Brexit: People want to scrap EU freedom of movement but continue free trade with Europe, says new UK survey

Quoting cliffedwards

Disliked

And as Shakespeare wrote 300 years ago.. Theres the Rub.. Our government figures show that immigration from OUTSIDE the EU has always exceeded that under freedom of movement.requirement under EU treaties.. CONTROL and REDUCTION of that NonEU immigration level was totally unconstrained by treaty or Freedom of movement.Totally in the authority of our British government. And Mrs May. Then Home Secretary. That NonEU immigration into our country continued DESPITE Mrs Mays commitment to reduce immigration. Instead she and the UKIP element in the Conservative...

Ignored

sorry cliff here in Australia a poli says its all right to lie when campaigning then lie when asked why did you lie , " its not what I said " " that's not what I meant

Not-KPMG

Mar 22, 2017 9:59am

Quoting SickOfScam

Disliked

{quote} {quote} {quote} {quote} This guy and his everyday lies become a nightmare.

Ignored

Only if you choose to read

I see his name

ignored and laugh every time....

Got his picture too

I apologize to all and any TROLLS that are offended by comparison with Devaux!!

Attached Image

Mar 22, 2017 12:10am

Is it so surprising that the public would WANT to maintain free trade while ending free movement?

Is it so surprising the tax paying public DON'T WANT migrants to be able to claim tax payer funded benefits?

Perhaps another poll asking well phrased relevant questions would be more worthy of publishing here in FF.

Mar 22, 2017 6:06am

Quoting cliffedwards

Disliked

As @Ill-b-back noted above.. A predictable poll result.given questions asked. But useful in raising a more basic questions. One issue it raises however is whether all of us last July, fully understood that we couldnt continue free movement/trade in Goods - Services and Capital, with EU if we opted out of the free movement of labour... (for EU citizens ONLY.) Or if we were misled? Or if we were all aware last July, that Free Movement applies ONLY to EU CITIZENS. Not Refugees or migrants accepted into other EU countries from without. Or if we were...

Ignored

I certainly think we were misled. UKIP set all this in motion without a clue what the outcome would be. Nigel Farage, on the face of it, convinced a whole lot of people with his smart talk. In fact I think he now has a radio show full of smart talk. Unfortunately, he talks smart but couldn't manage a Sunday League football team. (I think that may be quite difficult so maybe not a good example)

Where is Michael Gove now? I listened to his excruciating speech apologising to Terse May, asking for forgiveness. She couldn't sack Boris but she certainly sidelined him.

So Teresa May and the poor, embattled Conservative Party are given the task of running this country while negotiating an exit from a market of 500 million people. Sorry, 450 million now the UK is leaving. Even with no effective opposition, they don't seem to have a clue what they are doing. Who can blame them?

Not-KPMG

Mar 22, 2017 8:27am

Quoting cliffedwards

Disliked

As @Ill-b-back noted above.. A predictable poll result.given questions asked. But useful in raising a more basic questions. One issue it raises however is whether all of us last July, fully understood that we couldnt continue free movement/trade in Goods - Services and Capital, with EU if we opted out of the free movement of labour... (for EU citizens ONLY.) Or if we were misled?... ...

Ignored

Hi guys
Respect for the sensible opinions!!

3 things if I may say

Don't believe any politician or banker.!!!!

The public is easily swayed, naive,.... other unpleasant epithets deleted by my lawyer..... Look at America, middle east...... So people almost always make bad choices. Me too!!

Why waste time rehashing the same old story

I'm typing while waiting for Euro moves BTW.

GL.

Mar 22, 2017 12:13am

Quoting Not-KPMG

Disliked

Good joke this. And i want to go shopping, grab one of these buy-1-get-1-free deals, then CHANGE MY MIND AT THE TILL, leave 1 stock and walk out with THE FREE ONE ONLY!!!! Yep. That'll work!!!!! I mean it's free. Why pay!?!?!??

Ignored

If you were to ask me would I WANT that type of arrangement to be made available to me at the supermarket,

What do you think I might say?

Mar 22, 2017 12:51am

Quoting Pip-Miner

Disliked

{quote} Great way to ruin a country , hold a referendum. Why not hold one to give all your money to the government - probably go through as well with the correct propaganda material.

Ignored

Your exaggerated example serves no purpose in highlighting the point you are trying to make.

glenngie

Mar 21, 2017 2:03pm

good post cliff...... it's the unknown that spooks markets and businesses.....

