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  • #7,521
  • Apr 15, 2022 3:00pm Apr 15, 2022 3:00pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It is, by far, their best offering to date. Only issue I have is the consistency of position sizes. I use a semi-swing strat using weekly pivots, where stops and targets are wider and I also scale in and out of these positions, therefore trade sizes are smaller. With my intraday, I am in and out, borderline scalping, therefore positions are larger. I suppose I could just use one strategy, but then my fear would be the time to execute 100 trades (especially with the semi-swing, which would be more likely to get the profit factor of 2 needed)....
It is getting close to interesting for me. Do we know of anyone being paid by them yet? Assuming on other programs as this one is new.
  • #7,522
  • Apr 15, 2022 3:14pm Apr 15, 2022 3:14pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Only issue I have is the consistency of position sizes
-Yes. I have been practicing in demo to try to fine-tune my style of trading to work with these parameters. For me, it is important to find a good balance, as trading too small or too large can both present their own difficulties. On the plus side, once funded, it becomes mostly irrelevant. The downside is that the challenge will take longer than usual, however, there is only one phase that you have to worry about and it is hard to beat 100% payout on an account with no daily draw-down rule.

Quoting Fagin
Do we know of anyone being paid by them yet? Assuming on other programs as this one is new.
-Until now, I have mostly disregarded this firm. However, from what I can see, they seem to have been around for a while and I have seen many comments from traders speaking positive things. For whatever that's worth.
  • #7,523
  • Apr 15, 2022 3:39pm Apr 15, 2022 3:39pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes. I have been practicing in demo to try to fine-tune my style of trading to work with these parameters. For me, it is important to find a good balance, as trading too small or too large can both present their own difficulties. On the plus side, once funded, it becomes mostly irrelevant. The downside is that the challenge will take longer than usual, however, there is only one phase that you have to worry about and it is hard to beat 100% payout on an account with no daily draw-down rule. {quote}-Until now, I have mostly disregarded this...
I wonder why they have gone to the MT5 netting rule?
Thinking this through I don’t think I could copy trade from one of my MT4 accounts to this one because of the nett.
For example on MT4 I might have 4 trades on and close them with 3 winners and one loser to a fixed take profit point. I don’t think this would copy across to the freestyle netting account would it, as all open trades amalgamate if I’ve understood this correctly?
Maybe that’s why they’ve done it… so we can’t copy trade?
  • #7,524
  • Apr 15, 2022 3:54pm Apr 15, 2022 3:54pm
Quoting Fagin
I wonder why they have gone to the MT5 netting rule?
-Because without netting, traders could easily pass the challenge in an hour or less, and that would not give them enough data.

Quoting Fagin
Thinking this through I don’t think I could copy trade from one of my MT4 accounts to this one because of the nett. For example on MT4 I might have 4 trades on and close them with 3 winners and one loser to a fixed take profit point. I don’t think this would copy across to the freestyle netting account would it, as all open trades amalgamate if I’ve understood this correctly?
-I would ask them to be sure, but as far as I understand it, the profit is exactly the same as it would be if you were trading the traditional way, so it really shouldn't matter. That is just my guess.
  • #7,525
  • Apr 15, 2022 6:32pm Apr 15, 2022 6:32pm
[quote=Nsak3y;13971063]{quote}- On the plus side, once funded, it becomes mostly irrelevant.

If I understand correctly, it would be relevant in order to scale. Part of the allure of this program is getting a much larger account as you can't just "buy-in" at 200K and/or have multiple accounts. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  • #7,526
  • Apr 15, 2022 6:34pm Apr 15, 2022 6:34pm
for forex trading - NETTING is always favorable to the broker not the traders. As you scale in you are not able to close those that are in good profit.
  • #7,527
  • Apr 15, 2022 6:39pm Apr 15, 2022 6:39pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Because without netting, traders could easily pass the challenge in an hour or less, and that would not give them enough data. {quote}-I would ask them to be sure, but as far as I understand it, the profit is exactly the same as it would be if you were trading the traditional way, so it really shouldn't matter. That is just my guess.
without netting, traders could easily pass the challenge - simple logic, simple math any trader should know. Why would you jump into the trap is complex logic and complex math.
  • #7,528
  • Apr 15, 2022 6:57pm Apr 15, 2022 6:57pm
Quoting garfield75
Got busy this week so was unable to take any meaningful trade. Half way mark to target and time. {image}
Very good progress Garfield 75.

Nice work.

Masterrmind ............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,529
  • Apr 15, 2022 7:07pm Apr 15, 2022 7:07pm
Quoting Nsak3y
An update regarding 5%er's Freestyle program: 1. Program now offers a full refund of the challenge fee following successful completion. 2. Cheaper 25K account option now available. 3. First account has a free reset that can be used at any time, even if you are in draw-down (i.e. you get two tries to pass). As a side note, indices are hopefully coming soon, but no official announcement has been made. Regarding #3, I am not sure if the free reset applies to each account that you buy, or, literally only once per trader over the lifetime of the program....

