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  • #641
  • Feb 25, 2017 8:03am Feb 25, 2017 8:03am
Quoting The Cableguy
Just came across a chart from a year ago (almost to the day) of the Q's (weekly), highlighting what i said about recognising ABC's as corrective = HH's to follow; {image} and today's; {image} That's quite a few ticks, truth be told!
Thanks CG. Informative charts and food for thought.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #642
  • Feb 25, 2017 9:22am Feb 25, 2017 9:22am
Quoting Divergence
That candle your pointing to is the pullback how would I know to put a limit at it's bottom when market makes HH and a HL the a BY I want to take pullback at last HL the 1 candle pullback is last HL
I see. Thank you Div/H. Pls pardon a newbie for the many questions.

Looking forward to the webinar.

All the best
  • #643
  • Edited 5:53pm Feb 25, 2017 3:08pm | Edited 5:53pm
Back to my question about trading this system with the DOM / Volume Profile / www.jigsawtrading.com / footprint charts etc...

The reason I am asking is because I've noticed situations where the wicks of different candles keep returning to a previous price implying an obvious s/d area (which makes sense -- all the talk about different candles with even the same platform and data feeds implies that the top or bottom of the body of the candle is slightly arbitrary) even though there was no candle body and only wick, or a similar situation. So to those who said they use any of the above to enter or exit (or to anyone else who didn't respond last time) my question is...

how do you use them to enter? or exit?
Thanks.
  • #644
  • Feb 25, 2017 7:29pm Feb 25, 2017 7:29pm
Quoting Divergence
don't forget webinar sunday https://pullbacktrading.webinarninja...binar_id=62182 you need google chrome to enter don't use windows explorer
Last chance
  • #645
  • Feb 26, 2017 1:59am Feb 26, 2017 1:59am
Quoting Ygr
Back to my question about trading this system with the DOM / Volume Profile / www.jigsawtrading.com / footprint charts etc...

... how do you use them to enter? or exit? Thanks.
Ygr - I'm guessing you already know that Jigsaw have a forum of their own & that Peter Davies is a very helpful chap ? He is also a regular at futures.io.

What is unusual on this thread is that Harold posts frequent videos showing and describing exactly where he enters & exits. Have you tried to follow along on your own charts, one bar at a time - this is a good way to get into the swing by actually doing it ? Harold clearly doesn't use VP, Market Delta etc etc, so why keep asking here (you might find it very useful, you just need to learn about it from people who use it) ?

The other thing is to fully grasp what Douglas describes in Trading in the Zone (a must-read) : once your method AND mindset are correct, you don't need to know what will happen next to make money in the market.
  • #646
  • Feb 26, 2017 2:30am Feb 26, 2017 2:30am
I thought I explained why I asked because what is an entry on one chart looks like a doji on another so I was wondering if our collective brainpower could find another way to identify entries. Many people on this thread have complained of missing entries, because of that reason. understand?
  • #647
  • Feb 26, 2017 4:16am Feb 26, 2017 4:16am
All I can suggest, Ygr, is that you do what those who seem to be responded to most fully do : post a chart, in your case showing where a doji caused you to miss an entry according to the method described in this thread. Then some of us might be able to see where you question arises... (I regret that at the moment I don't know what you're talking about & I may not be the only one).

I don't see many people complaining about missing entries because of any reason you describe : we're buying support/demand, selling resistance/supply. When we place our Limit order, price either reaches it or it doesn't. Only xjames26 complained about possible platform/broker issues when not getting fills when price had actually traded through his Limit order.

