in your decision-making process as to the direction your trade should take. If you platform doesn't have Fib Retracement Pivot Points, you can also use Classic or Camarilla pivot points as guidelines for entries and TP's.

Small lot entries/small lot positions: .25-.5 times equity for each entry. For example, if you have $10,000 worth of equity, your lot sizes should be between 2 and 5K for each entry. Try to keep in mind that you may want to add to a given position if the TP is not hit immediately and where the set-up remains valid. Where possible, keep the total size of any position to <1 times equity. What is of primary importance to me is that, under no circumstances do I want to get near having a margin call, with the destructive result being that the system shuts down positions. You may be comfortable with larger positions; this size suits me, at least for now.

My routine is to first check what's on tap on the econ calendar, focusing primarily on medium or high level reports; generally, low level reports don't move the market much. I generally want to avoid pairs that are most likely to be affected by a given report.

I then start scrolling through the charts shortly after the New York close (as this is when "new" daily pivot points are formed), generally looking for 200 SMA's with fairly flat aspects, price action that moves back and forth across the SMA, or price that is hugging the SMA. I may also look at how the RSI is behaving in attempt to validate the direction I think I should go. Additionally, I will also just look at price action for swing highs and lows and see how well those levels have been respected. In other words, I am generally looking for pairs that are range-bound, at least for the short term. Additionally, I will use multi-time frame analysis to examine how the pair's price is doing with respect to the 200 period MA. Generally speaking, if price is below the 200 SMA on the 1 and 6H time frames, I will look to fashion an entry order to sell; if it is above, I look to fashion a buy.

Also, I may look at even higher time frames (8H, Daily) to see if the pair is in a discernible range, short term or otherwise. Naturally, if it is ranging, but in a wider range, I may opt to wait until price moves more to the top or bottom of the range to consider a trade.

For buys: entry order at .236, TP at .764. For sells, entry at .764, TP and .236. I virtually never set an SL, unless it is ensure profit or avoid loss after price has moved into profit.

Where a position opens and the TP is not reached by the close of the following day, reset the TP to the new levels established by the newly formed pivot points and, assuming the set-up is still valid, create appropriate entry orders to add to the position in the direction of the original trade if it makes sense (again, sells at the .764, buys at the .236). If the resetting of a TP to the new pivot point would result in a loss, I generally set the TP to at least a 10 pip gain.

If the order for the additional leg executes, adjust the TP to the greater of the appropriate pivot point or 10 pips, whichever is greater.

Use common sense to avoid situations such as doubling up on currencies or closely correlated pairs, onerous swaps that will cut into your profit, and pairs that just aren't worth wading into due to the narrow range in which they're trading. For example: (1) if you've got one Yen long cross, leave it at that. There is little point going long with CHF/JPY and EUR/JPY; they're basically the same thing. Doing that can amplify your gains, but can set you up for multiple "dog" trades that you have to gracefully exit, rather than just one. Look for other set-up's with other currencies. They're virtually always out there. (2) Right now NZD short has an onerous swap. Since you can't be absolutely certain that you'll be able to exit that before incurring a negative swap, it is best to avoid NZD shorts for the time being. Look for NZD long set-up's going forward. (3) There are several currency pairs whose movement is glacial and not worth bothering with. For example, and against my better judgment, I entered into a EUR/CHF trade earlier today that only had a potential range between the .736 and .234 of less than five pips. The pair ran through my range, and I gained some pips (2.7 to be exact), but really, are you that desperate? (well, I guess I was, because I took the trade).

* * *

I would note that I frequently violate a couple common rules regarding risk management and risk/reward ratio with this method. First of all, I almost always do not apply stops. However, the lot sizes are so small that I would have to endure a 200 pip spike for me to begin to feel the pain. Use common sense; if you've added to a position thinking that your set-up is still valid and your position is approaching 1 times equity, place some kind of reasonable stop if that is what you need not to have a heart attack. Secondly, while the risk-reward ratio sometimes starts out pretty good (from .236 to .764 is a pretty good gain with most pairs), this ratio will narrow if the pivot box contracts due to less volatility or the pair moves against you. Again, though, you're looking for singles; not home runs.

