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Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #921
  • Feb 23, 2017 9:23am Feb 23, 2017 9:23am
Quoting dukas_trader
the most important point why an individual person is losing: his trading strategy, to less experience, overconfidence, wrong brokers, using money managements or signal services, using martingale, trading without an sl, dont backtest the proper way manuell, dont backtest the proper way with a program, dont calculate moneymanagement correct,.... normally fear or emotions dont be so very important, but when done this upper points ( and i think i even missed many) not correct, then this fear or emotions get you down often. if you do all the points correct...
"normally fear or emotions dont be so very important, but when done this upper points ( and i think i even missed many) not correct, then this fear or emotions get you down often. if you do all the points correct you play it as math game, because all you see is on the plan you designed."

Great Point man.
  • #922
  • Feb 23, 2017 10:17am Feb 23, 2017 10:17am
I also trade by trading plan and never let my emotions override as it would mean I'm doomed to lose. Some trades really look high probability but you don't need to make many mistakes only one is enough to shake your trading or wipe out your account. Traders underestimate the risks greatly that is reason why 95% traders lose.
  • #923
  • Feb 23, 2017 10:27am Feb 23, 2017 10:27am
Quoting leebsurag
I also trade by trading plan and never let my emotions override as it would mean I'm doomed to lose. Some trades really look high probability but you don't need to make many mistakes only one is enough to shake your trading or wipe out your account. Traders underestimate the risks greatly that is reason why 95% traders lose.
hmm, but most lose because some have to lose. so for 95% this cant be the reason, because even when they change this all, there need to be losers. 5 % losers cant compensate brokers and winners.
  • #924
  • Feb 24, 2017 2:27pm Feb 24, 2017 2:27pm
fear is everything. i had a wonderful chance today. on the cable. missed 5% account increase, due to fear issues. was too slow at entry, after daily breakout. took me too many hours to think what was the right thing to do...

still, 2% over the water for feb so far. next week i will fight fear again. when i become fearless, i will become a good trader, eventually...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #925
  • Feb 24, 2017 3:37pm Feb 24, 2017 3:37pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
fear is everything. i had a wonderful chance today. on the cable. missed 5% account increase, due to fear issues. was too slow at entry, after daily breakout. took me too many hours to think what was the right thing to do... still, 2% over the water for feb so far. next week i will fight fear again. when i become fearless, i will become a good trader, eventually...
but you have fear because of what?
that a trade get minus, thats normal in trading the signals.
that your account can go very deep after the trade? this cant happen with proper moneymanagement.
that you are wrong? this cant happen when rules are fixed.
.....

so you only need to find out, what is wrong with the system, then fear is away. its so simple.
most of the time people use to much money per trade, that they are out of there comfort area, and so cant like to lose this money for winning more on long hand. maybe this reason?

normally there cant be any fear or emotions, allways there is a resason behind and something wrong with the system connected to you. you need to put in a system you dont fear. sounds easy, it really is easy. but it needs to understand deep inside one time.
  • #926
  • Feb 24, 2017 4:02pm Feb 24, 2017 4:02pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} but you have fear because of what?
there are moments when timing is everything. it was that kind of moment today. i had the perfect timing on my side. the fear pops out of the fact i usually do not get the timing right and therefore i am forced to apply some strict money management.

to be honest, i always catch the timing right, but with the wrong lotsize... at the right moment my lotsize is very low. the dd is low. the profits are low. i am sad. although some months i make over 10%, i am not happy. this is pure BS profit.

the capital i need to be happy with 10% monthly needs to be over 10 mil. at the moment i have like 250 times less that capital, therefore some lousy 10% per month does satisfy nothing in me. i can trade with 50 times less than 10 mil, and soon i will, but these shitty 10% per month in return is still nothing but a pure crap to me.

it is going to take forever to make 10 mil, to afford myself being happy with the lousy 10% each month. and 10 mil is nothing, btw. nothing special. this is SMALL MONEY... 10 mil is small money. first i have to make it to 10 mil. and that will be the hardest part of everything.

