Jacko's Forex House of Pleasure and Pain

Of course it's too late as far as Jacko is concerned, but in case any newcomers are reading this, here are some basic ways to protect yourself from this type of situation ever occurring in the future:

1. Make sure that any trading account is in your name, and that only you have the authority to withdraw money. The 'manager' is granted a limited Power of Attorney to trade funds on your behalf. Oanda is an example of a br0ker who offers this type of arrangement. Using the br0ker as a third party to enforce these conditions is a sensible precaution.

2. Decide how much drawdown you're willing to accept, and fund the account accordingly. If, for example, you have $50k to invest but want to reconsider your options should drawdown reach 10%, then put $5k in the trading account, and the other $45k in an interest bearing on-call account. That safeguards you against unnecessary loss, either from incompetent trading, or should the br0ker (or his underwriting bank) ever go belly-up. The manager still sizes positions as if there was $50k in the account. If the $5k is lost, you have the option of either wiring additional funds, or ending the arrangement.

3. Make sure that commissions are based on performance only, i.e. on X% of profits above the previous account high, as opposed to flat management fees. This gives the manager the greatest possible incentive to perform for YOU. Of course he may have an IB-type arrangement with the br0ker where he is paid a percentage that's based on transaction volume. If you feel that he is exploiting this situation, by trading inordinately frequently without results that justify it, then you can always terminate the arrangement and close the account.

The important thing is that YOU remain in control of the arrangement. If the manager isn't willing to abide by your terms, then simply look elsewhere.

Audited statements and legal agreements are ostensibly worthless, as past performance offers no guarantees, and statements can easily be the result of forgery, selective account posting, or phony MM practices; while legal agreements carry only as much weight as you have the resources to enforce them. The steps that I described are simple, proactive and self-governing.

Does anybody have any other ideas?

Hi WaveTop,

Are you 7thSignalTrader over the dailyfx forum? If so, why didn't you come here earlier to destory this thread?

http://forexforums.dailyfx.com/threads/2373-only-people-live-trades-jackos-pleasure-pain-conversations-388.html

cheers,

Thanks wwwin for the link.

WaveTop,




Where you banned on the dailyfx forum because you were profitable ?

nope u covered it all..however i would urge people to simply lean to trade, invest in yourself..its not an impossible task if u are prepared to study..

i cant help but think when jacko started a thread "where are u now" or something to that effect..how evil can some people be

Nav how you been my friend?

One thing with oanda's setup, you have to trust the manager, as they have the power to take as much fees as they like, aka, the whole account, I asked oanda about it, and they said yea, make sure you trust your manager. Maybe they changed this, but about a year ago I know it was like the above.

I know brokers like IB do it more safely, where it's signed and agreed on.

Many thanks for the info. There's also an Australian-based br0ker called GO Markets who offer a similar arrangement. The client is even better protected in their case, as the manager can not withdraw his commissions from the client's account. This must be done as a separately organized transaction.

It is never a good thing to enter a trading agreement with a FX "manager." I don't care who they say they are or what they can do.

The only options you should consider are:

 

1. Learn to trade.
2. Give your money to an established well known/audited Hedge fund.
3. Do nothing and keep your money.

100% agree it's odd how many people will blindly give there money over with no results! A print out of a MT4 account is not proof as that can be manipulated since it's an HTML file. I do agree with the NFA on this enforcement for requiring all fund managers to be registered CTA's.

Consolidating replies here:

1) Yes. I posted under 7thSignalTrader on DailyFx, but 7thSignalTrader was banned, for attempting to blow-up Jack's thread. Why? Because he attempted to trash my original Trade Journal which was posted under TurbineTrader.

2) Jack'O approached me, and asked me if I was interested in trading with his capital. His statement to me was that he wanted to know if I was "interested in a business transaction....using his capital." I told him no and that I was not interested in being a money manager. He said, oh well, "your loss." From that point forward on DailyFx, Jack'O began attacking my posts, whenever and virtually wherever I made them.

3) My TurbineTrader thread was research based. Back then, I used to like to conduct end-phase system design online and in the public. It was a thread designed to inspire newbies to want to do more homework, show people what could be done using Excel, to post trades and do follow-ups on live trade profiles and to talk about certain technical aspects of the system I was developing at the time. After being constantly attacked by mental midgets, who later became Jack's shadow warriors in his thread, my thread was trashed and shut down by FXCM Moderators.