You may, on some occasions, want to let certain trades run. If that is the case, however, you want to at least consider taking some of the meat off the table at the .764, 1, or 1.272 (in the case of a buy), and placing a stop in such a way that you are trading with house money at that point.

As with all things, some patience is required. In my case, I examine the charts, place the entry orders, and then try not to look at the charts again until the following morning or evening. The movement of certain pairs, after all, can be maddening in the short-term either because they're moving at a glacial pace (EUR/CHF) or because they seem to be bouncing all over the place (GBP/JPY). There's no point in staring at the screen; it won't help the price move in the direction you want. Believe me, I've tried. Moreover, quite frequently, you may have to hold a position longer than you'd like. Ideally, you'd like to be out of positions by the weekend so that you can sit back and relax without having to think about that "dog" trade you made that is weighing you down, but that's not always possible. Sometimes, you may have wait for the right moments to add a leg or legs to the position to allow you to exit the net position profitably; don't panic, pairs are in ranges 70% of the time and sometimes all it takes to be successful with a net position is time and for the pair to fall back into a range or begin consolidating.

* * *

Lastly, it is unfortunate that I am a Mac user and don't use Metatrader, which I have found to be unstable. Consequently, I can't set up a Trade Explorer (at least right now, the techies here have told me), which would save me tons of time. I will try to post examples of trades and results here on a regular basis. I am not here to pump a system or to advocate a particular way of doing things. This is just an idea you can look at and consider, along with the apparent gajillion other ideas posted out there on the web. Also, this is not the only tool I use in my toolbox; there are plenty of trade set-up's out there that I look at that involve somewhat intricate charting and examining the precise point at which I am going to consider a buy or sell and that may require several weeks of waiting for the set-up's to develop. This is just what I use on a day-to-day basis.

Regardless of whatever system you use, happy trading! (Or, at least, heart attack free trading).

Mike, The ZebraSquirl
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • Post #2
  • Quote
  • Jul 14, 2014 10:24pm Jul 14, 2014 10:24pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Month-to-Date Results: 47 trades, 539.5 pips

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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I'll try to post example trades as I go ... .
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #3
  • Quote
  • Jul 14, 2014 10:32pm Jul 14, 2014 10:32pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Here's an example of an open position I took early today, an AUD/CHF long, price for which has going back and forth across the 200 hour MA for at least a few days now and appears to be (somewhat sloppily) in a range. The entry order was fashioned for a buy at the .236 (which executed), and the target price is the .764 (.83862):

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I'll post how it turns out ... .
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #4
  • Quote
  • Jul 14, 2014 10:46pm Jul 14, 2014 10:46pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Current Open Positions

EUR/USD Short at 1.36162/TP 1.36062 (Will settle for +10 pips here; TP did not hit first day out)
NZD/USD Short at .87988 (Multiple Legs; Net Position)/TP .87888 (I will settle for ten pips here, since the swap is horrible on the short)
EUR/JPY Short at 138.275/TP 137.990
AUD/CHF Long at .83706/TP .83862

Pivot Point Based Entry Orders

USD/CHF Good for Day Long at .89074/TP .89231
GBP/USD Good for Day Short at 1.71256/TP 1.70888
EUR/USD Good for Day Short at 1.36288 (Addition to Open)/Same TP

Long-Term Non-Pivot Point Based Entry Orders

*--These are GTC orders that may take several weeks to develop, and that I don't want to space out:

GBP/AUD short at 1.82948
EUR/AUD short at 1.48635
GBP/NZD short at 1.98507
EUR/NZD short at 1.61901

Usable Margin: 95.8% Usable Maintenance Margin: 91.59%
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #5
  • Quote
  • Jul 14, 2014 10:54pm Jul 14, 2014 10:54pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
You can also wade through my entire DailyFx forum thread for example set-up's, actual trades, and the like ... : http://www.dailyfx.com/forex_forum/m...ml#post1963392