Trader#458C

Mar 21, 2017 10:51pm

In other words its like i dont attend the party but i still want a huge piece of cake ,,,,,,,,,,,,yeah right

cliffedwards

Mar 22, 2017 5:53am

As @Ill-b-back noted above.. A predictable poll result.given questions asked.
But useful in raising a more basic questions.

One issue it raises however is whether all of us last July, fully understood that we couldnt continue free movement/trade in Goods - Services and Capital, with EU if we opted out of the free movement of labour... (for EU citizens ONLY.)
Or if we were misled?

Or if we were all aware last July, that Free Movement applies ONLY to EU CITIZENS. Not Refugees or migrants accepted into other EU countries from without.
Or if we were were misled?.

Not-KPMG

Mar 21, 2017 2:08pm

Good joke this.

And i want to go shopping, grab one of these buy-1-get-1-free deals, then CHANGE MY MIND AT THE TILL, leave 1 stock and walk out with THE FREE ONE ONLY!!!!

Yep.
That'll work!!!!!

I mean it's free. Why pay!?!?!??

shinny

Mar 21, 2017 2:21pm

Quoting cliffedwards

Disliked

And as Shakespeare wrote 300 years ago.. Theres the Rub.. Our government figures show that immigration from OUTSIDE the EU has always exceeded that under freedom of movement.requirement under EU treaties.. CONTROL and REDUCTION of that NonEU immigration level was totally unconstrained by treaty or Freedom of movement.Totally in the authority of our British government. And Mrs May. Then Home Secretary. That NonEU immigration into our country continued DESPITE Mrs Mays commitment to reduce immigration. Instead she and the UKIP element in the Conservative...

Ignored

Hi Cliff

Non-EU net migration peaked at around 250k in 2003, and last year (upto Sep 2016) was around 165k, which was the same as EU net migration.

The reasons the migrants come, however, is very different, 45% of EU migrants come for a job, 27% looking for work and only 13% to study. Non EU migrants however are 23% for a job, 9% looking for a job and 41% to study.

So migration does have an effect on the local labour market, 72% EU either working/looking for work, and 32% Non-EU migrants working/looking for work.

So your post isn't 100% accurate.

Here is the link I pulled this data from: https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

But I do agree that the Government has lied about immigration wholesale, they either can't or won't do anything about it!!!!

Cheers
Shaun

Mar 22, 2017 5:43am

People people public public. What the people want and what they can have are two different things. Ask any self employed person.

Devauxt. Your nonsensical posts continue. Is English your first language? I ask because you fail to see why people want to travel to an English speaking country. The EU is incapable of controlling its outer borders. What is abnormal about that? You say these migrants travel around Europe unmolested. Unmolested? Would you like them to be molested? Or do you mean they should be subjected to immigration procedures before they arrive in Calais? (I may be inadvertently helping you out here)

Perhaps more walls are what you want? What is your point? How has immigration affected you personally? How do you think it will affect the Euro? Or the Pound (1.25 was as high as it went).

Mar 22, 2017 9:45am

Quoting cliffedwards

Disliked

As @Ill-b-back noted above.. A predictable poll result.given questions asked. But useful in raising a more basic questions. One issue it raises however is whether all of us last July, fully understood that we couldnt continue free movement/trade in Goods - Services and Capital, with EU if we opted out of the free movement of labour... (for EU citizens ONLY.) Or if we were misled? Or if we were all aware last July, that Free Movement applies ONLY to EU CITIZENS. Not Refugees or migrants accepted into other EU countries from without. Or if we were...

Ignored

I think that could be a bit presumptuous.
It gets back to the simplistic nature of the question.
What would you want...?
My understanding is that UK didn't vote out of Free movement but out of the EU. While I understand the free movement underpinned the Brexit promotion, it was a removal of UK from EU referendum. I was of the opinion that UK could NOT have it's cake and eat it too when this issue was first raised in the media, but personally I don't see how a poll such as this could suggest anything more than what the public would like (in it's most selfish form).

frx_trader

Mar 22, 2017 12:30am — Edited

Quoting g_56c00bd5

Disliked

In other words its like i dont attend the party but i still want a huge piece of cake ,,,,,,,,,,,,yeah right

Ignored

How about the cakes are all gone. Well, small tiny piece for your tongue.

