Hedging/Nedging | Page 8 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

The Barak Hedging Method 1 25 replies

Hedging 34 replies

Hedging anyone? 0 replies

Hedging 7 replies

Hedging strategies 7 replies

Attachments: Hedging/Nedging
Exit Attachments

Hedging/Nedging

  • #141
  • Edited Apr 25, 2017 7:42am Apr 24, 2017 2:37pm | Edited Apr 25, 2017 7:42am
Quoting TGS
To the traders who are researching various nedging techniques, I wouldn't be discouraged because of the negativity of non-nedger trolls. I temporarily posted a nedging result on my TE where by I net position into a current trend on a weekly basis. As you can see, it's working so far. But this won't stop the stubborn trolls that can't accept new information. They seem to be stuck on its arithmetic and saving a few dollars on broker fees while missing its operational advantage for one thing.
ok your little demoaccount for some days had wins, noone told here there cant be wins with hedging order closing method. where did you read it, you search for alternative facts? this are your new informations??? you really sound like a troll with your posts, no arguments, many mistakes, cant accept be wrong.

so you have wins in your demo account , but you have less wins then done correctly, point. you cant argument against such simple things, if you try you can only lose . by the way: your posted wins was a joke like a troll posting account, demo account, some days wins nothing more. you really dont understand that hedging is not a strategy, its simple a kind of closing an order. if you dont see this its very difficult when you try tell people some things without knowing at least what you did.

you really believe in that you did tell "new information" that other cant accept, you are joking or? its new for you, but for most traders thats a point they would laugh about you when you say this are "new informations that hedged trades can have wins " . its same like you tell me, closing trades can have wins, hedging is nothing more the a closing method in difficult way and increased risk. i hope in the end you understand what you write hear and you start learning basics and dont start trading now in live account, because you are still total beginner.

you say: "They seem to be stuck on its arithmetic and saving a few dollars on broker fees while missing its operational advantage for one thing"
thats your problem as a beginner. thats trading. all is done correct and save max possible costs and win so max possible. you really think that people will missing its operational advantage for this one thing, then you are more crazy then you show here. its a standard behavior and rule for "close trade, dont hedge when possible" to trade the trading system. point. you really bring no arguments , only some facts that show you even dont understand the basic behind, so its really difficult to teach you, because it looks like you need learning from the ground zero.
  • #142
  • Apr 24, 2017 2:49pm Apr 24, 2017 2:49pm
hedging hog is one of the best methods to double your account or to lose completly your account !

i am a greAT FAN OF HEDGING TRADING.

BASKET OR SAME PAIR HEDG - I DO BOTH

EVEN I WROTE SOME ea AND PUBLISHED HERE IN FF AND SOME TRADERS ARE USING THEM AND MAKING MONEY FROM THEM... BUT IT NEED LONG RUN TO BEGIN GETTIN PROFITS.

OK OK OK

I STOPPED HEDGING AND TRADING SINCE I WAS SICK AND HAVING HEART ATTCK LAST YEAR BUT I WAS JUST READING AND READING AND WTF MORE READING

I FOUND THAT HEDGING IS RELATED TO THE DAY RANGE... HUH A STRANGE IDEA POPED UP IN MY HEAD... BLINKING LIKE A STROKE OF LIGHT...

SO I MAKE A TEST ON REAL ACCOUNT WITH REAL MONEY BCZ SIMPLY THE DEMO ACCOUNT WILL SUCK AND WILL NOT GIVE REAL RESULTS,,, SO


HEDGING THE MAJOR 11 PAIRS IN A BASKET AND EACH ONE IS BEING HEDGED INSIDE ITSELF, THEN THE PROFITS MUST BE INSIDE THE DAILY NAVERAGE RANGE.

AND KEEP THE TRADES OPEN...

IF THE PRICE OF PAIR X WILL GO UP, THEN PAIR Z WILL GO DOWN AND ON THE SAME PAIR YOU WILL GET DOUBLE FLAOTING NEGATIVE LOSS THAT IT IS STILL NOT REMOVED YET ROM YOUR FUNDS BUT WHEN THE PAIRS AGAIN MOVE INTO CYCLE, WOW ALL HEDGED WILLBE CLOSED IN A MATTER OF FEW DAYS.


