Menu
Sister Sites

Options

Bookmark Thread

First Page First Unread Last Page Last Post

Print Thread

Similar Threads

How Do You Compound Your Account While Paying Yourself? 22 replies

I dare you show your statement 13 replies

Twoblink tweaks and mods 61 replies

Vegas 4 hour Tunnel mods 4 replies

Attachments: First-Strike & One-Night-Stand users, show yourself and your mods, if you dare!!!
Exit Attachments

First-Strike & One-Night-Stand users, show yourself and your mods, if you dare!!!

  • Post #81
  • Quote
  • Edited 10:45am Jan 18, 2009 10:31am | Edited 10:45am
Trading is just like anything else in life. There are those who trade to earn a living and there are those who like the idea of being recognized as a trader, so they learn everything they can about trading but never actually trade, for whatever reason, and try and impress people on forums with their knowledge.

I use to go to real estate investment club meetings. They were full of people who could tell me every reason why a particular deal would never work. They could talk real estate jargon that I did not even understand. Yet they had either never made the plunge into actually investing, or they had and were not profitable doing it. So they got their fix by going to meetings and trying to impress people with how much they knew. I got my fix by investing in real estate, figuring out ways to solve the problems that came up, and earning a little money out of it.

First-Strike and One Night Stand are systems. You can back test them all you want, and figure out every possible reason why they will fail, and claim the people pushing the systems are fibbing on results. Or you can forward test with real money, deal with the problems that arise, make adjustments based on all that knowledge you have, and see if it can be profitable.

It's amazing to me how some of the folks on here got to 10v status. I guess if it's a indicator of knowledge than maybe it's not broken. If it's supposed to indicate people who earn a living in the market, well I don't know if it's working as intended.

Knowledge is not power. Correctly applied knowledge is power.

Ah yes, I forgot to mention I am going to be using these to methods on my live account for the next few months, with a lower adjusted risk. I might have something positive to add then but if not I will keep quiet.
Who would you be referring to in this thread? Please, don't be coy.

Quoting Jimmy Jones
It's amazing to me how some of the folks on here got to 10v status. I guess if it's a indicator of knowledge than maybe it's not broken. If it's supposed to indicate people who earn a living in the market, well I don't know if it's working as intended.
  • Post #83
  • Quote
  • Edited 2:11pm Jan 18, 2009 11:14am | Edited 2:11pm
Quoting tdion



I just went to infiniteyield.com again and almost wretched when I saw the title of the site....
"Guaranteed profits" Who does this guy think he is? What's my guarantee, Joel? If I lose money, will you reimburse me. I get sick of websites that feed that crap to the general public.

A proper title would be "High probability of losing your ass."
You're right about the site I stand corrected.
  • Post #84
  • Quote
  • Edited 7:14pm Jan 18, 2009 11:25am | Edited 7:14pm
www.infiniteyield.com is Joel's site, and the title is "Dangerous Secrets that Guarantee AUTOMATIC Forex Profits" .... You will see the One Night Stand backtest....
@ et_phonehome_2: The rule you posted on your graph for the GBP/USD sell are no longer available. The "50 pips" rule is the one used at the beginning of the system. The new entries are taking into account the market's volatility, and in my opinion are a great upgrade, because one could not use the same value for all the parities, all the time. So, please read the FSP's rules carefully. Also, I don't see where the problem is with your example: the fact that closing out the position at the end of the week and loosing 200 pips from a virtually profit? Well, I'll tell you simple: this is forex! Even Joel, on his blog mentioned many times about the ocurring of this cases. Fell free to change the exits of the system, but keep it's core.

Quoting Jimmy Jones
Ah yes, I forgot to mention I am going to be using these to methods on my live account for the next few months, with a lower adjusted risk. I might have something positive to add then but if not I will keep quiet.

I'm taking these system to demo for a couple of months in order to make myself a general picture of it. I'm currently forward testing it for 2 weeks and the results are great. The thing which I like most is the so called "profit/effort" ratio implied by the strategy. I made some modifications about the parities I trade, and the way I manage my open trades, but as I said the core of the system is the same. Let's hear only the best about this strategy keeping in the same time our objectivity.
A good trade is when I Break Even. A great trade is when I Take Profit.
Yes, some people will just see the title with the word GUARANTEE and start trading it without performing any tests whatsoever. Anyhow, in the link, this is what it said as shown in the image....