for that fear i am talking about. fear of braking the system's rules AT THE RIGHT TIME. otherwise, it is going to take forever. and life is damn short...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #927
  • Feb 24, 2017 4:41pm Feb 24, 2017 4:41pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} there are moments when timing is everything. it was that kind of moment today. i had the perfect timing on my side. the fear pops out of the fact i usually do not get the timing right and therefore i am forced to apply some strict money management. to be honest, i always catch the timing right, but with the wrong lotsize... at the right moment my lotsize is very low. the dd is low. the profits are low. i am sad. although some months i make over 10%, i am not happy. this is pure BS profit. the capital i need to be happy with 10% monthly needs...
but you will be only happy when you will have 1 mio each month profits? (10 % of 10 mio).
this i call big fix costs :-).

if you want to speed up its difficult, trading small amount is much more easy then bigger amount. you have much bigger spreads, much bigger slippage, often not all volume in the market you would like to have, and have sometimes problems going out of a trade in fast moves for a good price. on the other site you have bether commission, but depends on trading systems. by average with short term trading you get near best commission allready with 500k-1 mio account.

speeding up and breaking the rules can get you faster to your goal, but in long term can be more negative then positive. because you have this rules because of some reasons that are good, then breaking is risky, or the rules need to be improved.

with your 40000, you have at the moment, you need only 5 years to get this 10 million by your 10 % each month profits. thats not so long, so dont take more risk then neccesary.
  • #928
  • Feb 24, 2017 10:44pm Feb 24, 2017 10:44pm
the thing is, i can make my 10 mil for just 4 months. if there are four months in a row on the cable, like jan17? i will be there. however, that will be quite an expensive try, if the first or any of these four months happen to be like feb17. i just cannot afford to lose my base capital so many times...

i have already done such thing in my life. i have lived for two years in an abandoned hotel. having only €0.50 eur per day to eat. worked three times, two years each time, for no salary/money, because of love for the job and hope i can eventually make it. raised with my partner 7.5k into a 8-digit business asset (right now). this thing took me 12-13 years in a row. it was a fucking hard journey for me. i was at the edge of braking myself throughout most of that time. i would not like to go over such thing again...

i will find a way to my 10 mil. i hope this way excludes years of waiting. if i do not make it the way i want it, this will cost me no more than 100k. if the fast road is closed for me, i will then take the slow one. but will first check if the fast one is available.

i got the timing, but with the wrong fucking lot. i just have to learn how to use the right lot at the right time. that is my one and only challenge...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #929
  • Feb 25, 2017 7:53am Feb 25, 2017 7:53am
Quoting MoneyZilla
the thing is, i can make my 10 mil for just 4 months. if there are four months in a row on the cable, like jan17? i will be there. however, that will be quite an expensive try, if the first or any of these four months happen to be like feb17. i just cannot afford to lose my base capital so many times... i have already done such thing in my life. i have lived for two years in an abandoned hotel. having only 0.50 eur per day to eat. worked three times, two years each time, for no salary/money, because of love for the job and hope i can eventually...
you sound like you use extreme martingale systems, if you can have 10 mio in 4 month from small capital and can lose all in wrong days or do you trade with all margin in one trade with higher SL?

then offcourse you cant get rich in a proper way. you are more like a lottery gamer. i have never seen one martingale trader with more win then a normal trader, its normal, because by math its always not so good. but i have seen many many big people lose very big with martingale.
if you do really martingale style, try to do some math before and you will see, this style is very stupid and has not one advantage only more risks. if you need to buy new all the time because the first entry was wrong and cant win with small SL, then do the entry on different points later, when the original trade would be in minus allready. it needs only to be calculated.

there is a reason why many people with managed accounts using martingale, the wins can be very high, the complete account losses one the end are for sure. so getting wins and performance fee for sure and dont have the loses (because clients only loss) is extrem best way to steal there money and get there accounts down. many beginners cant see this fact and look only on the wins, not why the wins are there and how are they generated. they dont see the all or nothing game play, because the "nothing" always happens on the end, then all is over allready.
  • #930
  • Feb 25, 2017 2:12pm Feb 25, 2017 2:12pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} you sound like you use extreme martingale systems, if you can have 10 mio in 4 month from small capital and can lose all in wrong days or do you trade with all margin in one trade with higher SL?
I use mild multipliers. from x1.05 to x1.50. My usual is x1.25. If i get active, by trading a narrow setups together with my usual wide ones, which deliver their profits after 3-4 weeks of gathering pips on the chart, then i can even go without a dd. i did this during the last two days of the last week.