LONG STORY

GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #143
  • Apr 24, 2017 2:59pm Apr 24, 2017 2:59pm
Quoting Samer1970
hedging hog is one of the best methods to double your account or to lose completly your account ! i am a greAT FAN OF HEDGING TRADING. BASKET OR SAME PAIR HEDG - I DO BOTH EVEN I WROTE SOME ea AND PUBLISHED HERE IN FF AND SOME TRADERS ARE USING THEM AND MAKING MONEY FROM THEM... BUT IT NEED LONG RUN TO BEGIN GETTIN PROFITS. OK OK OK I STOPPED HEDGING AND TRADING SINCE I WAS SICK AND HAVING HEART ATTCK LAST YEAR BUT I WAS JUST READING AND READING AND WTF MORE READING I FOUND THAT HEDGING IS RELATED TO THE DAY RANGE... HUH A STRANGE IDEA POPED UP...
Samer,

Thanks for the write up.

When you said Basket Hedging: Did you mean like my Post

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=657929

You said:

"IF THE PRICE OF PAIR X WILL GO UP, THEN PAIR Z WILL GO DOWN AND ON THE SAME PAIR YOU WILL GET DOUBLE FLAOTING NEGATIVE LOSS THAT IT IS STILL NOT REMOVED YET ROM YOUR FUNDS BUT WHEN THE PAIRS AGAIN MOVE INTO CYCLE, WOW ALL HEDGED WILLBE CLOSED IN A MATTER OF FEW DAYS."

Could you illustrate with the help of an example.

Thanks
  • #144
  • Apr 24, 2017 3:18pm Apr 24, 2017 3:18pm
Quoting TGS
saving a few dollars on broker fees
Over time these can accumulate to a significant amount. This post by alphaomega is worth a read IMHO.
  • #145
  • Edited 7:24pm Apr 24, 2017 6:22pm | Edited 7:24pm
Quoting TGS
{quote} Yes of course. Also if I may hanover, I want to clarify something indirectly to the other poster because as a personal rule, I no longer reply directly to negativity. Of course nedging by itself does not offer any advantages; was this ever in question? This is clearly stated here. However, nedging can provide advantages otherwise that directly affects me. Some of which are advantages for the strategy itself depending on whether I decide on those options. And yes, I'm happy...

i answer to you when you come with arguments. only troll posting i dont comment any more. so its more easy for you, and you see when you troll, or when you do usefull arguments.

then list your advantages. and you will see, there are no advantages (but try to list it!). thats the problem with hedging, there are only disadvantages.

maybe advantages for starting traders or little bid advanced beginners: splitting orders because you are a beginner (and this is for sure 100%) and dont have using a trading book or not done your strategy for longer time so you cant remember your trades, or using expert advisors programming at beginner level, then hedge programming is more easy to code against close/reopen. i cant see any advantage more. maybe you find one, i will be listen.

and to your demo account (or same for very little real accounts or all money thats nothing for you - for all persons different): i have never did take a look to demo accounts since many years, i have seen this demo statements for so long time, have seen people using 1000 demo accounts and posting the one who was in win after some time later of course and not from beginning (telling results after was done is easy when having many accounts, one will have big results or simple luck), even some who use own white label brokers and put in/out some trades and even more crazy things. if you are in the business a longer time, you will learn that demo account is like you say you are the best soldier in real war because you did won 1 round in counterstrike. at beginning we all thought different, but with time you will change your mind too, when you will survive in this business so long. many things what can teached is subjectiv, but there are also objectiv rules, and hedging is one of this. there are many more complicated like "TP/SL double truth", but hedging is one of the most simplest methods a starting trader need to understand.

its really not easy to understand, why someone hedges and not closes and reopens for having less risk and low cost. i my former time we learned this in starting month already. there was no such bad behavior like it is used from many at this time: noone comes to the idea using a broker with 2 pips when there are broker with 1 pip spread /rollover/fees....., exactly same is hedging discussion plus lower risk (when used high trading amount in ratio to the account balance).