Mar 21, 2017 9:56pm

"CONTROL and REDUCTION of that NonEU immigration level was totally unconstrained by treaty or Freedom of movement.Totally in the authority of our British government"
That is correct.

Friend of mine seen an nice picture mem "British fought at WII until last Pols"

A Mr Trump should build other wall around UK.

No Acces to SINGLE MARKET without free movment of EU members!!!!!!

No cherrys picking.

UK STARTED BREXIT TO LATE -
THEY WILL LOST NON_BRITISH SAVINGS (MONEY FROM CURRENT AC) AND HUMAN CAPITAL - YES 1ST GENERATION OF YOUNG IMIGRANTS LIVING PRIMERY SCHOOL = THEY WERE PAID FOR EDUCATION FROM TAXPAYER MONEY.

Mar 21, 2017 10:08pm

Quoting Not-KPMG

Disliked

Good joke this. And i want to go shopping, grab one of these buy-1-get-1-free deals, then CHANGE MY MIND AT THE TILL, leave 1 stock and walk out with THE FREE ONE ONLY!!!! Yep. That'll work!!!!! I mean it's free. Why pay!?!?!??

Ignored

So single market is the free only :-) ?

cliffedwards

Mar 21, 2017 1:39pm

And as Shakespeare wrote 300 years ago..
Theres the Rub..

Our government figures show that immigration from OUTSIDE the EU has always exceeded that under freedom of movement.requirement under EU treaties..

CONTROL and REDUCTION of that NonEU immigration level was totally unconstrained by treaty or Freedom of movement.Totally in the authority of our British government. And Mrs May. Then Home Secretary.
That NonEU immigration into our country continued DESPITE Mrs Mays commitment to reduce immigration.

Instead she and the UKIP element in the Conservative Party blamed their inaction in reducing immigration on the EU??????????????????????????????????? And the Freedom of Movement obligation.

Now you will see the extent of the SCAM , LIES, and MISREPRESENTATION that has been plied by the our Government, and spun out to the stupid UK Yellow Media, scared shitless by the threat of fascism from UKIP.. and who shamelessly blamed their failure to rein in immigration on the EU..
Its Beyond contempt.

rocketron5

Mar 21, 2017 4:01pm

Its A single market not THE single market. please stop making the EU seem like the only market available.

Mar 22, 2017 6:46am

Where's jen101 and Thunderjar? I really wanted this comments thread to decline into trivial second rate playground taunts, then get pulled by moderators.

PaulVic

Mar 22, 2017 9:58am

Quoting Devauxt

Disliked

{quote} You seem to be under the misapprehension that you have some entitlement to information regarding my personal experience. Reality check......You don't. You seem to think very highly of yourself....well, someone has to

Ignored

Devauxt, why do you even bother responding to this bolxx. Leave the lefties to argue amongst themselves, as usual. They still dont get that UK does not want to cheery pick, as for the EUs freemarket, what a bunch of hypocrites.
You will never get a sensible discussion with a liberal, or an unbiased/not twisted "report" from the Independent!

Mar 22, 2017 4:33am

Quoting Ill-b-back

Disliked

Is it so surprising that the public would WANT to maintain free trade while ending free movement? Is it so surprising the tax paying public DON'T WANT migrants to be able to claim tax payer funded benefits? Perhaps another poll asking well phrased relevant questions would be more worthy of publishing here in FF.

Ignored

Immigration is a challenge for the UK and does put a strain on Housing, Schools and Healthcare, but it not just immigration from the EU but also from non EU countries as well.

However immigration has been seized upon by the electorate probably because it represents some of what they see is wrong with the EU and it is one of the most tangible consequences of being member of the EU. The electorate can see that this challenge is not going to get better but is in reality going to get worse as the EU expands and continues to take in more and more migrants from the Middle East and Africa and are eventually granted residency When the EU courts especially the ECHR continually thwart the efforts of Government to eject foreign criminals, rapists, hate preachers and terrorist sympathisers, it further enforces that view. The UK electorate recognises that the EU is utterly incapable of controlling its outer boarders and a prime and very public example of this is the migrant camp at Calais. These migrants had to cross several European borders in order to get there but managed to do so unmolested. Attempts by the Government to the EU to make necessary changes in EU legislation to assist the UK have fallen on EU deaf ears as usual. Cameron's very public failed negotiation with the EU proved that the EU has no interest in assisting the UK with this challenge

Mar 22, 2017 6:14am

Let's have a look at how it will affect the Pound, the fact that people, according to a poll, want free trade with the EU, but not freedom of movement. I loved the last line of the article:
“Many Remain voters would like to see an end to the less popular parts of Britain’s current membership of the EU, while many Leave voters would like to retain the seemingly more desirable parts, such as free trade, cheap mobile phone calls, and clean beaches,” he told the..."