Oodles of fun stuff.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #6
  • Quote
  • Jul 14, 2014 11:00pm Jul 14, 2014 11:00pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Stop loss on AUD/CHF long fixed at BE (.8370).
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #7
  • Quote
  • Jul 15, 2014 2:18am Jul 15, 2014 2:18am
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
NZD/USD short exited for small profit on net position (thank goodness; swap was eating me alive):

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Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #8
  • Quote
  • Jul 15, 2014 2:19am Jul 15, 2014 2:19am
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Quoting ZebraSquirl
Disliked
Stop loss on AUD/CHF long fixed at BE (.8370).
Ignored
Stop loss removed to allow breathing room for trade. Looked like it was going to hit the TP fairly quickly, but nooooo .... .
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #9
  • Quote
  • Jul 15, 2014 2:29am Jul 15, 2014 2:29am
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Current Open Positions

EUR/USD Short at 1.36162/TP 1.36062 (Will settle for +10 pips here; TP did not hit first day out)
AUD/CHF Long at .83706/TP .83862
EUR/JPY Short at 138.275/TP 137.990

Pivot Point Based Entry Orders

USD/CHF Good for Day Long at .89074/TP .89231
GBP/USD Good for Day Short at 1.71256/TP 1.70888
EUR/USD Good for Day Short at 1.36288 (Addition to Open)/Same TP

Long-Term (GTC) Non-Pivot Point Based Entry Orders

GBP/AUD short at 1.82948
EUR/AUD short at 1.48635
GBP/NZD short at 1.98507
EUR/NZD short at 1.61901

Usable Margin: 97.81% Usable Maintenance Margin: 95.61%
Current Position/Leg Size .5 x equity/.5% Margin
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #10
  • Quote
  • Jul 15, 2014 11:54am Jul 15, 2014 11:54am
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Early New York Session

EUR/USD Short TP hit for small profit:

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Name: 7:14 EUR:USD Short.jpg
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EUR/JPY Short TP hit for entire span from .764 to .236:

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Name: 7:14 EUR:JPY Short.jpg
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AUD/CHF Long TP hit for the entire span from the .236 to the .764:

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Name: 7:14 AUD:CHF Long.jpg
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The EUR/USD short entry order that was intended to add to the existing short that hit TP is deleted.
The USD/CHF long entry order is deleted; price is now outside the .764, and I don't think it will retrace back to the .236 before the New York close.
The GBP/USD short entry order executed.
The long-term (non-pivot point based) GBP/AUD short order executed.

Current Open Positions

GBP/USD Short at 1.71258/TP 1.70888
GBP/AUD Short at 1.82948/TP 1.81180

Pivot Point Based Entry Orders

None at this time.

Long-Term GTC Non-Pivot Point Based Entry Orders

EUR/AUD short at 1.48635
GBP/NZD short at 1.98507
EUR/NZD short at 1.61901

Usable Margin: 98.11% Usable Maintenance Margin: 96.21%
Current Position/Leg Size .5 x equity/.5% Margin

Other Notes

Obviously I could have stayed in the EUR/USD and NZD/USD shorts longer and captured more pippage. This is just how it works out sometimes. Frankly, I was just happy to get out of the NZD/USD short with a net profit on the position before I incurred another swap, which had already sucked about five pips out of the trade.

At the end of the New York session, I'll consider adding entry orders to the open positions, as well as look at other pairs to dive back into. I am currently in GBP (2x), AUD (1x), and USD (1x), so I'll want to look at wading back into EUR, JPY, and possibly CAD, although CAD has some settling down to do after last week's movement.

I consider the GBP/AUD short a long-term play; you can see I'm looking at trying to capture over 150 pips there, at least the way the order is fashioned now. With that particular position, I'll look at adding positions based up longer-term Fib levels. You can see, for example, that the 1.8375 is an important level to watch going forward and may be another place to consider adding a position, depending upon how the "big picture" looks:

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Name: 7:14 GBP:AUD Short.jpg
Size: 651 KB


See you at the end of the New York sesh!

Mike, a/k/a ZebraSquirl
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #11
  • Quote
  • Jul 15, 2014 5:17pm Jul 15, 2014 5:17pm
  •  merquise
  • | Joined Jun 2014 | Status: Member | 371 Posts
So basically you are working with micro lots (10c per pip) on a 10k account, right?
 