and to your very stupid sentence "Also, you're not aware of my strategy so how could you possibly know that nedging doesn't offer me advantages? Do you sound like a reasonable person?"
you are very very bad in learning! i told you already (and you are realy bad in reading and understanding) that hedging is no trading system , its simple a method of closing a trade (and not the best, but there are even more difficult methods). so i dont have to know your strategy to know that hedging dont have any effect to your strategy, without is more expansive because not doing it the best way. so simple is math, you can do it your way, i dont say anything. but you have less wins and thats your privat choice. but dont tell others that this i good what you do! thats unfair when beginner traders tell other in full truth closing methods that are not best possible way (at least tell the other you are only a beginner and started trading very short time, that they can evaluate what you say). but for me it looks really like you dont know better and you really think its best possible way or and you have many advantages from it? you have never really did write down to a paper your trades, thats first beginners should do, and you can find out by yourself the differences between different closing methods.

you try with all force to attack a objective math rule with your subjective understanding and ego. thats crazy, you have to accept some things, you cant change all, some is fix! accept what you cant change, change what is possible to change and improve, and learn to discern between both.
when it will work for you, all is fine, nothing against this, noone will ever say with hedging closing method there is no win possible, its only less win possible (by 100 % sure math, or in only intraday trading at best same win, but with more risk).noone needs to know your strategy to can tell you this fact, anyone can tell you this by simple know the math basic background. its like you trade with a broker with low rollover fees, and you will tell the people why not trade with big rollover fees. its exactly this is what will happen when you choose "hedging" as closing method against "closing and reopen" as closing method.

if you cant understand it now i give up , then you dont want learn anything or you are at a level, when you need to learn first how to learn.
  • #146
  • Apr 24, 2017 9:58pm Apr 24, 2017 9:58pm
I almost hate to respond to this thread because there have been such rigid opinions and hard feelings that any chance of learning anything has evaporated. Maybe I can bring some understanding if I can illustrate what I think are both sides of this argument. On the one hand, I don't think that entering and exiting both a buy and sell trade on the same instrument at the same time will do anything but lose money. I think we can all agree on that, hopefully. You have to pay the spread and possibly commission costs. You will lose money, guaranteed. On the other hand, I know that it is common industry practice to manage both long and short positions on the same class of instruments and even the same instrument generally using multiple accounts.

I personally trade multiple strategies on many different time frames, often on the same instrument, often by hedging, often algorithmically. They all have different position sizes and risk tolerance. One strategy that I use is to buy the bottom of a range and sell the top of a range without exiting the positions. If a break out or even a black swan happens, I am protected. Stop losses often do not work in black swans. If the range continues, I keep adding positions. Frequently, I am in a long term trade for fundamental reasons but want to take an opposite side scalp to profit from short term volatility. If I exit my long term trade just to take my scalp, then reenter my long term trade afterward I have just incurred extra costs. Spread, commission and swap are minor expenses really (of course a swap can profit.) I find that I am picking up pennies in front of a steam roller by worrying about them. Some of my strategies profit from the random nature of the market. I think one of the reasons 95% of traders fail miserably is because they think they can predict the market. If an instrument goes up 50 pips in one day, chances are price has traveled hundreds of pips that day. Why not profit on all of that? By entering and exiting the market often, keeping position sizes very small, not using a stop loss but protecting the account by hedging I find that I can profit from random market movements.

Is it possible that the differences of opinion here are because people are comparing apples to oranges? Make peace not war!!! Live long and prosper
  • #147
  • Apr 25, 2017 12:29am Apr 25, 2017 12:29am
Quoting FXRooster
I almost hate to respond to this thread because there have been such rigid opinions and hard feelings that any chance of learning anything has evaporated. Maybe I can bring some understanding if I can illustrate what I think are both sides of this argument. On the one hand, I don't think that entering and exiting both a buy and sell trade on the same instrument at the same time will do anything but lose money. I think we can all agree on that, hopefully. You have to pay the spread and possibly commission costs. You will lose money, guaranteed. On...

Hi


I personally trade multiple strategies on many different time frames, often on the same instrument, often by hedging, often algorithmically.

could you please explain the concept behind "algorithmically" .... will be pleased to learn something new

SB
trying to make everyday the best risk/reward decisions possible
  • #148
  • Apr 25, 2017 12:51am Apr 25, 2017 12:51am
I trade with bots running automatically, with "trade assistants" (bots under adult supervision , and manually. I could substitute the word mechanically for algorithmically for better clarity.
  • #149
  • Apr 25, 2017 12:58am Apr 25, 2017 12:58am
Quoting FXRooster
I trade with bots running automatically, with "trade assistants" (bots under adult supervision , and manually. I could substitute the word mechanically for algorithmically for better clarity.
Trade Assistants? That's Interesting, FX Rooster.

