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What was your "holy grail"?

  • #121
  • Jun 10, 2017 9:22pm Jun 10, 2017 9:22pm
Quoting Ganative
I realized that "traders" just make trading harder than it needs to be... it is all psychological. 4for4, you are probably the only person I know that trades similar to me (given that I just made this account and only opened one thread, I'm sure there are more traders out there that trade like us ). I do not know how to put this in a simpler context but BIG MONEY LEAVE TRACES BEHIND... follow the traces. ANTICIPATE. You must anticipate... otherwise you are purely gambling. If you do not have an idea of where you want to buy/sell, you...
Yes, anticipate means planning the trade ...
I love it when people said that trading is similar to gambling ... and here's my reply:
Let's say we are about to play a random 50/50-chance game for a session of 20 rounds, e.g., head-tail, big-small, or others. Instead of working our brain-emotions-&-guts to the fullest on each round trying to guess the next outcome, why don't we just pick a side and play that side for 20 rounds ... At the end of the session, only 3 things can happen: breaking even, winning (but won't double the stake), or losing (but won't lose all the stake) ...
And that's how to play a random 50/50-chance game. But what if somehow we know that the game is a little bit bias to a side, wouldn't we play that side all the way?

Well, good news to all traders: Although the market is seemingly random (especially true in lower timeframes), it's actually bias to a side most of the time. The problem is that the bias can change anytime unexpectedly. This is where patience comes in. The patience to wait until we can see the bias more clearly before proceeding ...
Thus, know the ongoing trend beforehand by identifying it from higher timeframe charts ... Good luck to you all
Market is not random but unpredictable
  • #122
  • Jun 11, 2017 1:15am Jun 11, 2017 1:15am
There has been some really good posts here, I appreciate the time everyone here spends on trying to help educate themselves and others. I guess my bit of advice (anecdotal XD) would be to follow the money, look at where the big players have positioned themselves and then ask yourself why would they do that.

Out of interest why don't more people on here have public TE accounts? For me it would help gauge the advice they provide to their profitability (would be easier to discern information that really works as opposed to other that may sound good but doesn't actually work in practice)
Trading is a Zero sum game. Someone winning means someone losing.
  • #123
  • Jun 11, 2017 5:04am Jun 11, 2017 5:04am
Your trading mindset is your Holy Grail! When you have enough control on your mindset then you would be able to make regular money even though you are trading here with a simple trading strategy! But there is no Holy Grail trading strategy!
  • #124
  • Edited Jun 12, 2017 12:31am Jun 11, 2017 6:01pm | Edited Jun 12, 2017 12:31am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Leverage is just a tool. It's extremely useful if you know how to use it and you can become a millionaire in months starting with just $1000 and using high leverage. However, most people are extremely likely to lose several thousand at first while attempting it. Most will never reach that level of control. It can be done, but, most newbies don't have the experience yet to know how to do it. They lack the wisdom. You should take the highest leverage available but just because a tool is in your toolbox does not mean it's the proper time to...
Yes sir, it is all about experience. "They lack the wisdom" that's why screen time is so utterly important. People take years to finally become profitable because they are looking in the wrong direction, or something is clouding them from just picking up the damn information right there in front of them... it takes them forever to be able to identify what's a good trade and a bad trade. It only took me 9-10 months, I am very proud to say that I began to pick up what was right in front of all of us. Of course, I am still improving every aspect of my trading but I invested so much time each day, grinding hours upon hours, just breathing ANYTHING forex. It's about persistence... I have thought about throwing in the towel a couple of times out of frustration when I would have huge losses and thought this was just impossible. But one day, I woke up and it just became so clear... I thought to myself, "why the hell are you over complicating matters so much?" And that same week, I just saw the market from a whole different perspective and began to work on my areas of weaknesses. I asked a lot of questions, not to anybody specific but to myself. "Why did that trade not work out?" I improved what was screwing me over. If you don't ask questions... you will never improve. I looked up topics and read forums and read opinions/perspectives from other traders about what I was weak at. That's how you get better... you gotta want it bad enough to grind through the sweat and early failure.
  • #125
  • Jun 11, 2017 6:06pm Jun 11, 2017 6:06pm
Quoting 4for4
{quote} Yes, anticipate means planning the trade ... I love it when people said that trading is similar to gambling ... and here's my reply: Let's say we are about to play a random 50/50-chance game for a session of 20 rounds, e.g., head-tail, big-small, or others. Instead of working our brain-emotions-&-guts to the fullest on each round trying to guess the next outcome, why don't we just pick a side and play that side for 20 rounds ... At the end of the session, only 3 things can happen: breaking even, winning (but won't double the stake), or losing...
4for4 you said it best again. Patience is key. Naturally, I am a very fast paced moving person... when I am doing anything, I want it done pronto and on the spot. My family and friends think I am the most impatient person they have ever met because I can't sit around and wait for things to get done, I have to get it done myself that same day. Like this could be for anything, running errands, getting an oil change, vacuuming the house, etc. so of course this transferred over to my trading. I could not wait. I was impatient, I entered trades impulsively because I wanted to make money quick. You have to get excited for waiting, being patient in this business should be thrilling. It finally hit me after several months.
  • #126
  • Edited 8:23pm Jun 11, 2017 6:09pm | Edited 8:23pm
Quoting brody477
There has been some really good posts here, I appreciate the time everyone here spends on trying to help educate themselves and others. I guess my bit of advice (anecdotal XD) would be to follow the money, look at where the big players have positioned themselves and then ask yourself why would they do that. Out of interest why don't more people on here have public TE accounts? For me it would help gauge the advice they provide to their profitability (would be easier to discern information that really works as opposed to other that may sound good...
nice you are on the right track with the first paragraph, brilliant.