Tdion is just trying to point out that one must be smart about performing backtesting / forward testing and not just accept anything that is posted here or in any advertisement of systems without performing one's due diligence. Do your homework....

The funny thing is that there are many systems posted here and elsewhere where individuals have posted good results which I cannot reproduce. Like they say, you can present a system to several individuals with the same exact trading rules, and the results will never be identical, you will have winners and losers.
Attached Image
Whois on infiniteyield.com:

Registrant:
Archimedes Investments
Rensink, Joel
2308 E. 42nd St.
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55406
US

I had not seen that part of the website. Fairly indistinguishable with a million other forex sites trying to sell some crap.

But seriously who cares if he is full of shit anyway? And if you think he is then why spend any more time thinking about it?

Bullshit is far from uncommon in this arena, revealing the existence of some more should not surprise anyone.
Quoting tdion
Yes, we are on the same page. Apparently he uses Tradestation, which I am not familiar with.... but
You're in luck. I use tradestation.

I used tradestation to test his strategy and am able to replicate the graph he publishes by using inaccurate data.

Quoting jtrade
tdion - you go on about back testing accuracy and yet you have difficulty reading a website... there is no guarantee in Joel's title.. there is a Google related link to a system seller's website, who offers some form of guarantee - nothing to do with Joel. If you actually bothered to read Joel's blog, you would see he makes no guarantee. So that' the second inaccurate statement you've posted in just a few posts.
I love how people just assume everyone has just 1 website to their name. The website you guys follow to get updates on his trade is his BLOG. Infiniteyields.com is also his website. In fact, you can link there from his blog if i'm not wrong.

Quote
So let's review what's happening on this thread : several people share their real profits, derived from someone giving something for free. Others who are not trading the method bash it completely saying that it either doesn't work at all or not in all years or not long term... my goodness, there are a lot of very angry failed traders out there !

There is a trading fundamental : to trade any method well you must make it your own. If it is a mechanical method, you must test it, backwards, forwards and preferably both and satisfy yourself that it...

I'm not going to argue with the profitability of this statement for the last 2 years. I've already said it was very profitable. What I'm trying to point out is, outside of these 2 years, his claims to profit are questionable at best, deliberately fake at worst.

Practically any random strategy using that kind of dataset will be profitable under tradestation. Given incomplete data to do it's testing, tradestation has a habit of assuming you buy at the low of the bar and sell at the high.

Quoting Jimmy Jones
First-Strike and One Night Stand are systems. You can back test them all you want, and figure out every possible reason why they will fail, and claim the people pushing the systems are fibbing on results. Or you can forward test with real money, deal with the problems that arise, make adjustments based on all that knowledge you have, and see if it can be profitable.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Backtesting is important. In fact, it is a system's trial by fire. If the strategy doesn't work in the backtest, there's no need to forward test. Forward testing doesn't reveal the effectiveness of a strategy. It reveals the hidden problems. Unless you're willing to forward test for a decade before you start trading, i'm afraid you're going about testing strategies the wrong way.

For eg, there was this strategy that my company had last year. It was fantastic in the backtests. Before you ask, yes the results were accurate. Forward testing showed otherwise though. The problem? The tests we made were assuming we could exit at the exact price at the close of a bar. The tracking errors were bad enough we scrapped a good strategy.
  • Post #89
  • Quote
  • Edited 12:01pm Jan 18, 2009 11:56am | Edited 12:01pm
@et_phonehome_2 Also, I see some things which have no necessary connection with the Joel's strategy, but are bad understand by you: the value for 1 pip for the direct majors is the same for all of them: EUR/USD, GBP/USD, AUD/USD and so on, beeing given by the ammount of your trade size. The leverage has the role to define your magin requirements, and that's all. Has nothing to do with the pip value. I'm thinking if you were live trading, you would have know that. I'm telling you this because I have a live mini account with a 400:1 leverage.
A good trade is when I Break Even. A great trade is when I Take Profit.
Quoting birdt
Whois on infiniteyield.com:

Registrant:
Archimedes Investments
Rensink, Joel
2308 E. 42nd St.
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55406
US

I had not seen that part of the website. Fairly indistinguishable with a million other forex sites trying to sell some crap.