Mar 22, 2017 6:33am

Quoting Ill-b-back

Disliked

{quote} Your exaggerated example serves no purpose in highlighting the point you are trying to make.

Ignored

You are in the Antipodes but you will get this eventually. I think it's a good example. It's clearly put with a sense of the ridiculous. Very British. Oops should I say Australian?

I note now the Daily Mail is having a go at Liberal "Luvvies" now it has failed to make international superstar celebrities out of its heroes Farage and Gove. Very dangerous, Mr Daily Male and Femail. I should warn you they have all been strongly influenced by "Inglorious Basterds" and now are Liberal Fundamentalist Scalpers.

Mar 22, 2017 8:54am

Quoting Devauxt

Disliked

{quote} One day smikester, you will back some of your diatribe with some facts. It is easy to shoot your mouth off like you so often do, without an iota of proof or research

Ignored

I've got plenty of facts for you. This is a currency site. You do not comment on currency. You try to spread islamaphobic nonsense. Here's a link to a fact: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/increased-immigration-crime-america-research-cato-institute-sentencing-project-a7639421.html

Want a link to a Youtube video of a guy shooting his mouth off with false news: http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/

Sorry. Wrong link. I do remember you linking to some hater tosser who lied for about 20 minutes. I did not watch all of it.

All the above are facts.

Mar 22, 2017 10:01am

Quoting PaulVic

Disliked

{quote} Devauxt, why do you even bother responding to this bolxx. Leave the lefties to argue amongst themselves, as usual. They still dont get that UK does not want to cheery pick, as for the EUs freemarket, what a bunch of hypocrites. You will never get a sensible discussion with a liberal, or an unbiased/not twisted "report" from the Independent!

Ignored

I'm not left wing or liberal. Are you talking about someone else?

Mar 22, 2017 10:03am

Quoting PaulVic

Disliked

{quote} Devauxt, why do you even bother responding to this bolxx. Leave the lefties to argue amongst themselves, as usual. They still dont get that UK does not want to cheery pick, as for the EUs freemarket, what a bunch of hypocrites. You will never get a sensible discussion with a liberal, or an unbiased/not twisted "report" from the Independent!

Ignored

Do you even know what this news item is about?

Mar 21, 2017 9:59pm

Quoting rocketron5

Disliked

Its A single market not THE single market. please stop making the EU seem like the only market available.

Ignored

That is ok but trade with NonEU contrys will cost more on petrol/diesl and avaiton fuel.

Mar 21, 2017 10:06pm

Quoting shinny

Disliked

{quote} Hi Cliff Non-EU net migration peaked at around 250k in 2003, and last year (upto Sep 2016) was around 165k, which was the same as EU net migration. The reasons the migrants come, however, is very different, 45% of EU migrants come for a job, 27% looking for work and only 13% to study. Non EU migrants however are 23% for a job, 9% looking for a job and 41% to study. So migration does have an effect on the local labour market, 72% EU either working/looking for work, and 32% Non-EU migrants working/looking for work. So your post isn't 100%...

Ignored

So single market is the free only :-) ?

glenngie

Mar 21, 2017 1:35pm

People should be able to travel freely, at least to the topless beaches

Can't believe they would want to give that up.

Seriously.....sounds like it would have been better to work for reform from inside the EU as far as immigration. It is going to be a confusing few years until homeostasis settles in.

Trader#B250

Mar 21, 2017 5:21pm

Migration theory is fine but employers use it to hire immigrant skilled workers at low rates of pay rather than award apprenticeships to home grown talent, be they vets or brick layers. Their reasoning is, why educate a local person as an apprentice when one can hire a ready trained one from Europe. No thought is given to the fact that a vet or brick re-located to the UK from, say, Lithuania, means that there is one less skilled vet or bricklayer in Lithuania.

