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Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #881
  • Feb 21, 2017 11:31am Feb 21, 2017 11:31am
Quoting Shabs19
Traders lose because they have no edge to start with, discipline & money management with no edge is always going to be a disaster.
True!
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #882
  • Edited 11:46am Feb 21, 2017 11:34am | Edited 11:46am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} where i am writing about having losses higher then wins? when you trade you need many losses, offcourse you need much more wins or you will lose on the end. but do we speak about losing strategies? maybe you did not read correctly, i spoke about having many losses, not about losing strategy.
there is one important thing, you need losses, you need many, you need them often, you need them in many times. (post#874)

If you are at this stage then you have no edge at all and still haven't found your winning strategy. It will be very difficult to follow with discipline a strategy that
incurs many losses as you proclaim.
Learning from losses is very difficult for traders ( & gamblers), as they tend not to focus on their losses and so do not learn any real lessons from them.
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It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #883
  • Feb 21, 2017 11:44am Feb 21, 2017 11:44am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} this is statistical edge by 100%. if you trade it at special points/times/prize areas/ currencies/ because of some laws/ marketbevahior of the big players/ ...... , then you have fundamental edges too. but i cant say to much about it,because i dont know any more then you try to catch a pullback or a sideway trend from this 2 indicator informations. as easy basic rule: when you can say, that sometimes there its bether this value or this value as input or parameter, its most of the time an statistic edge. when you can have only...
This post is makes no sense at all. Do you know where indicators are derived from ? Total waffle.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #884
  • Edited 12:35pm Feb 21, 2017 12:21pm | Edited 12:35pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} This post is makes no sense at all. Do you know where indicators are derived from ? Total waffle.
please ask direct question. when you dont have basic knowledge, i dont know where i need to start to teach you. tell me at least what do you know allready, maybe this is to much information for you at this time point.

most indicators are nothing more then the prices calculated in different way. its difficult to answer you, if i dont know at what beginner level you are. but i cant start the very basic here in the thread.
  • #885
  • Feb 21, 2017 12:53pm Feb 21, 2017 12:53pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} please ask direct question. when you dont have basic knowledge, i dont know where i need to start to teach you. tell me at least what do you know allready, maybe this is to much information for you at this time point. most indicators are nothing more then the prices calculated in different way. its difficult to answer you, if i dont know at what beginner level you are. but i cant start the very basic here in the thread.
Maybe you are using google transalate to make your points, but still you are talking utter nonsense.
Blind leading the blind comes to mind..............
I have given you your statements in bold, and you are now backtracking & trying to divert the discussion.
What exactly do you not understand ?
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #886
  • Feb 21, 2017 12:56pm Feb 21, 2017 12:56pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} there is one important thing, you need losses, you need many, you need them often, you need them in many times. (post#874) If you are at this stage then you have no edge at all and still haven't found your winning strategy. It will be very difficult to follow with discipline a strategy that incurs many losses as you proclaim. Learning from losses is very difficult for traders ( & gamblers), as they tend not to focus on their losses and so do not learn any real lessons from them. {image}
ok, lets be honest to you. you write like you are just a beginner in trading, but your profil looks like you are a advanced beginner. so maybe you did not read exactly what i did wrote or you cant really understand it.

i will try to tell you once again, and please at least try to understand it, because this an important point, you as advanced beginner should allready have learned normally.
i speak about losses!!! losses!! not a loss strategy. you need losses to calculate proper moneymanagerment. i dont know if you really cant see the difference because you are to new in trading???

there need to be many losses in a winning strategy to calculate drawdwon, moneymanagement, strategy box setups, diversification factors,....

so all you say is wrong, and dont come on with its not true. this is one thing to tell other your point, but dont tell them this stupid wrong informations.
  • #887
  • Edited 1:11pm Feb 21, 2017 12:58pm | Edited 1:11pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Maybe you are using google transalate to make your points, but still you are talking utter nonsense. Blind leading the blind comes to mind.............. I have given you your statements in bold, and you are now backtracking & trying to divert the discussion. What exactly do you not understand ?

ah, you dont know fundamental edges, because you only trade statistical edges?? thats no problem, noone needs all. or maybe you even doint know there are other because you simple trade and live with it, or you dont split it because you simple sum it up and exactly moneymanagemnt is not so important for you.when you are ok with this, do so. but dont come with a sentence like you did, that did you look just like a beginner. if you could tell me before that you dont split it (i mentioned allready that i did see some that dont do so) all is fine. there is no problem in doing so, and no problem to say so, but i cant understand whats your question?

