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  • #7,581
  • Apr 19, 2022 4:26am Apr 19, 2022 4:26am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It is not a matter of going deep in DD, as the DD is the actual account. I have posted too many times about this, it actually makes my head hurt that people cannot grasp it. I can give you a 1 million dollar account with a 4K DD. The one million is irrelevant, all of your risk must be based on the 4K as that is your "risk of ruin". In your own personal account, risk of ruin would be 100% of your equity. So if you risk 1% per trade, risk of ruin 100 trades, however, that 1% must be based on allowable DD with the prop. So when the 5%ers gives...
How are you better off with your own account?
For the 5ers account you paid €300 for a nominal $100k (4k real) account. Using your figures in step 1 you have to make 5k or 125%. Once you made it you get 2.5k after split and they upgrade you to a 125k (5k) account.
On your own account you made €375 so your own account is at €675. No split.
At completion of stage 5 with the 5ers you get upgraded to a 10k account and got 18750 in split so far. Your €300 would be €17300 without split. That is the point from when on you are better off on your own if you can keep up the 125% steps. But I guess after completing 5 stages you'll be able.
So the best strategy is is to get your 300 back, grow the initial stages as fast as you can, then abandon the account and continue on your own from somewhere around step 5. Or you can keep it and grow it to a 4M/160k account a by which stage you have gotten a split of 743.5k and your 300 account is now 291M. By the way you can copy the trades from your own account onto the 5ers account, so you get all the split with no additional work meanwhile your own account is compounding infinitely.
So, the 5ers is still a good 3rd choice.
  • #7,582
  • Apr 19, 2022 5:27am Apr 19, 2022 5:27am
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: TEztUtc.png Size: 133 KB
a picture paints a thousands words

Fee and DD

1:10 it will be a painfully slowwwww journey
  • #7,583
  • Apr 19, 2022 6:26am Apr 19, 2022 6:26am
Hello all German traders,

I have asked some of you privately but I have also decided about asking the question publicly.

Question: Any of you know if these new restrictions to Leverage products apply to the kind of prop firms like FTMO, MFF etc?

Opinions are welcome but It would be great to have an answer from someone who is already enrolled in this proyect or tried to do it.

Vielen Dank, Thank you, Gracias!

David.
“Stops don’t limit profits — they prevent disasters.”
  • #7,584
  • Apr 19, 2022 7:30am Apr 19, 2022 7:30am
Quoting Dagaco
Hello all German traders, I have asked some of you privately but I have also decided about asking the question publicly. Question: Any of you know if these new restrictions to Leverage products apply to the kind of prop firms like FTMO, MFF etc? Opinions are welcome but It would be great to have an answer from someone who is already enrolled in this proyect or tried to do it. Vielen Dank, Thank you, Gracias! David.

If you are asking about the 30 leverage for clients. Probably this is not relevant to those companies as the account belongs to the company.
  • #7,585
  • Apr 19, 2022 7:58am Apr 19, 2022 7:58am
Quoting Eren10
{quote} If you are asking about the 30 leverage for clients. Probably this is not relevant to those companies as the account belongs to the company.
Hi Eren10,

Thank you for your comment. The 30:1 leverage is not a problem at all, what I mean is that here in Germany a new tax law has almost forbidden all leverage products, this includes cfds (forex), futures, options, etc..and I was wondering if there were some traders (who lives here)that have applied for this prop firms and if they know if these new rules apply also to these firms. I have read some comments about the matter in this forum but nothing clear about this .
“Stops don’t limit profits — they prevent disasters.”
  • #7,586
  • Apr 19, 2022 9:09am Apr 19, 2022 9:09am
Quoting Basill
{quote} Put away the arrogance, ignorance & impatience. The world is your oyster. {image}
How's the oyster? If it is fresh I might dive in to harvest a few.
  • #7,587
  • Apr 19, 2022 9:29am Apr 19, 2022 9:29am
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} How's the oyster? If it is fresh I might dive in to harvest a few.
Just in case you wanna try Tentoptraders, they are offering the free program again -
https://www.tentoptraders.com/free/
  • #7,588
  • Edited 12:43pm Apr 19, 2022 9:35am | Edited 12:43pm
Quoting Dagaco
{quote} Hi Eren10, Thank you for your comment. The 30:1 leverage is not a problem at all, what I mean is that here in Germany a new tax law has almost forbidden all leverage products, this includes cfds (forex), futures, options, etc..and I was wondering if there were some traders (who lives here)that have applied for this prop firms and if they know if these new rules apply also to these firms. I have read some comments about the matter in this forum but nothing clear about this .
look, these "prop firms", include all the most popular names here, have pretty much zero regulations as financial products or service providers.
they arent even financial firms in the typical sense, and definitely not brokerages.

think of them like you with think of an education or gaming company with prizes if you excel in their game.
that would be the closest to their true nature, and company profiles.