I know it gets frustrating when you don't get clear answers to your questions : hopefully Divergence can answer them for you at the webinar later today. You'll make it easier for him if you post that chart in the meantime.
  • #648
  • Feb 26, 2017 4:25am Feb 26, 2017 4:25am
Quoting Ygr
I thought I explained why I asked because what is an entry on one chart looks like a doji on another so I was wondering if our collective brainpower could find another way to identify entries. Many people on this thread have complained of missing entries, because of that reason. understand?
YGR, not exactly the answer to your question, but i've made a post here; http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...80#post9599780 that you might take something positive from...
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  • #649
  • Feb 26, 2017 5:21am Feb 26, 2017 5:21am
Quoting Ygr
I thought I explained why I asked because what is an entry on one chart looks like a doji on another so I was wondering if our collective brainpower could find another way to identify entries. Many people on this thread have complained of missing entries, because of that reason. understand?
Could we just stick to Divergences's approach ( It is his thread). I believe you have a thread elsewhere where you can comment on your approach on the jigsaw forum?
OR at least post a chart detailing your problem ?
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #650
  • Feb 26, 2017 5:39am Feb 26, 2017 5:39am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Could we just stick to Divergences's approach ( It is his thread). I believe you have a thread elsewhere where you can comment on your approach on the jigsaw forum? OR at least post a chart detailing your problem ?
The first thing I noticed when I compared my charts to Divergences charts was that the bars were different but I expected that because I use Ninja Trader with a different data feed than he uses. I would think everyone's charts will have slightly different looking bars depending on when you start your data feed going and which data provider you are using. I think this is what he is talking about. But like you say, I don't think Jigsaw has anything to do with this thread and the way Divergence is trading his method. Can't wait until the webinar. It will be really interesting to say the least.
  • #651
  • Feb 26, 2017 5:57am Feb 26, 2017 5:57am
I've even seen H himself say that what was an entry on one chart (like erasthmus's) wasn't an entry on his. Also, look e.g. at this post http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...21#post9583221

You even said yourself that on Tradestation you can sync your charts. I'm just saying that the opens or closes of s/d bars or +-1 or 2 ticks are not inherent, and not uniform amongst data feeds.

So I'm just asking is there a way to pinpoint the best entry? I'm not saying it has to be Jigsaw or whatever. I was just offering those as possible solutions. I don't think Jigsaw is a method -- only a tool to find better entries, which is exactly what I am asking. But you can correct me if I am wrong. I am discussing H's method and wondering if these tools or any others are useful for optimizing H's method and finding an inherently better entry/exit s/d zone or if it is worth my time to learn.

So in fact I am discussing H's method and trying to find a way around this issue. I know that these tools are useful for those who know how to use them (which isn't me), and it's much faster to ask here instead of watching about 17 hours of videos Also, I thought that maybe because H uses volume bars then these tools are obsolete, so I was wondering if someone could enlighten me about that?

Anyway, if this bothers you then I'm sorry and I won't press the issue. I just think it's an extension and not something new.

(also, btw, my question about TF was imho also relevant. H traded CL, then moved to YM, then to NQ because NQ trended better. I was just wondering if anyone knew if TF trended better because then, logically, it might make sense to trade that?) Anyway, thanks for your contributions. You've been most helpful to me!

Thanks CG.
  • #652
  • Feb 26, 2017 6:13am Feb 26, 2017 6:13am
Quoting ForexForest
{quote} The first thing I noticed when I compared my charts to Divergences charts was that the bars were different but I expected that because I use Ninja Trader with a different data feed than he uses. I would think everyone's charts will have slightly different looking bars depending on when you start your data feed going and which data provider you are using. I think this is what he is talking about. But like you say, I don't think Jigsaw has anything to do with this thread and the way Divergence is trading his method. Can't wait until the webinar....
The setup Div uses prints candles at near optimum values for pullbacks, can't explain why it is 233 volume and his setup that does this but it is what it is.

NT8 and cqg does not print "as good" candle setups, NT7 seems better. So for this system if your printing crappy candles you will miss or get bad entries (if your using candles). As mentioned before i resorted to volume profile and messed around with the candle volume settings to give me visibility of pullbacks.

I think this is a fair point and worth discussing with this system as it does rely heavily on what the candles are saying.
  • #653
  • Feb 26, 2017 6:53am Feb 26, 2017 6:53am
Thanks Ozz. Could you PM or post how you use the profile or a link where to learn how to use it? I also just realized that my question would also address how to pinpoint when an entry should be 1 or 2 ticks higher as sometimes if you look on the videos \charts it misses by as tick or two, which is a pity.
  • #654
  • Feb 26, 2017 6:55am Feb 26, 2017 6:55am
Quoting Ozz
{quote} The setup Div uses prints candles at near optimum values for pullbacks, can't explain why it is 233 volume and his setup that does this but it is what it is. NT8 and cqg does not print "as good" candle setups, NT7 seems better. So for this system if your printing crappy candles you will miss or get bad entries (if your using candles). As mentioned before i resorted to volume profile and messed around with the candle volume settings to give me visibility of pullbacks. I think this is a fair point and worth discussing with this system as it...
I get what you're saying, Ozz, but don't entirely agree :

The Set-Up here is a 123;
the Trigger is a pullback to the area of the Close of the 3 point candle (note that I write "area" not "1 tick beyond" as I used to, as the exact point to the exact tick doesn't really matter);
Where a noticeably different chart makes a difference is if the Set-Up 123 doesn't form, ie. you have no trade... so what, move on to the next one. .. it will happen from time to time.
If there is a Set-Up 123, it's structure doesn't really matter, as it's the pullback to a price that we trade, not a bar shape (again the price at which the trade is placed can vary by a few ticks, either because of the size of the 3 bar on a particuar platform, or because that's what the trader chooses to do in real time).