 
  • Post #12
  • Quote
  • Jul 15, 2014 5:48pm Jul 15, 2014 5:48pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Post New York Close

My GBP/USD short did not hits its target price, so I will move the TP for the position up to the new .236 and will fashion an entry order to add to the position, selling at the .764 should price reach that level, as I think that the short is still good. Rather, coincidentally, the price associated with the .236 has not changed substantially, so I will leave it alone as the TP.

As previously noted, the GBP/AUD short is a long-term position. I have looked at that chart and price is currently around break even. I am going to wait on fashioning an entry order to add to the position to see if the pair breaks higher or if it's going to retrace its advance, which may take a couple of days to develop.

Moving on to consider my other options for pairs to add into the mix, my choices appear somewhat limited. I am in GBP (2x), AUD (1x), and USD (1x). I don't want to double up too much on any one currency, so I think the focus should be on EUR, JPY, and possibly CAD. I am reluctant to wade into NZD short, so the kiwi is off the table, since I want to wait for my long-term NZD pair set-up's to occur instead (since they would be NZD long). I am also temporarily turned off by recent impulsive CAD movement and would prefer to wait until that currency settles a bit directionally before visiting it again. So, it seems like I should revisit last night's plays of short EUR/USD, short EUR/JPY, and possibly long AUD/CHF (which is basically the inverse of EUR/AUD short).

Out of those three, neither EUR/USD nor EUR/JPY looks particularly promising. Prices at the end of the New York close are both below the .236, meaning that they would have to retrace all the way to the .764 before my short would execute; the same would go for AUD/CHF, only it is currently above the .764, so it would have to retrace all the way to the .236 before the long would execute. I did consider a EUR/AUD short set-up, but that is another pair that has retraced below the .236.

As a last resort, I will look at USD/JPY and AUD/JPY (long only due to swap).

Although there is some equivocation as to direction between shorter and longer time frames with repsect to USD/JPY, I think it is in somewhat of a longer term range, that the price it is currently hovering around is the bottom of that range, and that it might be a fairly good place to go long (although lower toward 101.25 would be better).

AUD/JPY looks like it is in a bit of short-term consolidation (or at the very least, performing within a tighter range) than USD/JPY.

I can do one of two things here, do an OCO order for these or go long with both, and I think I'm going to choose the later, opting to go long with both of these in the event they hit their respective .236's, with their TP's being at the .764.

This will result in my being in GBP (2x), USD (2x), JPY (2x), and AUD (2x), assuming the USD/JPY and AUD/JPY longs execute.


Current Open Positions

GBP/USD Short at 1.71258/TP 1.70888 (Unchanged)
GBP/AUD Short at 1.82948/TP 1.81180 (Unchanged)


Pivot Point Based Entry Orders

GBP/USD Day Entry Order to Short at 1.71594/TP 1.70888(Addition to Current Position)
USD/JPY Day Entry Order to Buy at 101.522/TP 101.688
AUD/JPY Day Entry Order to Buy at 95.187/TP 95.492


Long-Term GTC Non-Pivot Point Based Entry Orders

EUR/AUD short at 1.48635
GBP/NZD short at 1.98507
EUR/NZD short at 1.61901

Usable Margin: 98.11% Usable Maintenance Margin: 96.21%
Current Position/Leg Size .5 x equity/.5% Margin

Other Notes

You can see that I have used very little of my margin. I will naturally consider increasing the leg size to greater than .5 x equity as I cycle through a couple of weeks of trades with that size. I recently increased the size from .375 times equity to .5, so I naturally want to see how that size feels in terms of intratrade drawdowns and such.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #13
  • Quote
  • Jul 15, 2014 6:01pm Jul 15, 2014 6:01pm
  •  jmflukeiii
  • Joined Oct 2011 | Status: Member | 1,418 Posts
Do you at any point decide it is time to exit a trade at a loss? Since you began trading your method, have you closed any trades at a loss? And by closing at a loss, I mean closing the entire position for a loss, not losing on one or two entries of a multi-entry position.