I don't provide a trade explorer because I don't care enough haha. I don't care if people believe me or follow my advice, the ones who are reading this thread, commenting, providing insight, and actually understand what I'm saying are the smart ones. They already know what the difference is between a shit trader and a good trader. Plus, there are no systems in this thread, correct? It is all tips and advice, no type of systems.
  • #127
  • Jun 11, 2017 10:52pm Jun 11, 2017 10:52pm
Quoting Ganative
{quote} nice you are on the right track with the first paragraph, brilliant. I don't provide a trade explorer because I don't care enough haha. I don't care if people believe me or follow my advice, the ones who are reading this thread, commenting, providing insight, and actually understand what I'm saying are the smart ones. They already know what the difference is between a shit trader and a good trader. Plus, there are no systems in this thread, correct? It is all tips and advice, no type of systems.
I understand what you mean by deciphering the good information from the bad. However my point of adding TEs still stands as it would provide extra information about the trader.

Besides isn't the only difference between a shit trader and a good trader their profits I mean you could follow all the rules 100% no emotion to a system that was previously profitable, but if your losing money then you are no better than someone who can trade on a whim and be consistently profitable.
Trading is a Zero sum game. Someone winning means someone losing.
  • #128
  • Jun 11, 2017 11:49pm Jun 11, 2017 11:49pm
Quoting brody477
{quote} I understand what you mean by deciphering the good information from the bad. However my point of adding TEs still stands as it would provide extra information about the trader. Besides isn't the only difference between a shit trader and a good trader their profits I mean you could follow all the rules 100% no emotion to a system that was previously profitable, but if your losing money then you are no better than someone who can trade on a whim and be consistently profitable.
The best traders won't show shit about their trades. For good reason(They profit more because others lose). They don't care if you think they're better or worse than another trader. They leave their breadcrumbs and it's up to others to either follow them or starve. That they even share their breadcrumbs is a kindness. It's up to each individual to figure it out for themselves... not everyone's ready.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #129
  • Jun 11, 2017 11:59pm Jun 11, 2017 11:59pm
I understand you, Ganative. The same thing applies to me too.
Not related to GPA, my GPA is high, But about the "Holy Grail" etc, etc.
  • #130
  • Edited 7:39am Jun 12, 2017 12:19am | Edited 7:39am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} The best traders won't show shit about their trades. For good reason(They profit more because others lose). They don't care if you think they're better or worse than another trader. They leave their breadcrumbs and it's up to others to either follow them or starve. That they even share their breadcrumbs is a kindness. It's up to each individual to figure it out for themselves... not everyone's ready.
Yep, that and I will never disclose how much money I have or how much I have profit. My family and friends don't know, nobody does. When they ask, I refuse to tell them. When people ask how come I don't work a minimum wage job along with the other college students my age, I tell them I trade. If they say, "huh? What's that?" Then I say, "just some boring financial stuff" and if they ask how much I make, I say, "enough" haha even my mom doesn't know. I don't share it with anybody so why would I feel the obligation to reveal that classified information to strangers on a forum? There's just really no reason to. Thank you for addressing that Redeflect.
  • #131
  • Jun 12, 2017 3:16am Jun 12, 2017 3:16am
Every master was once a beginner ...
And every confident trader was once a doubtful one, but they work hard to create their own methodology through their own thinking ... When they learned from others, they won't ask for proofs but just incorporate them into their own methodology and see/test if it does improve their results ... If it does, they won't brag about it. If it doesn't, they'll just quietly discard the idea ...
But since there are all kinds of people in this world, some of them are just "lazy and full-of-doubts" that all they can do is feeding their "follower" mentality ...
Market is not random but unpredictable
  • #132
  • Jun 12, 2017 5:20am Jun 12, 2017 5:20am
Quoting 4for4
Every master was once a beginner ... And every confident trader was once a doubtful one, but they work hard to create their own methodology through their own thinking ... When they learned from others, they won't ask for proofs but just incorporate them into their own methodology and see/test if it does improve their results ... If it does, they won't brag about it. If it doesn't, they'll just quietly discard the idea ... But since there are all kinds of people in this world, some of them are just "lazy and full-of-doubts" that all they can do is...
True. It's hard to imagine any of the famous traders as uncertain newbies who have no idea what they are doing, but even they started from somewhere.
  • #133
  • Jun 12, 2017 7:54am Jun 12, 2017 7:54am
Quoting 4for4
Every master was once a beginner ... And every confident trader was once a doubtful one, but they work hard to create their own methodology through their own thinking ... When they learned from others, they won't ask for proofs but just incorporate them into their own methodology and see/test if it does improve their results ... If it does, they won't brag about it. If it doesn't, they'll just quietly discard the idea ... But since there are all kinds of people in this world, some of them are just "lazy and full-of-doubts" that all they can do is...