but that you calling yourself a professional trader, i dont understand this. what makes you professionell when you trade like many beginners and talk about this in same kind? its not against you, but i really cant get this point, i need do defend something, that its basic knowledge for traders since years. sometimes its really not easy to help someone in a forum, often there will come someone and tells " wrong, waffle, nonsense, blind following blind, and dont tell whats wrong, what he cant check or cant math ....... sometimes frustrating. you can ask me any question you have, and i will answer, but dont say anything like this is waffle, this is blind,.... without saying any reason. i cant discuss with you, when you dont have any argument, only saying,nonono, its not.
  • #888
  • Feb 21, 2017 1:05pm Feb 21, 2017 1:05pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote}
there need to be many losses in a winning strategy to calculate drawdwon, moneymanagement, strategy box setups, diversification factors,.....
Carry on with your your losses, you have a long, long way to go.
Trading is about knowing all this information beforehand, not learning about it as you go, unless you are also changing your strategy, as you go along.
Then of course, you don't have a consistent strategy in the first place.
I won't resort to name calling, it is the lowest form of debating................
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #889
  • Edited 1:29pm Feb 21, 2017 1:18pm | Edited 1:29pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Carry on with your your losses, you have a long, long way to go. Trading is about knowing all this information beforehand, not learning about it as you go, unless you are also changing your strategy, as you go along. Then of course, you don;t have a consistent strategy in the first place. I won't resort to name calling, it is the lowest form of debating................
what losses, you are the only one who think i have losses (i told you allready3 times, noone without you have problems to understand it). are you really this stupid beginner, who fakes he is a professional? you look so bad now, that your are the only one cant see the difference between having losing trades, and losing in a strategy in the end? do you have never heard that a strategy have winning and losing trades? and i spoke only about this losing trades part, to have no fear to have losses, because you need the losses for proper moneymanagement calculation.

its really bad that you fake experience and cheat other people here. its to easy to see that you dont know even the basics from trading and only put in here some words, here some words. i have met many people from your kind, and there will be many follow. i cant understand how someone likes to live so. you dont do anything positive for the people here in your last posts (maybe in other posts you are different), without bringing wrong informations. not realy very nice from you, really.

you write "to earn you must learn" in your post end, but you dont want learn anything, even not the basics. thats the truth. but dont try at least share your worng informations with others, thats the point that bad. its like martingale trading, do it , but dont do it for others.
  • #890
  • Feb 21, 2017 1:21pm Feb 21, 2017 1:21pm
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
Pearls of wisdom in some previous posts ......
Well i will just share my thoughts.... think about trading just like any other business....(i am sure you have read this many times before, so whats new?
Well why don't you apply it then?)
In other businesses we know that it takes time to have a successful running business, same for trading... it takes time. But in trading since we have read it or heard it from our friends or other people that you can make lots of money through this just by clicking buy/sell and you don't need to know anything about this business, just give me your money or invest with this broker and start making thousands of dollars.
Can you imagine ....making thousands of $ and you don't need to know anything, no knowledge of trading and no hard work...not even mental hard work. But people still fall for these things because of greed and laziness....this combo is so deadly that even people who are mature enough , having professional jobs make the same stupid mistakes.
Get this out of your mind that trading (making money consistently) is very easy....its not. Yes you can make this process easy by going through learning process....
- learning about this business (basic and advance stuff)
- learn about your own mindset (relevant with this business)
- learning money management skills (required for any type of business)

Just take simple approach ...learn the basics then move to advance steps. There are many profitable retail traders (even here on FF), if they can make money why not you?
Stick to your method (if it has given you good results during your testing phase)...stick to simple things that make sense to you...don't try to make sense out of market moves because you will never be able to .
Another thing which is really important (at least to me)....
1- your a trader
2- your an analyst

Decide what you want to become because they are not the same people. Trading is about execution, analyst just observe the market and predict next move (based on his/her knowledge about the market).
For a trader, analysis is just to find the next best edge and trade it...that's it (no right or wrong game). Analyst doesn't predict the market moves so he/she can trade. That is why they are hired by banks , brokers and other financial institutes...to analyze not to trade.