I have tried similar strategies in the past, but ultimately found that one loss, however one decides to take it, wiped out all of any gains made previously. Nonetheless, it was nice winning 99% of the time for weeks and months on end; perhaps I was doing something wrong.

Thanks -
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
 
 
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Edited 7:04pm Jul 15, 2014 6:01pm | Edited 7:04pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Quoting merquise
Disliked
So basically you are working with micro lots (10c per pip) on a 10k account, right?
Ignored
Exactly. My lot sizes are somewhat ridiculously small (this week, I just bumped it up from 3k to 4k per leg of the trade). I used to trade primarily equities, so moving over to forex is somewhat of an adjustment.

I figured I would start out small in terms of lot size and then increase it once I became comfortable with how the intratrade drawdowns were going and saw how positions that I could tolerate at the same time using a particular lot size. It's looking right now that 5 pairs max is a good rule of thumb, especially if you make a concerted effort to avoid weighting the open trades toward a singular currency. That's why I look at what I've got open and what's not represented in that mix and choose to focus on unrepresented currencies for considering trades.

But, in keeping stats on the Usable Margin/Usable Maintenance Margin percentages I'm using, it's probably safe to assume that the leg size could be more like 1% than the .5% I'm currently at, which is not particularly aggressive.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #15
  • Quote
  • Edited 7:15pm Jul 15, 2014 6:49pm | Edited 7:15pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Quoting jmflukeiii
Disliked
Do you at any point decide it is time to exit a trade at a loss? Since you began trading your method, have you closed any trades at a loss? And by closing at a loss, I mean closing the entire position for a loss, not losing on one or two entries of a multi-entry position. I have tried similar strategies in the past, but ultimately found that one loss, however one decides to take it, wiped out all of any gains made previously. Nonetheless, it was nice winning 99% of the time for weeks and months on end; perhaps I was doing something wrong. Thanks...
Ignored
When I first started doing things this way, I closed a number of them out for losses on the net position. I attribute that primarily to a lack of experience, impatience, and periodic panic as to where a trade was going. Point in fact, I almost closed out that NZD/USD short position for a loss on that net position, just because the swap was sucking so hard at the limited gains I wanted to achieve. However, a little patience (and confidence that my short was good) paid off.

The thing I like to emphasize with anything like this is that you need to assume that you will need to take multiple positions in a pair in order to make the net position profitable. And that is why the leg size is intentionally small. Say, for example, that you need to take 5 positions over time in a pair in order to make it net profitable (which I have had to do on occasion; this is, in fact, the max number of positions I have taken in a pair before realizing a net gain of some kind). Keeping the leg size small allows you to do this without, at the same time, committing a large percentage of your margin to do so and without panicking intratrade about the drawdown. This is why using a more ample lot size (like 5 x equity or 5% per leg) would probably eventually kill my equity. In the alternative, you can look at it from the perspective that you should keep the leg sizes small enough so that your entire position with this kind of system is not more than what you'd risk on a trade using traditional methodologies and rules of thumb (no more than 1% per open trade; no more than 10% for all open trades).

Also, examining closely as to whether you should add to the position at a particular point is critical. You don't just want to mechanically add to the position; you want to make sure the set-up is still valid or, if you've made a mistake with the initial entry, add when it is most advantageous to do so. This might require you to be in the trade longer than you'd like. For example, if the initial leg executes, but fails to hit the TP the first day, and then you add to the position at the appropriate pivot point the second day (which executes) and price still doesn't hit your TP, then you should probably step back from the trade, reevaluate the direction, and wait for a more advantageous entry point, which may not occur until the following day or the day after that or even the day after that. This may require you to dig other tools out of your tool box: is it in a channel? is it moving to a new range? is there a longer-term S/R level in play? is it breaking out?