But seriously who cares if he is full of shit anyway? And if you think he is then why spend any more time thinking about it?

Bullshit is far from uncommon in this arena, revealing the existence of some more should not surprise anyone.
The reason we take the effort to point out bullshit is the same reason people give for sharing strategies. We're sharing our work. We took the time to prove or disprove a strategy so it can either gain or lose credibility. That saves people from falling into traps.

Not all good intent come in the form of compliments. If you're making money from the strategy at present, power to you. Our tests also show you should be making money. But when you start going on an extended bad streak, perhaps you need to remember that our tests ALSO show that the good streak was an exception rather than the rule.
Quoting deathbait
The reason we take the effort to point out bullshit is the same reason people give for sharing strategies. We're sharing our work. We took the time to prove or disprove a strategy so it can either gain or lose credibility. That saves people from falling into traps.

Not all good intent come in the form of compliments. If you're making money from the strategy at present, power to you. Our tests also show you should be making money. But when you start going on an extended bad streak, perhaps you need to remember that our tests ALSO show that the...
nice post
Living the adventure in my head.
Quoting Cornelius
[font=Comic Sans MS][size=3][color=Blue]@et_phonehome_2 Also, I see some things which have no necessary connection with the Joel's strategy, but are bad understand by you: the value for 1 pip for the direct majors is the same for all of them: EUR/USD, GBP/USD, AUD/USD and so on, beeing given by the ammount of your trade size. The leverage has the role to define your magin requirements, and that's all. Has nothing to do with the pip value. I'm thinking if you were live trading, you would have know that. I'm telling you this because I have a live...
Understood, I was just pointing out as an example. There are many factors to take into consideration when choosing a pair, the leverage one has, the margin, etc. What I posted was not meant to be a catch all for all the different possibilities out there.

I have been trading live with First Strike also with the GBPUSD only - had only one losing trade - got stopped out; how many positions I can enter all depends upon my leverage and margin. I do not see too many brokers offering 400:1 leverage, but I do see some out there. I trade with 200:1 leverage, and the only thing I care about is about having more winners than losers - that is what makes one live or die, not how much money.

********************************************************
Thanks for pointing that out for all to see since I do not want to present
the wrong information.
********************************************************
So far in all this backtesting going on here all I have seen is how this system is not performing according to the claims made by Joel........
Now here is a couple of things to consider......

1.... just how reliable is MT4 as a back tester? I have heard many complaints regarding this.

2 Do you know which broker Joel is using to trade FSP on? (by the way it is Oanda)
Are you considering the TF the broker uses?
Are you using the start time that joel uses? which happens to be 00:00 Central Standard Time.

These things all make a difference in the outcome of your back test.

I ask this because I have not seen these fairly important issues addressed.
Same Whore .... Different Dress
You know what? I'm through with this thread. This all started when I ran my own backtests, and concluded this strategy wasn't right FOR ME. (Please read my first few posts)

I am not going to expend effort trashing Joel. William, to answer your questions... I consider myself an MT4 "power user." The tests are right.

The only thing that might be off is the timezone, and I will need to double check that. Somehow I don't think it will matter at all.... but if so, you will see me eating a ton of crow!
Quoting tdion
http://www.infiniteyield.com/

What is the first word you see highlighted in gigantic red letters in the title of the site?

Care to retract your statement about my inaccuracies?



Jtrade, please do not preach to me. I have been here a year longer than you have. I have a Masters Degree in Software Engineering, and am extremely miticulous with my approach to backtesting and concluding the validity of systems. I have been known to make a mistake sometimes, but I am no "angry trader" ... simply a realist.
So sorry, tdion, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

This thread refers to the blog account over here http://infiniteyieldforex.blogspot.com/ . The OP invited DaBuschi & others to continue a discussion about variations on the blog method on this thread. You may be the life and soul of every party you attend, but you sure are a grumpy old man on this forum (it takes one to recognise one ).

geoffrod started this thread inviting others to post how they trade Joel's InfiniteYield Forex Challenge account. My comment was essentially to point out that many people seemed to prefer to bash, rather than contribute, sometimes stating that they are "bashing to be kind" to prevent poor. innocent traders from using the free signals to make even more money...