And, for what. For posting trades Following up on live trade calls in real-time. Discussing the parts of my system that I was able to talk about. And, having to deal with a bunch children posing as traders, who had nothing else better to do than trash a perfectly fine Trade Journal.

4) I challenged Jack'O, to a public competition from within his own thread, after he and his Trojan Horses trashed my Journal. I began doing audits on some of SickO's trades and posting audited results in real-time inside his thread. I began questioning Jack and his tactics of changing the trade after the fact. I unleashed a Torrent of unrelenting posts directed at SickO's false trades.

Eventually, his army grew even stronger, despite the fact that he was altering trade results in full plain view of everyone watching. That's why I say that SickO had help from the inside at DailyFx. Why would they close my journal, which was being run very cleanly. I posted orderly and easy to follow trade profiles that were detailed and not lacking for information about what I was doing. I updated each profile in real-time and I stood by the results. Yet, SickO's thread started off like it was originated in a back ally Bar someplace, just read the thread for yourselves.

5) I abandoned DailyFx at that point. Eventually, I came back to do some more end-phase public proofing work on my system, but by then, the minions from SickO's thread would always interrupt the work I was trying to get done, preventing people form learning what they could based on what I was able to talk about in public, regarding my system. As I defended 7thSignalTrader, by launching back at the idiots, 7thSignal then got banned. So, I logged back on as OrangeDolphin and began posting landmine trades inside SickO's thread. A couple of his dumb minions in that thread jumped on one or two of those trades and they blew up in their collective face. I then began harassing Jack'O and I took on all of his Demons at the same time. It was a mess. Threats were made - I think I made a couple myself - I mean, things really blew up.

Eventually, I realized it was not worth the hassle and never went back to DailyFx after that.

But, I was in there exposing Sick'O to the light of day. People just did not want to hear it. The man could have declared himself Satan incarnate and these people would have eaten it up - they loved him. I've never seen anything like it before in the world of online trading. I had nailed some of his bogus trades dead to rights - yet, people would STILL come to his defense. It was amazing.

Years later, I find out that Jack'O was indeed the fraud that I thought he was. I'm almost 100% certain that Jack'O never had such a difficult time with anyone in the online trading community, than he had with me. We got into it, to the point where he would no longer reply to anything I said. His minions from Hell, would do that. Thew would gang up like a pack of Demonic Wolves and attack, insult, lie, cheat - whatever they could do to defend Sick'O.

Again, I've never seen anything like it at all. I still believe that FXCM was somehow supporting the Guy. I mean, my Journal was run cleanly, and they banned me for defending myself? What? Hello? Yet, they allowed a guy who was doing a bunch of false trading, to run the place like he owned DailyFx.

None of it made any darn sense to me. Like I said, I wonder if Sick'O had anything at all to do with Boris and Lien leaving FXCM when they did. I will always wonder about that until I find out otherwise.

Weren't you banned from Forex Factory long before Jacko came to Forex factory? It was before my time, but as I recall it was merlin himself who banned you for threatening people with violence. Now you are back under a multi-username?

I guess what I am saying in general to anyone. Now we have this guy who was banned and is just as big a fraud according to Forex Factory and DailyFX from 2005-2006 as Jacko is. (BTW, I fell for Jacko's BS as well, so I am an idiot also) So the moral here is do not trust anyone on the internet. There is no way to know their intentions or even who they are.

PS, I read all of your old posts when I had access to them, (you were also here under another username, after you got banned as 7thsignal). How is that fighter jet you own, or did you trade it in for a newer model?

Learn to trade. That makes the assumption that I can achieve a better return than everybody else, and that I have the time, desire and aptitude to reach such a standard.

Give your money to an established well known/audited Hedge fund. Fair enough, but the returns are mediocre, and I like to have a small part of my investment portfolio in the high return/higher risk area.

Do nothing and keep your money. Return = 0%.

Yes, that is my assumption. There are no super humans, if someone else can do it, the potential is there for all. If you don't have the time, desire or aptitude, then you cannot be in a more dangerous place on the web.