What many traders are focused on is to be right all the time...that's why we see new threads with 90%-95% or even 100% win rate.
A trader's job is not to be right all the time...its about making money consistently. For that even a win rate of 50% is enough (depending on your RRR)

Mark Douglas in one of his interviews said....that on average 95% of Richard Denis (Prince of the pit...) trades were losers. 95% losers ....but he still made money because the 5% winners were monsters.
Now you may say that's complete B.S, well that's what Mark said and i believe him (you can have your own opinion, no hard feelings) but the point is don't get involved in this crap that you have to be right all the time to make money.
Just like in any business you have some cost to bear...same in this business.
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I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
  • #891
  • Feb 21, 2017 1:29pm Feb 21, 2017 1:29pm
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
just a friendly advice for all traders and name sake traders
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I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
  • #892
  • Feb 21, 2017 1:33pm Feb 21, 2017 1:33pm
Quoting hak444
just a friendly advice for all traders and name sake traders {image}
believe me, you will not be in a more friendly live, negative people have the trend to fill their wrong informations in other peoples mind, and get more negative people. and getting more of this kind cant be a more happe place.

if something is 100% wrong, its bether to correct it, fast and immediatly.
  • #893
  • Feb 21, 2017 1:37pm Feb 21, 2017 1:37pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} what losses, you are the only one who think i have losses (i told you allready3 times, noone without you have problems to understand it). are you really this stupid beginner, who fakes he is a professional? you look so bad now, that your are the only one cant see the difference between having losing trades, and losing in a strategy in the end? do you have never heard that a strategy have winning and losing trades? and i spoke only about this losing trades part, to have no fear to have losses, because you need the losses for proper moneymanagement...
With emotional rants like above, you have lost the plot. You contradict yourself continuously, cannot make your point clearly, resort to name calling when
you have no answers to valid questions put to you. I am simply highlighting all your contradictions. That is why I asked if you were using google transalate.
I don't see why your comments should not be scrutinised.
Discipline is about controlling your emotions, you clearly have problems here.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #894
  • Feb 21, 2017 1:42pm Feb 21, 2017 1:42pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} With emotional rants like above, you have lost the plot. You contradict yourself continuously, cannot make your point clearly, resort to name calling when you have no answers to valid questions put to you. I am simply highlighting all your contradictions. That is why I asked if you were using google transalate. I don't see why your comments should not be scrutinised. Discipline is about controlling your emotions, you clearly have problems here.
you try to hide now that you was wrong, try to steal away.

you look like a beginner because you are a beginner, you dont like that someone know it, maybe, but then at least try not to sound like one.

i dont attack you, i attack your bad nagative style. all you did say is wrong, i did show you allready, you cant say anything against it, and now you try to hide behind your bad personality? wow.

simple say, sorry i did not read correctly, sorry i did not know that you spoke about losing trades in a winning strategy ,.... what ever, but your kind of writing is really bad. on the end you will say your wrong sentences are the truth.

by the way: i told you 3 times: tell me your questions directly! you highlited what i wrote, and how sthis will help me? i know what i wrote, but whats wrong with what i wrote??? thats the point, you cant highlite some correct points and say nothing, what shall i teach you about this??? without direct questions its difficult to tell you something. i havent seen any valid question, only some attacking because of nothing.

i even tried to help you because you looked very unexperienced, and even then you still attacked even more. that was really disappointing.
  • #895
  • Feb 21, 2017 1:59pm Feb 21, 2017 1:59pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} you try to hide now that you was wrong, try to steal away. you look like a beginner because you are a beginner, you dont like that someone know it, maybe, but then at least try not to sound like one. i dont attack you, i attack your bad nagative style. all you did say is wrong, i did show you allready, you cant say anything against it, and now you try to hide behind you bad personality? wow.
Again a total ranter........... What are you talking about, you have not made one single positive statement in your all your posts, in which someone could
actually learn something. You are resorting to verbal slanging matches which shows clearlly your status.
Empty vessels make the most sound...........

Professional traders are well prepared, know their strategy inside-out, they do not need to seek attention to themselves, they have an edge which not only
is a consistent winning strategy but also has money management & psychology of the markets at it's core. Knowledge that is accumulated over many hours
of screentime. Your trading edge is personal to you because you have developed it.