i should have had over -6.5% of dd on the cable. from 8 feb there is no movement, really. but during the last two days i got up to 0.04 lots on the lot size sequence and this allowed me to run a parallel narrrow setups. instead of -6.5% i am at +1.7% at the moment. still the rate is going nowhere.

i run a new ea every next 5 direction flips. if mar17 is as half as good as jan17, i will finish it with 20-30% profit only from the currently running wide setups. one wide setup is capable of making around 20% per month (jan17 movements) with below 7% of dd. in jan17 the dd was just -1.5%, but we see it can go over -6% in feb17 movements... so, you can imagine, if the market is not stucked as it is right now on the cable, the dd will be only at the very begging. and the account can grow, without experiencing dd... almost.

i am so angry now, i will not wait for ages the rate to move and will run the narrow setups all the time, in case mar17 happens to be similar to feb17. a narrow setup brings in 10% to 30% per week... but the dd can easily be equal to the profit (-10% to -30%)...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #931
  • Feb 25, 2017 2:36pm Feb 25, 2017 2:36pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} I use mild multipliers. from x1.05 to x1.50. My usual is x1.25. If i get active, by trading a narrow setups together with my usual wide ones, which deliver their profits after 3-4 weeks of gathering pips on the chart, then i can even go without a dd. i did this during the last two days of the last week. i should have had over -6.5% of dd on the cable. from 8 feb there is no movement, really. but during the last two days i got up to 0.04 lots on the lot size sequence and this allowed me to run a parallel narrrow setups. instead of -6.5% i...
i am not a fan of this martingale, there are so much bether strategies without the whole account risking. i dont know if this is worth, but anyone earns different.
  • #932
  • Feb 25, 2017 3:18pm Feb 25, 2017 3:18pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} i am not a fan of this martingale, there are so much bether strategies without the whole account risking. i dont know if this is worth, but anyone earns different.
that is very strange. i have never, ever heard of any good public trading strategy, so far... if there was just one, the net retail losers would not be over 99.99%... but maybe you know something we do not know?

i agree there might be private strategies, not using any multipliers and will respect anyone not willing to share them...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #933
  • Edited 5:11pm Feb 25, 2017 3:54pm | Edited 5:11pm
FWIW, some thoughts on using multipliers…..

-- If you can get the biggest multipliers down on your winning trades, your winners are magnified.
-- But if the biggest multipliers coincide with your losses, you lose more.

So how do you know (in advance) whether a trade is a high probability winner (or loser)? Skilled analysis.
Hence you must already have an 'edge' from your analysis, to make multipliers work for you.
-- Risking more because probabilities have meanwhile improved** is smart.
-- Risking more merely to recover recent losses (recency bias) has no mathematical basis, and eventually you'll suffer accordingly.

[** Possible examples:
(1) the longer price consolidates within a tight range, the greater the probability of an explosive breakout;
(2) the further price moves away from a mean (even better: it's moving against plausible fundamental reasons), the greater the probability that there will be a correction back toward the mean.]

Risk management: Suppose you risk 2% per trade. Then if you want to use multipliers, you might have a spread of 1x to 3x, i.e. risk between 1% and 3%, which keeps average risk at 2%. Again, you need the 3% trades to be the biggest winners, and/or the 1% risk to coincide with the losses, in order to get some added benefit from using the multipliers. Otherwise you might as well simply risk 2% on every trade.

Extrapolating, you risk 2% on the A+ setups, and 0% (don't trade) on anything less. That's the biggest spread ratio possible (2 divided by 0 is infinity), and capping risk at 2% per trade ensures that it will take a huge run of losses to blow your account.
  • #934
  • Edited 4:37pm Feb 25, 2017 4:04pm | Edited 4:37pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} that is very strange. i have never, ever heard of any good public trading strategy, so far... if there was just one, the net retail losers would not be over 99.99%... but maybe you know something we do not know? i agree there might be private strategies, not using any multipliers and will respect anyone not willing to share them...
i dont know, i only trade privat and i only know people doing so. i dont know anyone speaking about his entries directly, because in the entry time you buy near the whole volume the market has at this moment most of the time. so having many people taking same trades same time is complete useless, because this changes the system and the entries. and noone will update his trading systems all the time, or need to create new systems only because has spoken to other people about this points. this will not happen.