Stu Effex

Mar 22, 2017 9:50am

Quoting smikester

Disliked

{quote} I've got plenty of facts for you. This is a currency site. You do not comment on currency. You try to spread islamaphobic nonsense. Here's a link to a fact: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/increased-immigration-crime-america-research-cato-institute-sentencing-project-a7639421.html Want a link to a Youtube video of a guy shooting his mouth off with false news: http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ Sorry. Wrong link. I do remember you linking to some hater tosser who lied for...

Ignored

Smikester you are a buffoon, you give reference to nonsense issued by the Swedish government. Is it a joke ? It doesn't cross your mind that governments are notorious liars and say anything to protect their position. The people of Sweden are were you need to get your information from and the internet is awash with footage from people on the ground who can confirm the crap from the government is for idiots like you who still believe in Santa Claus. Open your eyes man.

Mar 22, 2017 8:58am

Oh, and I'm still waiting for your answers on how immigration has affected you personally? Don't ignore my questions and then say I'm shooting my mouth off.

cliffedwards

Mar 21, 2017 2:31pm

Quoting shinny

Disliked

{quote} Hi Cliff Non-EU net migration peaked at around 250k in 2003, and last year (upto Sep 2016) was around 165k, which was the same as EU net migration. The reasons the migrants come, however, is very different, 45% of EU migrants come for a job, 27% looking for work and only 13% to study. Non EU migrants however are 23% for a job, 9% looking for a job and 41% to study. So migration does have an effect on the local labour market, 72% EU either working/looking for work, and 32% Non-EU migrants working/looking for work. So your post isn't 100%...

Ignored

Shaun.. Your points fair and well made.. I fully acknowledge mate.
However I would counter that with our employment rate at record levels and daily reports of skill shortages, its hard to justiify any claim that EU Free Movement is depriving any willing UK worker of employment..
In an economy so heavily dependent on EU migrant talent for its buoyancy it doesnt make sense to me to focus on a problem that doesnt really exist? Still less to embark on a reckless adventurist exploit like Brexit in the name of such a proposition?

Mar 22, 2017 8:35am

Quoting smikester

Disliked

People people public public. What the people want and what they can have are two different things. Ask any self employed person. Devauxt. Your nonsensical posts continue. Is English your first language? I ask because you fail to see why people want to travel to an English speaking country. The EU is incapable of controlling its outer borders. What is abnormal about that? You say these migrants travel around Europe unmolested. Unmolested? Would you like them to be molested? Or do you mean they should be subjected to immigration procedures before...

Ignored

One day smikester, you will back some of your diatribe with some facts. It is easy to shoot your mouth off like you so often do, without an iota of proof or research

Mar 22, 2017 9:24am

Quoting smikester

Disliked

Oh, and I'm still waiting for your answers on how immigration has affected you personally? Don't ignore my questions and then say I'm shooting my mouth off.

Ignored

You seem to be under the misapprehension that you have some entitlement to information regarding my personal experience. Reality check......You don't. You seem to think very highly of yourself....well, someone has to

SickOfScam

Mar 22, 2017 9:52am

Quoting Devauxt

Disliked

---this piece from Lord Digby Jones will give you a good sense of the frustration felt by the UK electorate and just how undemocratic the EU really is.

Ignored

Quoting smikester

Disliked

Do you really abide by the opinion of the (unelected) Lord Digby Jones?

Ignored

Quoting Devauxt

Disliked

I don't see why someone has to be elected in order to ....

Ignored

Quoting Devauxt

Disliked

{quote} Brexit is the only way to stop it.
- Wanting to be able to elect or fire any and all of your governing body is neither fascist nor nationalist.
- Being free to establish your own laws without reference to an unelected authoritarian body is neither Fascist nor Nationalist

Ignored

This guy and his everyday lies become a nightmare.

Mar 22, 2017 10:04am

Quoting SickOfScam

Disliked

{quote} {quote} {quote} {quote} This guy and his everyday lies become a nightmare.

Ignored

In the same way that smikester cannot back up any of his comments with facts or research, you too have also failed to support any of you diatribe with facts or research. The use of the highlighter function is no substitute for facts and is merely the "chat room" equivalent of shouting, which is about as good as you get

Trader#6168

Mar 21, 2017 3:05pm

It surprises me that someone so left wing should defend eu immigration that has depressed wages of the very poorest in the UK, this was the reason why the majority voted out.

Mar 22, 2017 9:16am