Harold can tell me I've had it wrong all along in a few hours (it won't be the first time ).
  • #655
  • Feb 26, 2017 7:10am Feb 26, 2017 7:10am
Quoting jtrade
{quote} I get what you're saying, Ozz, but don't entirely agree : The Set-Up here is a 123; the Trigger is a pullback to the area of the Close of the 3 point candle (note that I write "area" not "1 tick beyond" as I used to, as the exact point to the exact tick doesn't really matter); Where a noticeably different chart makes a difference is if the Set-Up 123 doesn't form, ie. you have no trade... so what, move on to the next one. .. it will happen from time to time. If there is a Set-Up 123, it's structure doesn't really matter, as it's the pullback...
Yes the principle is 123 but i do not agree with entries using bars (unless your bars are printing properly). You can get consistantly bad entries and missed trades all because your 'bars' are printing badly. I did mess around with the volume settings and found a better more consistant number to work with ( still not quite as good as the sierra setup though.)

I think my point is that there is merit in having the correct visual entry point if using bars that print properly.
  • #656
  • Feb 26, 2017 7:26am Feb 26, 2017 7:26am
BTW I should add again that I'm only speaking to you JT like a student to his master
  • #657
  • Feb 26, 2017 7:34am Feb 26, 2017 7:34am
Quoting Ozz
{quote} The setup Div uses prints candles at near optimum values for pullbacks, can't explain why it is 233 volume and his setup that does this but it is what it is. NT8 and cqg does not print "as good" candle setups, NT7 seems better. So for this system if your printing crappy candles you will miss or get bad entries (if your using candles). As mentioned before i resorted to volume profile and messed around with the candle volume settings to give me visibility of pullbacks. I think this is a fair point and worth discussing with this system as it...
Yes, the setup Div uses does print candles near the optimum area to take a pullback. And I do use NT7. The areas will just look a little different because of when the candles start and finish according to what I said above. I am not getting any "crappy" candles. Sounds like I should keep to trading with NT7. I read about all the problems with NT8 on the NT forum. Not going to start trading with it until I see most of the problems have been dealt with.
  • #658
  • Feb 26, 2017 10:50am Feb 26, 2017 10:50am
I personally think you are trying too hard to find perfection. Don't forget the big boy's will alter their buying algo's regularly to mix things up a tad. Sometimes the entry will be to the very pip, other times it will need a '+1' to fill and other times, it will overshoot by a tick or 2... or 3...


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: tick entries.png Size: 42 KB


The LHS needed a +1, the RHS didn't. Make your choice and run with it. Maybe your slightly different data feeds, will keep you in a trade when stop is at BE+1, instead of where Harold's will see him stopped out, it's swings and roundabouts. The FAR more important issue in my eyes, is taking a set-up where we will expect that the initial order which caused the price movement has not filled completely yet, thus we need a nice thrust away from a S/D zone to indicate a large enough order was placed, but not so large that price will not return quickly... ie , concentrate on when to take the pullback, not too short, but not too long, (in both time and distance)...
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  • #659
  • Feb 26, 2017 11:16am Feb 26, 2017 11:16am
Before someone points out the obvious difference in the charts, i will post the correct labelling with different coloured 123's to make it more obvious!

The size and timescales are slightly different and that is all!

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: tick entries2.png Size: 39 KB
GoFundMe -stage-4-glioma-brain-cancer-fighter (link in my profile)
  • #660
  • Feb 26, 2017 11:59am Feb 26, 2017 11:59am
Anyone else having trouble entering the webinar : I'm fairly sure I've entered the login info correctly... unless 100 people are already in... or I have my timing all wrong ?

Could someone please just confirm they're in and it's happening now & I'll catch up on a recording, if it's made.

Edit : I have date & time correct, using Chrome browser & I pre-registered.

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