Most traders fail because of no discipline! | Page 50 | Forex Factory

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Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #981
  • Mar 15, 2017 8:39am Mar 15, 2017 8:39am
Quoting HeyYou
So how many discipline lovers have improved their performance ?
you can improve it, if your other parts like strategy, moneymanagement, timevalue,.... is correct.

but you can never say, almost 80-90% of traders fail due to lack of discipline and poor risk management, because this is not true.
  • #982
  • Mar 15, 2017 8:50am Mar 15, 2017 8:50am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} you can improve it, if your other parts like strategy, moneymanagement, timevalue,.... is correct. but you can never say, almost 80-90% of traders fail due to lack of discipline and poor risk management, because this is not true.
99% fail and I'm sure it's mostly because they lack self awareness.. a trader is also a meditator.
  • #983
  • Mar 15, 2017 8:57am Mar 15, 2017 8:57am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} 99% fail and I'm sure it's mostly because they lack self awareness.. a trader is also a meditator.
no, because many have to fail. if not there would no winners payable. if there are not some big winners (payed from many losers), many would not try to get sucess in this business and so much less would lose. its a circle. but its difficult to say this again and again, many allways come around the corner with other things. there are not many truth, there is only one big truth when you speak about 99% lose. you cant change a market structure, many dont know what this is or how the market is structured and thats why maybe there are some discussions, but why so many lose is easy to tell and will be so allways and just normal.

you need one time learn the basics and you will never come to this discussion again.
  • #984
  • Mar 15, 2017 9:07am Mar 15, 2017 9:07am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} no, because many have to fail. if not there would no winners payable. if not some big winners, many would not try to get sucess in this business and so much less would lose. its a circle. but its difficult to say this again and again, many allways come around the corner with other things. there are not many truth, there is only one big truth when you speak about 99% lose. you cant change a market structure, many dont know what this is or how the market is structured and thats why maybe there are some discussions, but why so many lose is...
Not so complicated IMO, being aware of your thoughts and feelings gives more clarity.. then once you get out of the dreaming state all you have to do is finding a system/MM that fits "you".
  • #985
  • Mar 15, 2017 9:07am Mar 15, 2017 9:07am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} no, because many have to fail. if not there would no winners payable. if there are not some big winners (payed from many losers), many would not try to get sucess in this business and so much less would lose. its a circle. but its difficult to say this again and again, many allways come around the corner with other things. there are not many truth, there is only one big truth when you speak about 99% lose. you cant change a market structure, many dont know what this is or how the market is structured and thats why maybe there are some discussions,...
Great Words Dukas_Trader...
  • #986
  • Mar 15, 2017 9:45am Mar 15, 2017 9:45am
No amount of discipline or "controlling your emotion" will help.
  • #987
  • Mar 15, 2017 10:19am Mar 15, 2017 10:19am
A truly knowledgeable trader would be able to control his/her emotions and greed! He/she can set a perfect trading plan in his/her live trading account! That’s way, for me …….. knowledge is the key point here! Such as, I was with over trading problem in my 1st 6 months demo practice because then I didn’t know about dissimilar of over trading!
  • #988
  • Mar 15, 2017 10:26am Mar 15, 2017 10:26am
If you want to be a professional trader, you have to act like one

http://www.tradeciety.com/the-perfec...by-step-guide/
  • #989
  • Mar 15, 2017 11:36am Mar 15, 2017 11:36am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} Not so complicated IMO, being aware of your thoughts and feelings gives more clarity.. then once you get out of the dreaming state all you have to do is finding a system/MM that fits "you".
if you speak to a single person this can help, when you would say that this could help the 80% losers same time then this cant work. when all would do this style you will have same problem like before!

always there need to be the loser to have some winners. so you can help some persons, but even after helping 80-90 % will lose.
its really extrem simple: if someone who lost each month 1000 euro and now after the help will now have lets say 100 euro win/month, he has maybe around 1200 euro put away from the winners (exact amount depends on how many true spread and commission and rollover was paid to get this win). and this is only a simple example. so same time you reduce losers money you reduce winners money. if now all loser would trade this style by math it could be no more winners any more? even they cant get all winners, without you produce on the other side again losers. its really a circle, 1 decision of each market member has impact to all, offcourse bigger market members have much bigger impact.