There are high performing hedge funds with a long track record for those willing to look.

0% > -__%

Don't know why Wave Top was banned here. Too bad he wasn't here doing what he did to Jacko at Dailyfx, otherwise his 'attacks' on Jacko (like proving the guy altering his trade result) would have waved a big red flag for many of us who were gullible enough to fall for his BS. Reading some of Wave Top's recent posts in FF tells me the guy is quite intelligent. So I would take his attacks on Jacko more seriously than someones who just blasted Jacko w/o proof or sound like a kid. Come to think of it, why Jacko was allowed to continue his follies with so much craps for so long in both Dailyfx and FF is something beyond me. Honestly, if he did not enjoy such celebrity status, many would have subjected him to more stringent scrutiny and more due diligence. By the way, come to think of it, could Jacko have planted many of those poster names long before, ready to use them to defend him or attack those who dare to challenge him? It would be nice to trace these people's IP. HK Police surely will want to know what IPs Jacko had used here and in Dailyfx.

You are doing it again. There are some credibility/due diligence anomalies with Wave Top. yet you've already elevate his status in your mind.

BTW, using multiple identities as been a long time tested strategy for the crooks. It is used effectively on both sides of the fence. Testimonials add allure for the simple, and the outside, or inside, attacker play to gauge current "business" strength for future ramp ups -- they also provide great advertising.

I completely agree here. fxbillie, obviously you did not take the time to read that thread at DailyFX, or you would have seen this 7signal claimed to own a fighter jet and was going to go and take out Jacko. This guy is in my opinion, not mentally sound. I mean you really should not be falling for this again just like falling off a horse. I hate to say it, but it seems like you are being lazy here and that is only going to hurt you financially long term.

It is sad when predators like this guy show up and pretend to be a White Knight. There are no Gurus...

PS, Just in this thread:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=4100329&postcount=8

This guy threatens someone with veiled violence.

Note; I am absolutely NOT offering trading advice to anyone and am not suggesting in anyway people follow what I do.

Couldn't have imagined this place is so dangerous. Nevertheless, as a rule of thumb. Get only free stuffs from FF, and don't send a cent to anyone. This should be a scam proof strategy.

Thank you guys for the caution. But considering that I am someone who had traded 8+ years and had 1000% return during the subprime period, I don't think I will let others trade my money ever again, particularly those from the internet world. I have explained why I let Jacko trade my money even when my result was better than him during that period (and he admitted that). But this won't happen again. Thanks goodness.

Wave Top is a person of interest to us investors as he might have something to share if the HK Police needs to find out anything unusual about Jacko. So I read up on some of his recent posts on FF, like post 214 in this one: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=4085620#post4085620

The writing there does not suggest a lunatic. I also read up the 7thSignal posts in Dailyfx and witnessed the 'bloody nasty' battles with Jacko & his drones. He had to face numerous personal verbal attacks. So I did my home work before making my comments. I don't know if he was that serious to harm people, perhaps just bluffling due to the constant nasty posts thrown at him from Jacko camp.

I don't believe I elevate his status as a credible person. He might as well be. But no one can be easily be trusted on Internet after Jacko. Purely on the basis of his intelligent writings, and his relentless battles with Jacko, I would think his arguments against Jacko is more credible than pointless & groundless attack like those seen lately against another celebrity (you know who). Proving Jacko's trades as bogus has been done by others, but he probably did more homework to unveil Jacko's fraud than most due to his bitter experience with Jacko and his drones.

But thank you again for the caution.

Maybe this (http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=4104659&postcount=14567) will be a lead for some of you guys who were ripped off.

You FF guys are reading like a bunch of paranoid geriatric cases. Can any of you post a link to anything WaveTop posted here or anywhere else, regardless of the nick used, that spells "veiled threat"? Challenging someone who is online, lying about their trades and turning otherwise good threads into bad threads, seems more to me like a someone defending themselves from BEING attacked, not the one doing the attacking.

It never ceases to amaze me how people consistently get it wrong in the online trading world. Not just in their trading - blowing accounts wide open, etc., but in their ability to properly discern good from bad, by being able to read in context what has actually been written. Instead, FAR too many so-called online traders, are too busy reading into a post, what was never there in the first place.

