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Attachments: Anyone still trading Mouteki?
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Anyone still trading Mouteki?

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  • Post #1
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  • First Post: Dec 6, 2006 3:44am Dec 6, 2006 3:44am
  •  jumper
  • | Joined Sep 2006 | Status: Don't think. Just jump. | 534 Posts
Well I guess I have been missing in action at the forum for quite a while. So, is anyone still actively trading Mouteki?

Just thought I would mention that I have started reading the book by Thomas DeMark (TD) and even though I have barely started, it already seems clear that practically the whole Mouteki method was lifted from there.

The only apparent changes are that Mouteki is based on 4h TF and that a simplified 2:1 or 3:1 method was used to calculate stop loss. Since the former is more a matter of preference and the latter is not strictly adhered by MoutekiTrader (he uses largely fib, I think), it seems safe to say that Mouteki method is very similar to TD's.

Another minor tweak is the use of candle open instead of trendline break. But then again, TD's book introduced several other "filters" not mentioned under Mouteki. And of course the list of minor differences can be extended by e.g. TD preferring the use of level 1 TD points while Mouteki uses fractals/level 2 TD points.

All said, my post is not meant to imply that MoutekiTrader had plagiarised his ideas from someone else. History has shown us many cases where 2 or more geniuses can come up with the same idea even though they are worlds apart and have no contact with one another. It may well be that TD beat MoutekiTrader to writing a book. Only God knows. ;-)
I am JuMPeR. :party:
  • Post #2
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  • Dec 6, 2006 4:01pm Dec 6, 2006 4:01pm
  •  sirwolf
  • | Joined Aug 2006 | Status: Believe and Achieve Proverbs 16:3 | 725 Posts
I was doing good with Mouteki, but then it went south and I was getting stopped out and lost all virtual profits. SOmeone said my first 2 weeks were very Mouteki friendly. I was hoping that someone may have come up with some good filters.

I have been following the SDRC thread by Orange Roshan. A very good thread which I recommend. I wonder if the best of both methods was combined - they are both based on similar concepts
]
Believe and Achieve!
  • Post #3
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  • Dec 6, 2006 5:39pm Dec 6, 2006 5:39pm
  •  stevenali
  • | Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Future Indy | 304 Posts
i still trade mouteki...
but i use FIBB WEEKLY level to put my TP and SL
Simplicity your Life
  • Post #4
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  • Dec 7, 2006 1:03am Dec 7, 2006 1:03am
  •  jumper
  • | Joined Sep 2006 | Status: Don't think. Just jump. | 534 Posts
I must make a slight correction to my post.

After finishing the first chapter, I must say that even Mouteki's choice of using candle open is not really unique since this is somewhat TD's second qualifier.
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  • Post #5
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  • Dec 7, 2006 5:36am Dec 7, 2006 5:36am
  •  Zuke
  • | Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Member | 286 Posts
I use Mouteki/TD as part of my suite of strats for differing market conditions. The only "filter" I use is not taking the open of the candle, but waiting until it breaches the previous two candle levels. Along with my other strats, its working fine on the Scandi pairs, Cable and USD/CHF.
  • Post #6
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  • Dec 7, 2006 5:51am Dec 7, 2006 5:51am
  •  Jarret
  • | Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Member | 142 Posts
Hey jumper,