when we learned the basics long time ago, all was teached correctly. in the last years, near nobody seems to know the basics and people think about problems, that are no problems and only market struture normal status. there are no really good market teacher outside, because most have to be teacher because they cant win enough with trading and earn more by selling how to do it. offcourse when many doit this way, it cant work any more (if it worked before is even a other topic). its like in old gold mining days. not the gold miners was biggest winners, it was the paddle sellers and people who told, how to find gold...
  • #990
  • Edited 12:27pm Mar 15, 2017 12:15pm | Edited 12:27pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} if you speak to a single person this can help, when you would say that this could help the 80% losers same time then this cant work. when all would do this style you will have same problem like before! always there need to be the loser to have some winners. so you can help some persons, but even after helping 80-90 % will lose. its really extrem simple: if someone who lost each month 1000 euro and now after the help will now have lets say 100 euro win/month, he has maybe around 1200 euro put away from the winners (exact amount depends on...
Absolutely, any market if traded short term is a "zero sum game". In fact I was talking to myself, like we all do on trading forums, we all give good advices to ourselveslol.
  • #991
  • Mar 15, 2017 2:29pm Mar 15, 2017 2:29pm
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} Absolutely, any market if traded short term is a "zero sum game". In fact I was talking to myself, like we all do on trading forums, we all give good advices to ourselveslol.
even long term, this doesnt matter. you only see much less impact with higher volume trading, because any market member is much smaller in long term area.
  • #992
  • Mar 16, 2017 4:00am Mar 16, 2017 4:00am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} Absolutely, any market if traded short term is a "zero sum game". In fact I was talking to myself, like we all do on trading forums, we all give good advices to ourselveslol.
Maybe it is not really an exact zero sum game because there are more losers than winners so somebody's pocket will get fat in the long run,plus the brokers get the spread and commissions...its the losing traders that are feeding money to the winning traders, brokers and liquidity providers....so to be profitable in trading its either strive to be a winning trader, be a broker or a liquidity provider. Most of us here already knows what to do to be a profitable trader, the problem is implementation.
  • #993
  • Edited 12:28pm Mar 16, 2017 5:40am | Edited 12:28pm
Quoting techboy46
{quote} Maybe it is not really an exact zero sum game because there are more losers than winners so somebody's pocket will get fat in the long run,plus the brokers get the spread and commissions...its the losing traders that are feeding money to the winning traders, brokers and liquidity providers....so to be profitable in trading its either strive to be a winning trader, be a broker or a liquidity provider. Most of us here already knows what to do to be a profitable trader, the problem is implementation.
Apart from spread/commisions it is 100% 0 sum.. yeah in the retail world we have many more losers than winners but winners win "big" (brokers/LP's) and losers lose "small".

My suggestion was to listen instead of improving/ignoring/repressing our "weaknesses"... they could definitely be strengths!
  • #994
  • Edited 8:01am Mar 16, 2017 7:36am | Edited 8:01am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} Apart from spread/commisions it is 100% 0 sum.. yeah in the retail world we have more losers than winners but winners win "big" (brokers/LP's) and losers lose "small". My suggestion was to listen instead of improve/ignore/repress our "weaknesses"... they could definitely be strenghts!
the problem is in real live, that spread are biggest part because of many are in minus. calculate your true spread together, you did pay over 1 year. calculate this in money payed and not in pips ( so recalculate the pips in level to your traded lots) ! if you are in the win in this year, this true spread have other people to lose (additionally to your win) same time. often this part is even much bigger then your win, but many cant see it or dont know it. of course its not easy to calculate the true spread correctly all the time with the orders in history. if you trade longterm some trades same time, then maybe the "win" part is more important. but many dont do so. if you are a short term trader you have often 50-500% true spread generated, that needs to be losses by other people same time , if you are a winner.

if you are loss in this year and with a marketmaker broker, then you will be by best chance in his b book, and other traders dont have to lose your true spread, because your broker is your opponent part and takes this wins.

so saying apart from spread is impossible, because then you need to say too: apart from losses.