I will have a go at this once my current MFF evaluation is done.
Trading is SIMPLE not EASY.
  • #7,530
  • Apr 15, 2022 7:52pm Apr 15, 2022 7:52pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Might be worth challenging with MFF support. It is a demo account afterall ! Hmmm. Masterrmind ..........
Outcome was as expected regarding slippage on trading account.

MFF support did not even bother to address that Gold trade directly.

Instead they only emailed me generic well known information and did not address my concern specifically.

As a matter of fact if a trader got slipped there is no limit to the amount of slippage that could occur at any given time.

Quite a risky situation considering that your 'safe' stop loss order level could easily be jumped creating a much larger loss than the one you expected.

I was slipped negatively 50c on a Gold position which was enough to end the challenge at the time.

Needless to say, it pays to use smaller volumes with larger stops in this case in order to try and minimize the impact caused by negative slippage.

Trading EURUSD I have not noticed much slippage at all even at larger volumes.

Masterrmind ..............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #7,531
  • Apr 15, 2022 7:56pm Apr 15, 2022 7:56pm
Quoting mixedbags
for forex trading - NETTING is always favorable to the broker not the traders. As you scale in you are not able to close those that are in good profit.
Yes, and I do that all the time. Enter at a better price, close in profit, sometimes leave the original if trade is still valid. Closing the one in profit reduces the original risk, etc, etc. However, with netting it becomes one position, I'm sure you could close partial, BUT, the key is the entire position would need to be in profit, otherwise you're closing a partial loser.
  • #7,532
  • Apr 15, 2022 7:59pm Apr 15, 2022 7:59pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Outcome was as expected regarding slippage on trading account. MFF support did not even bother to address that Gold trade directly. Instead they only emailed me generic well known information and did not address my concern specifically. As a matter of fact if a trader got slipped there is no limit to the amount of slippage that could occur at any given time. Quite a risky situation considering that your 'safe' stop loss order level could easily be jumped creating a much larger loss than the one you expected. I was slipped negatively 50c...
Can you refresh me on the gold trade, knowing you're a seasoned vet, I'm sure I already know the answer....was slippage around any news, rollover, some talking head sent a tweet, etc, etc.? We can control most of it, but not those unexpected "so and so just tweeted"
  • #7,533
  • Apr 15, 2022 8:19pm Apr 15, 2022 8:19pm
Quoting pipmaster77
If I understand correctly, it would be relevant in order to scale. Part of the allure of this program is getting a much larger account as you can't just "buy-in" at 200K and/or have multiple accounts. Correct me if I'm wrong.
-Yes. This is why I say mostly irrelevant. Those that wish to scale will need to have a good performance factor. However, even if you do not have a minimum performance factor of 2 by the time you hit your 100 trades, you can still work to increase it without having to trade an additional 100 trades, so it is not as restrictive as the challenge. As long as the draw-down rule is not violated, then every trader should eventually be able to scale as they accumulate more profits (unless they continue to take on bigger and bigger losses). Additionally, since the account does not employ a daily draw-down rule and only a fixed, 10% maximum draw-down from the initial balance, traders are able to easily pad their account however they wish, so scaling may become less important to some.

Quoting mixedbags
for forex trading - NETTING is always favorable to the broker not the traders. As you scale in you are not able to close those that are in good profit.
-You can close out partial profits by taking trades in the opposite direction. But really, the profit/loss is the exact same as if you had individual positions. The only difference might be your trading metrics. That is my understanding, anyway. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. I personally like netting due to the way that I trade.

Quoting pipmaster77
Closing the one in profit reduces the original risk,
-Yes. That would be the one downside that I can think of; less control. I personally do not like to close out the few that are in profit, though, since keeping them open can really help once the market moves in your favor.

Quoting mixedbags
without netting, traders could easily pass the challenge - simple logic, simple math any trader should know. Why would you jump into the trap is complex logic and complex math.
-Not really complex. At the end of the day, each trader will have to weigh it and decide whether or not trading according to the rules and requirements will be worth what they are offering. I will not even consider it unless they add indices, though, personally. But, that is supposed to be in the works.

Quoting garfield75
I will have a go at this once my current MFF evaluation is done.
-Please let us know how it goes.
  • #7,534
  • Edited 1:07am Apr 16, 2022 12:53am | Edited 1:07am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, and I do that all the time. Enter at a better price, close in profit, sometimes leave the original if trade is still valid. Closing the one in profit reduces the original risk, etc, etc. However, with netting it becomes one position, I'm sure you could close partial, BUT, the key is the entire position would need to be in profit, otherwise you're closing a partial loser.
Yes, I was doing this with MaybanK KE forex for many years with good profit. But 4 years ago they change to Netting - there is no way to unwind your position.
To close partially only when you are in profit will not have any edge at all in forex. Unless you can trade with one shot one kill.