Still use if I see a good setup, used with PA and fibs....I think it is a good tool- glad I pick it up.
  • Post #7
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  • Dec 7, 2006 10:46am Dec 7, 2006 10:46am
  •  jumper
  • | Joined Sep 2006 | Status: Don't think. Just jump. | 534 Posts
Cool...
I am JuMPeR. :party:
  • Post #8
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  • Dec 13, 2006 12:30am Dec 13, 2006 12:30am
  •  VyNNeR
  • | Joined Oct 2006 | Status: Member | 166 Posts
i only trade in on demo for now .. looks good to me but too many false breakout
  • Post #9
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  • Dec 13, 2006 1:22am Dec 13, 2006 1:22am
  •  parlenk
  • | Joined Mar 2006 | Status: FxMoveDotCom | 658 Posts
Yap.too many false signal so i use it just when the market trending, or market direction already known
  • Post #10
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  • Dec 13, 2006 1:52am Dec 13, 2006 1:52am
  •  nitman
  • | Joined Nov 2005 | Status: Member | 386 Posts
Quoting parlenk
Disliked
Yap.too many false signal so i use it just when the market trending, or market direction already known
Ignored
I think the method was meant to be for reversal or exhaustion, not trending in one direction type condition. You must be talking about the beginning of a new trend.
  • Post #11
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  • Dec 13, 2006 2:18am Dec 13, 2006 2:18am
  •  caliant
  • | Joined Nov 2006 | Status: Member | 7 Posts
I am currently using TD line breakout (aka mouteki) on the GBP 15min and have only been testing it for 2 weeks. For me, it has been quite a result, and although 2 weeks doesn't exactly prove anything, but the book that Demark wrote has been around since '94 and he claims that the method was invented 20 years ago, i think around the 80s. I consider it safe to say that it has stood the test of time. The TD line qualifiers are crucial. I've noticed several times when it is not qualified, more often than not, it was a false breakout.

I've uploaded my chart from the past 2 weeks. Hopefully, someone can learn something from it.
Attached File
File Type: zip Chart Archives.zip   561 KB | 1,279 download
  • Post #12
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  • Dec 13, 2006 2:20am Dec 13, 2006 2:20am
  •  parlenk
  • | Joined Mar 2006 | Status: FxMoveDotCom | 658 Posts
No.When i used it for reversal, it give me false sign.So now use it when I know where the market headed.since mouteki can predict the target area (usually not the reversal point,because many time it hit the price but still long way to go .So i wont call it exhaustion point or reversal.the point is when mouteki give signal (where market to go,the TP.I usually wait to confirm it with fib or tunnel.after everything good to go i enter my order.).Usually the target area is correct in the trending market...in the bounch market will eat my account.well maybe confuse to other but this is how mouteki work on me.just a pointer of area.



Quoting nitman
Disliked
I think the method was meant to be for reversal or exhaustion, not trending in one direction type condition. You must be talking about the beginning of a new trend.
Ignored
  • Post #13
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  • Dec 13, 2006 2:31am Dec 13, 2006 2:31am
  •  parlenk
  • | Joined Mar 2006 | Status: FxMoveDotCom | 658 Posts
Hmm If mouteki most of thetime give false signal, so I think it is a good tool then.Just dont follow the signal (LOL) if it give you sign to long..u just to short it (LOL) just an idea hehehhe.

Quoting caliant
Disliked
I am currently using TD line breakout (aka mouteki) on the GBP 15min and have only been testing it for 2 weeks. For me, it has been quite a result, and although 2 weeks doesn't exactly prove anything, but the book that Demark wrote has been around since '94 and he claims that the method was invented 20 years ago, i think around the 80s. I consider it safe to say that it has stood the test of time. The TD line qualifiers are crucial. I've noticed several times when it is not qualified, more often than not, it was a false breakout.

I've uploaded my chart from the past 2 weeks. Hopefully, someone can learn something from it.
Ignored
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Dec 13, 2006 2:49am Dec 13, 2006 2:49am
  •  jumper
  • | Joined Sep 2006 | Status: Don't think. Just jump. | 534 Posts
Quoting caliant
Disliked
I am currently using TD line breakout (aka mouteki) on the GBP 15min and have only been testing it for 2 weeks. For me, it has been quite a result, and although 2 weeks doesn't exactly prove anything, but the book that Demark wrote has been around since '94 and he claims that the method was invented 20 years ago, i think around the 80s. I consider it safe to say that it has stood the test of time. The TD line qualifiers are crucial. I've noticed several times when it is not qualified, more often than not, it was a false breakout.