You then end up doing something really foolish and unbleevable, like banning the people who are actually a help to traders, while allowing people like Jack'O, to run unfettered with the wind, while doing as much damage along the way as possible.

You folks, including you moderators, need to either decide that you want a forum that designed for traders, or that you want a forum that is designed for traitors. Now, which one is it?

Someone who is defending themselves and their thread from being attacked by a bunch of clueless people, is not the threat. The real threat, are those people, forums, moderators, paid shills and the like, who continually coddle bad brokers and bad attitudes that continually take good threads and then them into bad threads.

Seems to me that the entire online community has lost its focus on what's important. I've been a highly successful trader for almost 8 years now. I've moved out of the full time retail ranks almost 3 years go (not quite a full three yet). And, I did it despite the online BS you continually run into with people who only know how to say: It can't be done. Tell me it can't be done - I'm living proof it can be done. It takes hard work, dedication, focus, commitment, and a strong sense of desire. It also takes some intelligence and an ability to recognize when something does not work, or is no longer working.

Some of these forums have become like political parties. Your only invited, as long as you hold a particular personal belief, or are "like" someone who is in control of the forum. Good luck with that. Those kinds of forums never develop into their true potential, because they are too inbred. If you don't think like, or act like the people who run them, then you aren't allowed on the forum. Ultimately, that kind of forum will never see its true purpose.

If you are going to have a political forum, then SAY SO. Stop pussyfooting around with the concept, and just do it. Otherwise, stop acting like the United States Congress, by regulating common sense into the ground. In every single free country I know of, self-defense is not against the law. That all changes for some very odd reason when you step into a trading forum. All of a sudden, in a trading forum the slogan is: Defense yourself, go to jail.

You can kid yourselves all day long and think that you are doing traders a service, by operating this way, but this is probably one of the primary reasons why very successful traders just stay away from the silliness anymore. I'm pretty much at that point myself. I've been online now for 10 years total, trying to help people think differently about the way they view raw market data. I started out just sharing my ideas with total strangers - long before there were java enabled xml/dhtml web based forums. I was doing this when all we had were raw ideas and E-mail, as communication tools.

People used to be FAR MORE interested in trading back then. There was precious little personal ego being put on display by anyone. Everyone was eager to learn. But, in my time, there weren't that many people out there willing to teach. I had to scrape ideas together on my own back then, but even so, I was willing to discuss my hard work with others. I did not OWE that to anyone. People also seemed a lot more respectful of someone willing to openly share what they had learned, without some request for payment, like a lot of people do today.

Each time I'd start sharing my ideas, the online trading "police" automatically declared that something was "being sold." "What are you selling?" "What's for sale?" "What are you Vending here on this forum?" When not once, had anything ever been offered to them. It was like people drink the koolaid, long before any koolaid is even offered - amazing! No one ever offers them anything - ever, yet they just "KNOW" that something is for sale - rather than actually READING the posts AS THEY ARE WRITTEN.

I have a couple friends from the old days of learning how to trade, who successfully made it through to the other side and are now outstanding technicians of the market. They won't wast their time on forums anymore and they often ask me why do I still do it - why do I waste my time. I always tell them to just remember what it was like when they were babes in the woods - utterly clueless about what they were doing, and to think about how many experienced traders volunteered to offer them fresh ideas? That's why I did it.

I, quite frankly could care less what the naysayers conclude - they are naysayer, what the heck to they know about anything in life, let alone trading. My concern, has always been for the Newbie, because I remember what it was like being one myself years ago. Yet, it was this forum, where Newbies and supposedly Experienced traders alike were hurt by the likes of Jack'O. And, yet you foolishly ban someone who actually helped to exposed the guy. That's utterly hopeless.

Maybe I should start listening to my peers in this business, who continually ask me why I continue to waste my time. Some of you guys need to change your attitude, so you can change your results.

I'm not a Professional Moderator, or Professional Online Trading "Investigator," or Professional Online Trading Police Officer.

I'm a Professional Trader, who tried to warn people about a real potential threat, while the "Trader Police" missed the opportunity because they failed to read what was actually posted by the guy, and were too busy reading into posts, what was never written. The sooner you figure that little equation out, the better off you will be.

Stop reading INTO posts what's NOT there. That's one of your biggest failures.