Exactly. I developed my way of thinking and my trading plan learning and gathering a handful of helpful tips from others... many of the things I learned were of great use, I kept with my trading plan and will always be in my mindset as long as I keep trading... the bad information I dropped from my plan or from just by reading it, it was just full of crap and I knew it from the jump. I remember when I first started out, I used one of those trading platforms where you can see the traders who have the highest returns and you can see precisely when they opened a position, so you can copy their exact moves. I thought, "man, that's it? This is how you get rich? Just by copying what other people do?" It bit me in the ass because I thought wow, this is so easy I'm going to be so rich just from doing nothing! My life is set! But nope, that's how they get ya. It's not that simple. As you said, you can't be a follower. That's why a majority of forex traders fail miserably. And I'm not even being harsh, but they deserve it. That's just so fucking lazy, I'm sorry but lazy people don't and won't get anywhere in life.
  • #134
  • Jun 13, 2017 9:10pm Jun 13, 2017 9:10pm
As you start to get better and better, you begin to incorporate trading in literally every aspect... with anything. I'm watching a documentary on Netflix right now called "Chef's Table" it's basically just about chefs all over the globe who have made it in the culinary business for being unique and having their own special techniques. I'm on an episode where a teacher is talking about the success of her student, Magnus... she asks, "how is Magnus succeeding so well on the other side of the mountain? What is he doing so well that his peers aren't? What does he know that we don't know? Well, the thing is every other student read cookbooks. He doesn't read cookbooks... He creates." If you understood this, you can understand why it gave me chills. It just applies so greatly to trading. Haha is this how I will see things for the rest of my life? Everything relating to trading? I'm not sure how I feel about that.
  • #135
  • Jun 13, 2017 9:26pm Jun 13, 2017 9:26pm
Good point there, Ganative ... and very true ...
But I'm sure he keeps on reading (maybe not books, but articles) ... and not really to gain more knowledge, but more toward "refining" his creations ...
Market is not random but unpredictable
  • #136
  • Jun 13, 2017 9:49pm Jun 13, 2017 9:49pm
Quoting 4for4
Good point there, Ganative ... and very true ... But I'm sure he keeps on reading (maybe not books, but articles) ... and not really to gain more knowledge, but more toward "refining" his creations ...
Yes sir 4for4 you are correct, a very wise man haha. He does not follow books and other people's footsteps. He stated that by doing this, there is simply no creativity... BUT he does read a lot, it could just be looking at recipes and articles, gaining more knowledge to truly redefine his masterpiece creations... he states, "anyone can learn how to duplicate technique. But that's not creative expression. What's interesting is true development." There is a scene where he explains about how "boring" beef is. But if you change how cows eat and are breeded, you can create beef that is full of astronomical flavor. He states, "it's very exciting when you just kind of hit that moment where you realize that you're onto something. When you realize there is knowledge that's just lying there in the open, but nobody is using it." I mouthed "holy shit" because this is so very true. The same information is portrayed on the same screen for all of us... lying right there in the open. This is what I mean by, "I already picked up what was lying right in front of us" ... it's up to you to decide when to absorb what you see and how to interpret it.
  • #137
  • Jun 13, 2017 10:08pm Jun 13, 2017 10:08pm
Again, you're so very right, Ganative ...
All the information are lying there for everybody to see, but only a handful use them to the fullest ... they're all too eager to be in the action because they think that action is the key to success (which is true to some degree), yet they don't take enough time to "synchronize" their action with the situation at hand ... some of them even act on impulse ...
My only advice to them is: See the big picture first before acting on details ...
Market is not random but unpredictable
  • #138
  • Jun 14, 2017 12:04am Jun 14, 2017 12:04am
Quoting Ganative
{quote} Yes sir 4for4 you are correct, a very wise man haha. He does not follow books and other people's footsteps. He stated that by doing this, there is simply no creativity... BUT he does read a lot, it could just be looking at recipes and articles, gaining more knowledge to truly redefine his masterpiece creations... he states, "anyone can learn how to duplicate technique. But that's not creative expression. What's interesting is true development." There is a scene where he explains about how "boring" beef is. But if you change how cows eat...
Very true. If you have an open mind any 'negative' can be turned into a positive. It is quite amazing when you hear so many on this forum say that "no EA can be expected to handle every market condition and will lose in the longer term". For many, that statement poses a mental block where they simply tick it off in their mind and accept the fact without questioning it...... but an open inquiring mind takes that challenge and then adapts it and tests it. For example if no single EA can handle all market conditions, then you can ask, what forces me to be confined to a single EA in trading the markets?....for example, what if I use a different EA for each market condition and then incorporate them in a portfolio?