I apologise for my sarcasm - it's nothing personal, tdion, deathbait and others, but you get my drift. A new trading week lies ahead, so I wish good trading to you all.
Did you ever play the computer game Lemmings?

Deathbait and I did not want to see you walking off the cliff.... that's why we've kindly warned everyone.

By the way, I don't know why you've brought up the website again. We've already determined that the blog and the commercial site are both a part of the same operation.
Quoting tdion
Did you ever play the computer games Lemmings?

Deathbait and I did not want to see you walking off the cliff.... that's why we've kindly warned everyone.

By the way, I don't know why you've brought up the website again. We've already determined that the blog and the commercial site are both a part of the same operation.
oh, dear.....

Edit : maybe all posts on Sundays should be ignored... (& I'm not excluding myself)
Quoting jtrade
So sorry, tdion, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

This thread refers to the blog account over here http://infiniteyieldforex.blogspot.com/ . The OP invited DaBuschi & others to continue a discussion about variations on the blog method on this thread. You may be the life and soul of every party you attend, but you sure are a grumpy old man on this forum (it takes one to recognise one ).
He's really not. They are two websites run by the same person : Joel. It should also be noted that they also promote the same strategies.

Quote
geoffrod started this thread inviting others to post how they trade Joel's InfiniteYield Forex Challenge account. My comment was essentially to point out that many people seemed to prefer to bash, rather than contribute, sometimes stating that they are "bashing to be kind" to prevent poor. innocent traders from using the free signals to make even more money...

I don't prefer to bash. I wish the results were real, I really do. Then I don't have to go looking for other strategies to test in search of the holy grail...because HIS results IS the holy grail.

But having sniffed out not only the fact that they aren't accurate, but also WHY they aren't accurate, it eats the hell out of me that there are people like you around who prefer to blind themselves(and others) rather than see the facts.

Yes, you would have made money if you traded with Joel the last two years. But that's as far as it goes. If you started trading with him from 2003, you would have experienced 3 REALLY dull years before the 2 recent exciting ones. And if you're looking for his pre 03 results for hope, I'm just pointing out they are inaccurate(read : overly optimistic)

Quote
I apologise for my sarcasm - it's nothing personal, tdion, deathbait and others, but you get my drift. A new trading week lies ahead, so I wish good trading to you all.

No you don't. You're just hiding your attacks behind an apology. It's supposed to make you sound like the good guy. I'm sorry for being harsh, but you see why I have to put you down; defending a strategy that relies on erroneous results can actually cause some people to lose money.

See how easy it is?
Quoting jlryan87
Another thing to note: he actually sold the proprietary pos. sizing algorithm to a South African firm for $10k. I do not make this up, it was in one of his posts long time ago.
Just a quick aside, I wouldn't pay 10 cents for any position sizing algorithm. Why? Because ultimately, all MM algorithms are created equal. (For an explanation, see my post here, and/or download any of the Excel spreadsheets from posts #31, #32 and #43 in this thread).

If a trader such as Joel is able to coincide his larger bets with winning trades, more often than not, then it's his forecasting ability (market knowledge) that's impressive, not the MM itself.
Quoting johnedoe
So far in all this backtesting going on here all I have seen is how this system is not performing according to the claims made by Joel........
Now here is a couple of things to consider......

1.... just how reliable is MT4 as a back tester? I have heard many complaints regarding this.

2 Do you know which broker Joel is using to trade FSP on?...
It doesn't matter what broker Joel is using to trade, because he's using simulated trades on tradestation to prove the reliability of his strategy. All floating variables can be removed by simply using tradestaion to replicate his strategy(which I'm sure everyone agrees are simple and easy to follow).

That's what I did.
0 traders viewing now