You mean people you hired?

Could you tell a bit on how this approach is going: Like how did you select the people, how much you pay, any NDA you have them signed, precautions you take vis a vis the risk of your algos/programs being leaked and your trades mirrored etc,,,

Thanks
  • #150
  • Apr 25, 2017 5:40am Apr 25, 2017 5:40am
Quoting aaven
{quote} Samer, Thanks for the write up. When you said Basket Hedging: Did you mean like my Post https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=657929 You said: "IF THE PRICE OF PAIR X WILL GO UP, THEN PAIR Z WILL GO DOWN AND ON THE SAME PAIR YOU WILL GET DOUBLE FLAOTING NEGATIVE LOSS THAT IT IS STILL NOT REMOVED YET ROM YOUR FUNDS BUT WHEN THE PAIRS AGAIN MOVE INTO CYCLE, WOW ALL HEDGED WILLBE CLOSED IN A MATTER OF FEW DAYS." Could you illustrate with the help of an example. Thanks

hi

example :
step 1 : self hedging pair
buy and sell as per your signal eu 0.01 tp 100 points then you will have 0.01 lot up and 0.01 lot sell the floating loss to begin is the double spread of value lets say 2x 0.01 x 20points = 0.4$

step 2 : directly , open two opposite pairs :

sell and buy 0.01 en and tp 100 points, and sell-buy 0.01 nu tp 100.

now the daily range is for the above three pairs is between 1000 to 1200 points... so, you make the tp only 100 points and you begin addingup with compounding if the market goes against you.

if the eu goes north, the e/n will go north too in most cases and nu will stay stagnant or will move down
so at least 2 pairs will get tp and one will get negative but also tp is touched.
but after few trail, if you make some wrong trades, the floating loss will increase slowly to big negative numbers.. but do not worry, if you keep building up and your balance will cover, no need to make the sl, if the floating loss is under the daily range, then you might and say might get touched at the end of gthe day for the t.

this is a very simple example
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #151
  • Edited 6:53am Apr 25, 2017 6:26am | Edited 6:53am
Quoting FXRooster
I almost hate to respond to this thread because there have been such rigid opinions and hard feelings that any chance of learning anything has evaporated. Maybe I can bring some understanding if I can illustrate what I think are both sides of this argument. On the one hand, I don't think that entering and exiting both a buy and sell trade on the same instrument at the same time will do anything but lose money. I think we can all agree on that, hopefully. You have to pay the spread and possibly commission costs. You will lose money, guaranteed. On...
yes, i told that for beginners or people with less programming knowledge (because starting to learn) hedging is maybe an option, but after you learn proper programming, hedging is no option any more, because any epert buying for you send trades to an general trading expert advisor, who manages all trades, and so will close trades when allready open opposite direction, and manages all trades for you. of course, when you start you split each strategy and use all independent. all do this. but after getting medium advanced trader, you start to see all together and trade like all is together. you will remember this in some months/years maybe.