For those discretionary traders out there that may have say 5-10 different techniques up their sleeve......what would happen if under automation you had 50 different techniques up your sleeve? How then would your performance as an automated trader then stack up against the performance of a discretionary trader?

It's those sort of questioning queries that challenge mainstream view that potentially become the 'light bulb' for future success.
  • #139
  • Edited 2:27am Jun 14, 2017 1:40am | Edited 2:27am
Quoting Copernicus
For example if no single EA can handle all market conditions, then you can ask, what forces me to be confined to a single EA in trading the markets?....for example, what if I use a different EA for each market condition and then incorporate them in a portfolio?
C,

As an investor I'm a firm believer in diversification. However, each component in a portfolio must in itself deliver a long term positive return in its own right, otherwise the portfolio as a whole would perform better without it. If, for example, a given market condition occurs very rarely, then the positive return generated by a component that exploits that condition might be outweighed by the number of occasions that condition is absent, causing the component to contribute a negative return during that period. Of course this assumes that the overriding goal is maximization, as opposed to consistency, of overall income. And it also assumes that all of the components run continually, i.e. there isn't an overriding 'master' strategy that attempts to intelligently determine the current market condition and turn on/off the relevant components.

Perhaps I'm merely stating the obvious, but these scenarios are not immediately clear from your post. In my very humble opinion.

BTW, I'm not necessarily talking about EAs here, this includes all types of trading or investment strategies, discretionary included.

D
  • #140
  • Jun 14, 2017 2:30am Jun 14, 2017 2:30am
As i understand it, diversification offers the benefit of compounding returns while possibly averaging/or reducing the overall drawdown of a portfolio.

However, if one of the strategies delivers a greater ROI than the rest, and assuming you can carry the drawdown, why limit your results by spreading yourself out?

You should end up with a greater return by specialising.

For those who then come back with a risk versus return argument, my assumption is that you have a clear winner and you can carry the DD.
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