will the new German tax law allow citizens to play games for cash prizes? lottery, sports betting, etc?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #7,589
  • Apr 19, 2022 10:46am Apr 19, 2022 10:46am
Quoting mixedbags
{image}a picture paints a thousands words Fee and DD 1:10 it will be a painfully slowwwww journey
1:10 on a 4k account is 40k buying power.
1:100 on your 323.68 private account is 32368 USD.
40000>32368
  • #7,590
  • Apr 19, 2022 10:51am Apr 19, 2022 10:51am
Quoting mayr
{quote} 1:10 on a 4k account is 40k buying power. 1:100 on your 323.68 private account is 32368 USD. 40000>32368
It is literally exhausting trying to explain this. Take the profit target and divide by the DD allowed to hit the target. Now take the fee, as this is what you would deposit in a personal account, and multiply it times the % you got with the first formula I provided. Now apply it through all of the levels. Let us know what you get.
  • #7,591
  • Apr 19, 2022 10:58am Apr 19, 2022 10:58am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It is literally exhausting trying to explain this. Take the profit target and divide by the DD allowed to hit the target. Now take the fee, as this is what you would deposit in a personal account, and multiply it times the % you got with the first formula I provided. Now apply it through all of the levels. Let us know what you get.
Pleaaaase.....Just one more time

(Joking mate)
  • #7,592
  • Apr 19, 2022 10:59am Apr 19, 2022 10:59am
I did it for everyone. If you take the $300 and apply what they are asking of you 17 times to get to the 4 million, which is 160K in DD, the personal account has 291,221,921 and 20 cents!!!!!!!

291,221,921.20 > 160,000
  • #7,593
  • Apr 19, 2022 11:21am Apr 19, 2022 11:21am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It is literally exhausting trying to explain this. Take the profit target and divide by the DD allowed to hit the target. Now take the fee, as this is what you would deposit in a personal account, and multiply it times the % you got with the first formula I provided. Now apply it through all of the levels. Let us know what you get.
I know. But you should read my previous post on the top of the page. But I'll copy it for you:

Quote
How are you better off with your own account?
For the 5ers account you paid €300 for a nominal $100k (4k real) account. Using your figures in step 1 you have to make 5k or 125%. Once you made it you get 2.5k after split and they upgrade you to a 125k (5k) account.
On your own account you made €375 so your own account is at €675. No split.
At completion of stage 5 with the 5ers you get upgraded to a 10k account and got 18750 in split so far. Your €300 would be €17300 without split. That is the point from when on you are better off on your own if...

See, I did all you asked for, before you asked for it, and the numbers show that for at least the first 5 stages you're better off with the 5ers than on your own.

The post you were replying to was specific to mixedbags's comment about leverage. Yes the 5ers give you "only" 1:10 but you still get more buying power than on your own. At least for a while.

But yes, this is exhausting and I'm done.
  • #7,594
  • Apr 19, 2022 12:24pm Apr 19, 2022 12:24pm
Quoting Dagaco
{quote} Hi Eren10, Thank you for your comment. The 30:1 leverage is not a problem at all, what I mean is that here in Germany a new tax law has almost forbidden all leverage products, this includes cfds (forex), futures, options, etc..and I was wondering if there were some traders (who lives here)that have applied for this prop firms and if they know if these new rules apply also to these firms. I have read some comments about the matter in this forum but nothing clear about this .
Hi,
you do not trade for a firm. Never use these words in Germany. You are more a "consultant". You are selling you're knowledge about 'technical analysis'. These accounts are official playmoney, nothing more. You don't touch any money.
You have to create a "Gewerbe" but not as a trader. Hope this helps...

Best
Chriss
  • #7,595
  • Apr 19, 2022 1:21pm Apr 19, 2022 1:21pm
If anything, you are providing signal data. Up to the firm whether or not they want to use that data for their benefit.
  • #7,596
  • Apr 19, 2022 2:23pm Apr 19, 2022 2:23pm
Quoting pipmaster77
I did it for everyone. If you take the $300 and apply what they are asking of you 17 times to get to the 4 million, which is 160K in DD, the personal account has 291,221,921 and 20 cents!!!!!!! 291,221,921.20 > 160,000
This is forex and I have no time for toxic friends that give me maths problems.

The cheapest and fastest route to $4million is to swim freestyle.
  • #7,597
  • Apr 19, 2022 2:45pm Apr 19, 2022 2:45pm
Quoting chrissfx
{quote} Hi, you do not trade for a firm. Never use these words in Germany. You are more a "consultant". You are selling you're knowledge about 'technical analysis'. These accounts are official playmoney, nothing more. You don't touch any money. You have to create a "Gewerbe" but not as a trader. Hope this helps... Best Chriss
Danke Chrissfx!
“Stops don’t limit profits — they prevent disasters.”
  • #7,598
  • Apr 19, 2022 2:48pm Apr 19, 2022 2:48pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} look, these "prop firms", include all the most popular names here, have pretty much zero regulations as financial products or service providers. they arent even financial firms in the typical sense, and definitely not brokerages. think of them like you with think of an education or gaming company with prizes if you excel in their game. that would be the closest to their true nature, and company profiles. will the new German tax law allow citizens to play games for cash prizes? lottery, sports betting, etc?
Thank you profitfarmer!!
“Stops don’t limit profits — they prevent disasters.”
  • #7,599
  • Apr 20, 2022 1:31am Apr 20, 2022 1:31am
Quick message to inform that I received a payout from Traders Central Fund. I'm still shocked.
My evaluation about them is very negative, mainly because horrible customer service, but as I got paid I'll try to make a review later on about them.
  • #7,600
  • Apr 20, 2022 8:10am Apr 20, 2022 8:10am
Quoting Capablanca
Quick message to inform that I received a payout from Traders Central Fund. I'm still shocked. My evaluation about them is very negative, mainly because horrible customer service, but as I got paid I'll try to make a review later on about them.
Wow miracles will never cease!
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