the brokers are market members like traders to. so the spread/commission/rollover are not away, they need to put in calculation if you think about the market as zero sum market. and only when all market members are in, then its possible to speak about this correctly. never put out the spread as the maybe most importanst thing in trading. this true spread seperates the winners from the losers when calculated ok and put in plan with the trading system.
  • #995
  • Mar 16, 2017 7:46am Mar 16, 2017 7:46am
You cant stop the train

the market just wants to get in your pants... and inevitably... it already has

You slut =p

Inserted Video
Time hides Nothing
  • #996
  • Mar 16, 2017 12:37pm Mar 16, 2017 12:37pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} the problem is in real live, that spread are biggest part because of many are in minus. calculate your true spread together, you did pay over 1 year. calculate this in money payed and not in pips ( so recalculate the pips in level to your traded lots) ! if you are in the win in this year, this true spread have other people to lose (additionally to your win) same time. often this part is even much bigger then your win, but many cant see it or dont know it. of course its not easy to calculate the true spread correctly all the time with the...
I'm not sure to understand what you mean. If you mean that spread is killer, I totally agree with you.. 1 tiny pip becomes 100 pips after just 100 trades.

Btw I made hundred of tests with both random and effective strategies lol

here's an example:
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...95#post8839995
  • #997
  • Mar 16, 2017 1:04pm Mar 16, 2017 1:04pm
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} I'm not sure to understand what you mean. If you mean that spread is killer, I totally agree with you.. 1 tiny pip becomes 100 pips after just 100 trades. Btw I made hundred of tests with both random and effective strategies lol here's an example: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...95#post8839995
i was only mention that the true payed spread is more important often then the wins someone did (for calculating losses in the whole market). the spread needs to be compensated by loser traders more then the wins.

and only with spread, commission ... its a zero sum game, without it would not. i was answering your sentence some lines before.
  • #998
  • Mar 16, 2017 1:18pm Mar 16, 2017 1:18pm
Quoting techboy46
{quote} Maybe it is not really an exact zero sum game because there are more losers than winners so somebody's pocket will get fat in the long run,plus the brokers get the spread and commissions...its the losing traders that are feeding money to the winning traders, brokers and liquidity providers....so to be profitable in trading its either strive to be a winning trader, be a broker or a liquidity provider. Most of us here already knows what to do to be a profitable trader, the problem is implementation.
in true trading live, the winning traders, the around break even traders, the small losing traders take the biggest part away from the big losing traders. the brokers and lp (when dont use b book) are payed by commission/rollover and part of the spread (depends on the broker).

its exact a zero sum game, brokers and lp are also market members of course, they simple help you to get smaller spreads, faster execution and a possible game.
  • #999
  • Mar 16, 2017 1:44pm Mar 16, 2017 1:44pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} in true trading live, the winning traders, the around break even traders, the small losing traders take the biggest part away from the big losing traders. the brokers and lp (when dont use b book) are payed by commission/rollover and part of the spread (depends on the broker). its exact a zero sum game, brokers and lp are also market members of course, they simple help you to get smaller spreads, faster execution and a possible game.
I might be wrong but if I PAY to open/close a position then it's not a zero sum but a negative sum, that's why I said "apart from spread" it's a zero sum, because we compete with each others... plus we pay a fee.
Assuming that we deal with commercial banks (a-booking) then it can be a positive sum because central banks print money for our counterparts from time to time..but this is just fantasy actually, I believe most brokers don't pass any order outside.
  • #1,000
  • Mar 16, 2017 1:48pm Mar 16, 2017 1:48pm
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} I might be wrong but if I PAY to open/close a position then it's not a zero sum but a negative sum, that's why I said "apart from spread" it's a zero sum, because we compete with each others... plus we pay a fee. Assuming that we deal with commercial banks (a-booking) then it can be a positive sum because central banks print money for our counterparts..but this is just fantasy actually, I believe most brokers don't pass any order outside.
no its perfect zero sum game. i dont understand why you come to positive or negative sum results. show me some example calculation with lets say 4 traders and 1 broker (so 5 market members). what you calculate different that you came to this different then zero sum result?
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