and we dont speak about minor expenses, we speak often about 20-200% of the starting balance in 1 year as costs. i dont know where you see this as minor costs (for me it is not, but maybe for some with 100% wins per month its nothing) if somone hold positions for days. maybe you use most of the time only intraday trading hedging. many dont. for intraday hedging you only have the increased risk, but no additional costs.
  • #152
  • Apr 25, 2017 7:03am Apr 25, 2017 7:03am
Quoting aaven
{quote} Trade Assistants? That's Interesting, FX Rooster. You mean people you hired? Could you tell a bit on how this approach is going: Like how did you select the people, how much you pay, any NDA you have them signed, precautions you take vis a vis the risk of your algos/programs being leaked and your trades mirrored etc,,, Thanks
I tried to distinguish between EA's I use which are more or less autonomous and other EA's which have a more defined purpose. I was not referring to human employees. Some examples of EA's I use that are trade assistants are trade managers, trend line bots, bots that I use for a specific market condition that occurs like a strong trend, etc.
  • #153
  • Apr 25, 2017 7:22am Apr 25, 2017 7:22am
Quoting FXRooster
I almost hate to respond to this thread because there have been such rigid opinions and hard feelings that any chance of learning anything has evaporated. Maybe I can bring some understanding if I can illustrate what I think are both sides of this argument. On the one hand, I don't think that entering and exiting both a buy and sell trade on the same instrument at the same time will do anything but lose money. I think we can all agree on that, hopefully. You have to pay the spread and possibly commission costs. You will lose money, guaranteed. On...
I do hedge on the same pair but on very specific moment it’s a complex hedge and the wining ratio is superb. Would like to share but this is from years of research and development. The breakthrough was also contributed from a senior member in FF (thank you) to develop these skills you must be an advance trader.
Self discipline It is a practice
  • #154
  • Apr 25, 2017 7:39am Apr 25, 2017 7:39am
Quoting TGS
{quote} You could consider sharing a more vague description of your research. It will surely trigger some people but try to ignore those because it may also inspire others. In any case, congratulations on the breakthrough
Thanks mate, a few key words (momentum / intraday )
Self discipline It is a practice
  • #155
  • Apr 25, 2017 7:41am Apr 25, 2017 7:41am
Quoting okshop
{quote} I do hedge on the same pair but on very specific moment its a complex hedge and the wining ratio is superb. Would like to share but this is from years of research and development. The breakthrough was also contributed from a senior member in FF (thank you) to develop these skills you must be an advance trader.
this are stupid methods, done by beginner traders. dont tell people this is years of research and development. i have seen this done by people after 2 month trading. and you really think you did things many dont know or did not allready thought about. come on.

of course the revenge hedge methods in all his kinds are well known. is often working and some day a very big loss. with martingale used in this hedge trades maybe even extrem loss. and this is the hig winnign rate, of course you win often when you risk lose extrem high against.

you really sound like a total beginner, overrunned by simplest strategies who are "wow" for you.
  • #156
  • Apr 25, 2017 7:46am Apr 25, 2017 7:46am
Someone who has put me on ignore list and still commenting on my post. Wow this is a very desperate guy.
Self discipline It is a practice
  • #157
  • Apr 25, 2017 7:55am Apr 25, 2017 7:55am
Quoting okshop
Someone who has put me on ignore list and still commenting on my post. Wow this is a very desperate guy.
ignoring your comment that is so wrong that you can do problems for other new people is not very fair. you are an extrem beginner like tgs (exact same level) and you write many wrong things, i hope at least you dont know it better and dont do it on purpose.
  • #158
  • Apr 25, 2017 7:57am Apr 25, 2017 7:57am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} ignoring your comment that is so wrong that you can do problems for other new people is not very fair. you are an extrem beginner like tgs (exact same level) and you write many wrong things, i hope at least you dont know it better and dont do it on purpose.
Verb. put out a fire (third-person singular simple present puts out a fire, present participle putting out a fire, simple past and past participle put out a fire) (idiomatic) To address a problem, especially an unexpected one caused by the incompetence, negligence, or misconduct of another person.
Self discipline It is a practice
  • #159
  • Edited 8:14am Apr 25, 2017 8:00am | Edited 8:14am
Quoting okshop
{quote} Verb. put out a fire (third-person singular simple present puts out a fire, present participle putting out a fire, simple past and past participle put out a fire) (idiomatic) To address a problem, especially an unexpected one caused by the incompetence, negligence, or misconduct of another person.
no arguments, only trolling, you look like tgs. 2 trolls at same skills. wow. on the end you celebrate a party together and each of you will call the other god trader. but what will this bring?`nothing, you can call you good all the time, all you write shows you are a troll and dont know basics. point.

arumenting with trolls like you is like speaking to a little child, you dont learn, you dont argument, you only cry and tell stupid sentences. start repeating, i wait for it.
  • #160
  • Apr 25, 2017 8:07am Apr 25, 2017 8:07am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} no arguments, only trolling, you look like tgs. 2 trolls at same skills. wow. on the end you celebrate a party together and each of you will call the other god trader. but what will this bring?`nothing, you can call you good all the time, all you write shows you are a troll and dont know basics. point.
Anyone who has ever argued with people like this, or has witnessed some poor soul try, knows the futility of the endeavor.
Self discipline It is a practice
0 traders viewing now