Would love to see how many will become happy traders with brokers who forced you to trade netting. Yes FORCED you into netting. ok if you sign up happily and willingly with 5ers I wish you luck, and would love to learn from you.

btw I was with Maybank for 2 years after they changed to netting I survived with sheer luck to tell you don't go for netting, unless you only open 1 position and never ever average/scale your position.
  • #7,535
  • Apr 16, 2022 4:18am Apr 16, 2022 4:18am
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} Yes, I was doing this with MaybanK KE forex for many years with good profit. But 4 years ago they change to Netting - there is no way to unwind your position. To close partially only when you are in profit will not have any edge at all in forex. Unless you can trade with one shot one kill. Would love to see how many will become happy traders with brokers who forced you to trade netting. Yes FORCED you into netting. ok if you sign up happily and willingly with 5ers I wish you luck, and would love to learn from you. btw I was with Maybank...
Hmm interesting. I have reservations about netting off as part of their offering, I’ll drop a few questions on their thread as the video on there is confusing and low quality.
  • #7,536
  • Apr 16, 2022 6:34am Apr 16, 2022 6:34am
[quote=Nsak3y;13971084]{quote}-Because without netting, traders could easily pass the challenge in an hour or less, and that would not give them enough data. {quote}
I assumed you have this info from 5ers - "without netting, traders could easily pass the challenge in an hour or less". Therefore to prevent anyone from passing they introduce NETTING.

Netting is being introduce to make it harder for you to pass. Do you get it?

Ask them try harder to give a better reason than this - "that would not give them enough data".

No I am not trying to convince you not to try, nor am I doubting your trading ability. I would encourage you to sign up and go for it.
  • #7,537
  • Apr 16, 2022 6:42am Apr 16, 2022 6:42am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Hmm interesting. I have reservations about netting off as part of their offering, I’ll drop a few questions on their thread as the video on there is confusing and low quality.
It is just being unfortunate that you have bad experience with MFF. To me MFF and FTMO are still the best in the market.
I don't use the dashboard at all for payout. Every 2 weeks I will just send them an email to request for payout.

All payments are made within 2 working days and I will be notified by Deel and Wise.
  • #7,538
  • Apr 16, 2022 8:06am Apr 16, 2022 8:06am
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} Yes, I was doing this with MaybanK KE forex for many years with good profit. But 4 years ago they change to Netting - there is no way to unwind your position. To close partially only when you are in profit will not have any edge at all in forex. Unless you can trade with one shot one kill. Would love to see how many will become happy traders with brokers who forced you to trade netting. Yes FORCED you into netting. ok if you sign up happily and willingly with 5ers I wish you luck, and would love to learn from you. btw I was with Maybank...
So being in the US, the regulatory body....the CFTC does not allow hedging and you must close your trades in a First In First Out order .....it is automatically netting, not on the broker level, but ON THE REGULATION LEVEL. In addition to no protection of funds, you can clearly see the US regulations are there to protect the trader. This is why I have used offshore brokers for 9 years and now prop firms for almost 2 years.
  • #7,539
  • Apr 16, 2022 8:10am Apr 16, 2022 8:10am
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} It is just being unfortunate that you have bad experience with MFF. To me MFF and FTMO are still the best in the market. I don't use the dashboard at all for payout. Every 2 weeks I will just send them an email to request for payout. All payments are made within 2 working days and I will be notified by Deel and Wise.
To me the 3 firms that are the most credible, and IMO, will be here in 10+ years are FTMO, MFF and , yes, the 5%ers. I just do not see any value whatsoever in the 5%ers offerings. The only thing that will prevent the 5%ers from being around is folks getting smarter and onto their"fund your own account for a nominal fee and then give us 50%" model.
  • #7,540
  • Apr 16, 2022 9:59am Apr 16, 2022 9:59am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} To me the 3 firms that are the most credible, and IMO, will be here in 10+ years are FTMO, MFF and , yes, the 5%ers. I just do not see any value whatsoever in the 5%ers offerings. The only thing that will prevent the 5%ers from being around is folks getting smarter and onto their"fund your own account for a nominal fee and then give us 50%" model.
The5ers have an ftmo/mff-style 100k bootcamp. It's 18% vs 15%/13% before it's live but you can scale it up to 4M and you can have 3 accounts. With their 1:10 leverage it's 120M buying power vs 200M on FTMO (1:100 leverage). So it's still a good third choice.
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