thats the problem with public trading, many dont think about in the first years and you need to learn often the hard way. you create a strategy because of the past chart prices/ patterns and behavior often. but because you are not in this behavior, after you doing trading in this time you change this "patterns", you change it more when you trade more volume (or by public strategy many many trade same time and so big volume will come in). many will think, the forex market is so big, this is not important what i do. if you are very small its true, but later....., and the forex market is not this extrem big. if you break down the possible volume you can trade to a good spread at a special time, its much smaller then you think, when you have the daily complete traded volume in mind.

i know, at start you dont have to think about, but after some years you get to the points when you trade 1-10 billion per month turnover and you need to take a look, how you put this numbers in the market for a spread and slippage you will accept.
  • #935
  • Feb 25, 2017 4:50pm Feb 25, 2017 4:50pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
the thing is, i can make my 10 mil for just 4 months. if there are four months in a row on the cable, like jan17? i will be there. however, that will be quite an expensive try, if the first or any of these four months happen to be like feb17. i just cannot afford to lose my base capital so many times... i have already done such thing in my life. i have lived for two years in an abandoned hotel. having only 0.50 eur per day to eat. worked three times, two years each time, for no salary/money, because of love for the job and hope i can eventually...
I like your hunger to succeed. I always believe that money will always find the ones that are really good at something. Don't chase money, make money chase you.
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
  • #936
  • Feb 25, 2017 6:58pm Feb 25, 2017 6:58pm
I think that traders fails for various reasons.

First, it is absolutely true that 99.9% of fx retail traders fail in the long run.
The reasons are :

1- no money
99.99% of traders don't have any capital to invest, a few hundred dollars or a few thousand are not enough for trading.

2- no education
99.99% of traders don't know what the market is, how it move, why it move, they simply enjoy the adrenaline that comes from clicking "buy" and "sell".
After some loss, they decide to "learn how to trade" by searching for a trading system with cute indicators and arrows.

3- 99.99% of trading systems are created by 99.99% losing traders.


Futures and stock retail traders have enough capital for trading, but they too lack in education.

Professional traders too have a lot of capital, and they still lack education and lose in the long term. However they trade clients money, and new clients always come so.. To them doesn't matter if they win or lose, as long as new clients (money) come, they keep earning commissions.
  • #937
  • Feb 26, 2017 3:44am Feb 26, 2017 3:44am
Quoting tunera
I think that traders fails for various reasons. First, it is absolutely true that 99.9% of fx retail traders fail in the long run. The reasons are : 1- no money 99.99% of traders don't have any capital to invest, a few hundred dollars or a few thousand are not enough for trading. 2- no education 99.99% of traders don't know what the market is, how it move, why it move, they simply enjoy the adrenaline that comes from clicking "buy" and "sell". After some loss, they decide to "learn how to trade" by searching for a trading system with cute indicators...
Trading is a very tough nut to cracked, you have to handle the technical and psychological aspect at its best all the time, one wrong move can ruined everything, that is why consistent success in trading is hard to achieved. A good trader dont need huge capital.
  • #938
  • Feb 26, 2017 5:27am Feb 26, 2017 5:27am
Quoting tunera
I think that traders fails for various reasons. First, it is absolutely true that 99.9% of fx retail traders fail in the long run. The reasons are : 1- no money 99.99% of traders don't have any capital to invest, a few hundred dollars or a few thousand are not enough for trading. 2- no education 99.99% of traders don't know what the market is, how it move, why it move, they simply enjoy the adrenaline that comes from clicking "buy" and "sell". After some loss, they decide to "learn how to trade" by searching for a trading system with cute indicators...
Please tell me,where in the hell you arranged those statistics.
Work smarter,not harder
  • #939
  • Feb 26, 2017 6:17am Feb 26, 2017 6:17am
Quoting marcof91
{quote} Please tell me,where in the hell you arranged those statistics.
 
He sucks them off his fingers.

People, don't listen to failed traders. They are always 99% everything bad.....
 
It's about 90% failed,  10% doing ok. These numbers include all kind of.... err.....slow learners .... so it's not that bad.
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #940
  • Feb 26, 2017 7:54am Feb 26, 2017 7:54am
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
LOL....its getting better and better. At first it was 85%, then 90%, then 95% and now latest stats are 99.9%.
Well that's really comforting....

if things are really that bad why these guys are here on forex (trading) related sites???
billion $ question
I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
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