I've uploaded my chart from the past 2 weeks. Hopefully, someone can learn something from it.
Ignored
I am currently experimenting with TD lines too (I like it over Mouteki which I feel is a subset). A sad thing though that on 4h TF (unless moves are big, any lower seems too unreliable), even when using just lvl 1 TD points as preferred by TD himself, signals that meet qualifiers 1/2 & 3 are rather few.

See below for a setup (USD/CAD 4h) that qualified #1 and #3 and still failed. Damn, I thought I found the holy grail.
Attached Image
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  • Post #15
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  • Dec 13, 2006 2:50am Dec 13, 2006 2:50am
  •  jumper
  • | Joined Sep 2006 | Status: Don't think. Just jump. | 534 Posts
Quoting parlenk
Disliked
Hmm If mouteki most of thetime give false signal, so I think it is a good tool then.Just dont follow the signal (LOL) if it give you sign to long..u just to short it (LOL) just an idea hehehhe.
Ignored
If only it is that easy!
I am JuMPeR. :party:
  • Post #16
  • Quote
  • Dec 13, 2006 2:52am Dec 13, 2006 2:52am
  •  MaXeY
  • Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Member | 985 Posts
Yea, am still trade mouteki but only cable, others pairs not works well.
Charting Markets into the Future...MǎҖ€¥.
  • Post #17
  • Quote
  • Dec 13, 2006 3:01am Dec 13, 2006 3:01am
  •  jumper
  • | Joined Sep 2006 | Status: Don't think. Just jump. | 534 Posts
Quoting MaXeY
Disliked
Yea, am still trade mouteki but only cable, others pairs not works well.
Ignored
I find that Mouteki works pretty well for GBP/CHF (the pair MoutekiTrader said he traded full-time). You may wish to try that if you haven't.
I am JuMPeR. :party:
  • Post #18
  • Quote
  • Dec 13, 2006 3:04am Dec 13, 2006 3:04am
  •  MaXeY
  • Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Member | 985 Posts
my friend tried to trade GBP/CHF he get 4 False Signals in ROw !!!

Quoting jumper
Disliked
I find that Mouteki works pretty well for GBP/CHF (the pair MoutekiTrader said he traded full-time). You may wish to try that if you haven't.
Ignored
Charting Markets into the Future...MǎҖ€¥.
  • Post #19
  • Quote
  • Edited at 3:30am Dec 13, 2006 3:15am | Edited at 3:30am
  •  caliant
  • | Joined Nov 2006 | Status: Member | 7 Posts
Jumper,

If you notice my charts, between the TD lines that I drew, there is always a wave. As for the chart that you showed, I don't see any wave between the points. This might be something that you want to look at. I am no expert, but just wanna help a bit.

I'm also curious to ask what time on EST did the breakout occured? I tested for 2 weeks, and if i can remember correctly (terrible memory, too much pepsi) i think i dealt with 1 or 2 false signals, but my SL is only 12-15 pips so I am happy with it.

I also notice the candles are quite big. So I assume the time scale between the 2 lines are somewhat close. I don't say that there is anything wrong with it, I just prefer to pick the former TD point at a somewhat reasonable distance to the latter, but still considered to be a recently formed TD point.

I hope this helps. I'm sure you know much more than me.
  • Post #20
  • Quote
  • Dec 13, 2006 8:01am Dec 13, 2006 8:01am
  •  jumper
  • | Joined Sep 2006 | Status: Don't think. Just jump. | 534 Posts
Quoting MaXeY
Disliked
my friend tried to trade GBP/CHF he get 4 False Signals in ROw !!!
Ignored
This is not a holy grail (obviously) and you will also need to apply some discretion - for instance, signals generated from spikes are generally unreliable, beware of consolidation periods, etc.

To be honest, I have found that Mouteki signals for cable are rather unreliable too!
I am JuMPeR. :party:
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