Here's a good example of that: the entry of the first leg of the GBP/NZD trade below was awful and it moved against me -- significantly. I didn't close it out. I waited. And waited. And waited far longer than I wanted to for price to top out before adding to the position, ultimately realizing a fairly good gain on the net position:

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Certainly, the traditional trader would think that this is a stupid way of doing things. Why not just let the first leg stop out and then wait for a better entry point? Well, because if there's anything I am particularly bad at, it is figuring out a good point to make a good entry (as is obvious from the above example) and a good point to exit, especially if a trade goes against me. Do you panic and bail now at market? Or do you wait and attempt to bail at a better price? Ugh. Moreover, the other, related shortcoming I have is that my difficulty in setting a stop and a target price and just leaving them alone once the trade has executed.

That being said, I've only starting piddling around with doing things this way since the beginning of May (which I don't think is statistically significant). Only time will tell ... . Also, we're in a particularly low volatility market. What will happen when things get a little more jumpy?
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #16
  • Quote
  • Jul 15, 2014 7:01pm Jul 15, 2014 7:01pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Also, the GBP/NZD example above is a stark example of one of the pairs that can move violently and is more amenable to traditional, long-term trade set-up's that will take greater advantage of this pair's movement. A system of this nature, which takes advantage of the fact that pairs are in ranges 70% of the time, is best confined to less volatile pairs (although I have, from time to time, inadvisably traded the "widow-maker" (GBP/JPY) with it as well), which I will avoid going forward.

I would say that EUR/NZD is another one of those pairs that I won't trade this way; this is why I have a traditional short from a particular long-term Fib level for this pair and for GBP/NZD.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #17
  • Quote
  • Edited 1:23am Jul 16, 2014 12:51am | Edited 1:23am
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Asian Sesh

My AUD longs (AUD/JPY (which executed earlier) and GBP/AUD) are looking a bit tattered ... .

That's okay; I'm a patient guy.

Also, it appears that a number of others have attempted this method in the past (see "Similar Threads" on the left sidebar). It appears that these threads are all defunct and haven't posted in ages. I can only assume that these traders failed or are millionaires living on their own private island; unfortunately, it is most likely the former.

See you at the beginning of the New York; GBP promises to be frisky with upcoming employment data ... .
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #18
  • Quote
  • Jul 16, 2014 1:20am Jul 16, 2014 1:20am
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
Moved TP on GBP/AUD short to 1.82118 (the .236 pivot point). This was to be a long-term non-pivot point based system trade, although I would welcome the pips if I could hit this particular TP (>80 pips). I was frankly surprised that the entry order executed, since I originally thought that it might take a couple of weeks for the set-up to occur.

With this particular trade, though, I'm looking to add a position if it fails a retest of the 1.0 Fib shown on this chart and retraces; if it blows through that, I'll reexamine where the next level of resistance is and wait before considering the addition of positions:

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Size: 204 KB
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
  • Post #19
  • Quote
  • Jul 16, 2014 8:26am Jul 16, 2014 8:26am
  •  jmflukeiii
  • Joined Oct 2011 | Status: Member | 1,418 Posts
Quoting ZebraSquirl
Disliked
{quote} For example, if the initial leg executes, but fails to hit the TP the first day, and then you add to the position at the appropriate pivot point the second day (which executes) and price still doesn't hit your TP, then you should probably step back from the trade, reevaluate the direction, and wait for a more advantageous entry point, which may not occur until the following day or the day after that or even the day after that.
Ignored
This is what I am asking about specifically. Sometimes trades never come back. How do you decide when to exit those first two entries? Or you don't exit them, you just wait for another advantageous time to build the position?
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
 
 
  • Post #20
  • Quote
  • Edited 12:00pm Jul 16, 2014 11:11am | Edited 12:00pm
  •  ZebraSquirl
  • Joined May 2014 | Status: My Ideas Are Just That -- Ideas | 4,473 Posts
My general rule is don't exit unless you're at least break even. However, I do want to get something out of every net position, even if it's just five pips. I am comfortable with the fact that I might have to wait to add for a few days, especially where I've got a positive swap working in my favor. It is possible that I will run into a situation going forward where I have to hold something for several weeks, but that hasn't happened yet. Looking at even some of the more high performing folks' Trade Explorers, it appears that this is not an uncommon practice.
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
 
 
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