Up your game, talk with respect.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #896
  • Edited 2:26pm Feb 21, 2017 2:09pm | Edited 2:26pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Again a total ranter........... What are you talking about, you have not made one single positive statement in your all your posts, in which someone could actually learn something. You are resorting to verbal slanging matches which shows clearlly your status. Empty vessels make the most sound........... Professional traders are well prepared, know their strategy inside-out, they do not need to seek attention to themselves, they have an edge which not only is a consistent winning strategy but also has money management & psychology of the...

but all you talk about is simple. and sorry, i cant see you have it. you can read a book 1 hour and know all you talk about. thats all do you know, thats the problem and its easy to see for me, because i met many of this kind.

i spoke about one part of the game, accepting losing trades, then you come on and could not realize it and did attack and attack, i dont why, i dont know why you dont know this basics, what ever. but you did what you did.

you really cant see what i was talking about before,or? its complete out of your mind. can someone please answer me (and not Shabs please!): was my original post so bad written, was it so bad to understand that i spoke about losing trades (against what shabs did understood , that i trade a complete losing strategy, where ever he read this ).

and by the way: trading edge is not personal: thats simple training and experience (and this is only a small part of the trading edges)! offcourse you can call all edge, edge in bether keyboard, edge in bether mouse, edge in bether programming code, then your edge list will get 2 million facts. i thought we speak about the generell edges.

and respect needs do deserve, from your starting posts you looked like someone who dont deserve it, so at least try to read your posts again and think about it!
  • #897
  • Edited 3:02pm Feb 21, 2017 2:51pm | Edited 3:02pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} but all you talk about is simple. and sorry, i cant see you have it. you can read a book 1 hour and know all you talk about. thats all do you know, thats the problem and its easy to see for me, because i met many of this kind. i spoke about one part of the game, accepting losing trades, then you come on and could not realize it and did attack and attack, i dont why, i dont know why you dont know this basics, what ever. but you did what you did. you really cant see what i was talking about before,or? its complete out of your mind. can someone...
Learn to read your own posts before you post them. I have highlighted your statements clearly for you to comment. If the english language is a problem for
you, then I apologise. When you read your statements again you will see the issues I have raised. Maybe slow down when you are typing & read it back first
before posting. You maybe making a valid point but lost in your writing style,
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #898
  • Feb 21, 2017 3:19pm Feb 21, 2017 3:19pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Learn to read your own posts before you post them. I have highlighted your statements clearly for you to comment. If the english language is a problem for you, then I apologise. When you read your statements again you will see the issues I have raised. Maybe slow down when you are typing & read it back first before posting. You maybe making a valid point but lost in your writing style,
this is not against you and maybe my english is not the best for all. but can you tell me whats the problem with highlited?

indicators are calculated on price most of the time. but that has nothing to do with fundamental edges. maybe you have an different definition for a fundamental edge. i have written about it some post before this.

maybe we should delete our useless posts and you tell me exactly whats your point or wrong in your eyes. its looks for me you define fundamental edge different?
  • #899
  • Feb 21, 2017 7:35pm Feb 21, 2017 7:35pm
Quoting TooSlow
{quote} True!
So Avery...you still selling that "NEVER LOSE" BULLSHIT.....
Plan, Prepare, Execute, Repeat
  • #900
  • Feb 21, 2017 9:11pm Feb 21, 2017 9:11pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Learn to read your own posts before you post them. I have highlighted your statements clearly for you to comment. If the english language is a problem for you, then I apologise. When you read your statements again you will see the issues I have raised. Maybe slow down when you are typing & read it back first before posting. You maybe making a valid point but lost in your writing style,
Shabs19,

It pains me to showcase your wrongs, it is as clear as day light you are exactly guilty of the things you are pointing others. This is my reasoning for my stand...

1. You yourself say on your profile that you are an "Aspiring Professional Trader"and you have some way to go before the word "Aspiring" is eliminated. It is suffice to say, you are not in any position at this point of time to make blanket statements about how other traders should conduct their business let alone make bold statements about trading in general.

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2.
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You validate my point 1. I for one, have gotten much value from reading Dukas Trader.


3. What i took from Dukas Trader point about Losses: One should embrace losses, and not be afraid of them. In fact, losses can be used to judge the viability of a strategy.

It still boggles my mind how you have misinterpreted this point, and took the thread from a benign discussion to a hostile one.

4.
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There is something more nastier than name calling, making assumptions about people for attacking them....


Thanks
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