Most traders fail because of no discipline! | Page 43 | Forex Factory

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Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #841
  • Feb 12, 2017 3:52pm Feb 12, 2017 3:52pm
Here is an interesting article called "What Can Separate Successful Traders from the Rest?"
https://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundam...rs-series.html
The author and his team examined 30 million trades and came up with some very interesting facts.
  • #842
  • Feb 12, 2017 5:17pm Feb 12, 2017 5:17pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Here is an interesting article called "What Can Separate Successful Traders from the Rest?" https://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundam...rs-series.html The author and his team examined 30 million trades and came up with some very interesting facts.
Poor money management can be related to having an strategy with bad RR ratio, most traders adapt an strategy that prefers small wins as against to huge loses, if traders can find/develop an strategy that can maintains good RR ratio in most of his winning trades then he can be a profitable trader in the long run.
  • #843
  • Feb 12, 2017 5:32pm Feb 12, 2017 5:32pm
Quoting techboy46
{quote} Poor money management can be related to having an strategy with bad RR ratio
Not necessarily.

Poor money management is, in essence, allocating an unreasonable percentage of your trading account to a trade or a series of trades.

For example risking 25% of your money or more on a single trade is bad, VERY BAD money management. In fact it's not even trading anymore, it's gambling.

The amateurs think about all the money they are going to make on this or that trade, the pros think about protecting their capital on each trade.
  • #844
  • Feb 12, 2017 5:41pm Feb 12, 2017 5:41pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
{quote} Not necessarily. Poor money management is, in essence, allocating an unreasonable percentage of your trading account to a trade or a series of trades. For example risking 25% of your money or more on a single trade is bad, VERY BAD money management. In fact it's not even trading anymore, it's gambling. The amateurs think about all the money they are going to make on this or that trade, the pros think about protecting their capital on each trade.
Agree, but I think this case mostly happen only to beginners in this business but in general most traders uses a strategy that risk more as against to small winners, this is attested if we go to popular copy trade sites such as MQL5 and Zulu. Most trades tends to hold on in a losing trades than let a winning trades run longer to get more profits, perhaps the psychological aspect comes to play in a traders mind, that if I got to keep a winning trade longer the market might take my profits back, as opposite to a losing trades, I will hold on to this trade because somehow it will retrace back to my open price and becomes profitable or break even.
  • #845
  • Feb 12, 2017 6:11pm Feb 12, 2017 6:11pm
Quoting techboy46
Most trades tends to hold on in a losing trades than let a winning trades run longer to get more profits
True, for most newcomers trading is about winning frequently ("Hey look, I am correct 70% of the time!"), while the real goal of trading is to make money in the long run.
For them, being right is their top priority.
  • #846
  • Feb 12, 2017 6:49pm Feb 12, 2017 6:49pm
Quoting techboy46
{quote} Agree, but I think this case mostly happen only to beginners in this business but in general most traders uses a strategy that risk more as against to small winners, this is attested if we go to popular copy trade sites such as MQL5 and Zulu. Most trades tends to hold on in a losing trades than let a winning trades run longer to get more profits, perhaps the psychological aspect comes to play in a traders mind, that if I got to keep a winning trade longer the market might take my profits back, as opposite to a losing trades, I will hold...
but in zulu, mq5 and many managing accounts you cant compare this situation. the "managers " (often only gambler) know, that they win most when they do many many trades (because they get a fee for a trade or signal fee with many clients) and need to show good performance to have most clients. so near all use simple martingale and hold on losers. (its same like many here doing to, ghostbiker, aider, zr.. many many all this people who open copy service and managing accounts).

they simple know that the account will be killed today or in same months, but it will be killed. be they win because they dont own the money (only their clients lose, the manager only invest cents or even only demo accounts because they know they will lose), they get shared profit, win in commissions/spread partially and so on.... so they have a big advantage in take biggest risk and holding on loser to show best performance. when it will bust account they restart and game starts again, so simple is 90% of managing accounts even here in forexfactory.

so this managers are more liars or thiefs then bad traders, because they know the money will be lost and they get the wins from it with putting the risk for this strategy to the client. thats the only way to trade martingale or without any stoploss. so they are smart liars and thiefs for the client, because they dont invest in their own strategy (or only very little to fake it).

and this will never change because their are enough stupid people to believe such bad people, and cant evaluate a traded strategy by trade history and dont believe the more experienced traders.
  • #847
  • Feb 12, 2017 7:04pm Feb 12, 2017 7:04pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} but in zulu, mq5 and many managing accounts you cant compare this situation. the "managers " (often only gambler) know, that they win most when they do many many trades (because they get a fee for a trade or signal fee with many clients) and need to show good performance to have most clients. so near all use simple martingale and hold on losers. (its same like many here doing to, ghostbiker, aider, zr.. many many all this people who open copy service and managing accounts). they simple know that the account will be killed today or in same...
Good point, but I wonder why is it that there are no signal providers in these websites that were mentioned that uses a legit strategy that can provide profits in the long run? Why it is that legit and professional traders shy away from this copy signal websites? or is there really such a strategy that can give consistent profits over a long period of time?
  • #848
  • Edited 7:24pm Feb 12, 2017 7:08pm | Edited 7:24pm
Quoting techboy46
{quote} Good point, but I wonder why is it that there are no signal providers in these websites that were mentioned that uses a legit strategy that can provide profits in the long run? Why it is that legit and professional traders shy away from this copy signal websites? or is there really such a strategy that can give consistent profits over a long period of time?
thats easy to say. because this websites live from this. they get 20-50% from the signal fee/ profit share/ commission or spread part. so they will never say anything against this systems, they will do the max possible to hide the facts at best, so that most will try it again and again.

this systems with martingale or no SL are the most loved systems for this websites. so you win the big money and bring the money from the clients pocket to the websites pocket. many websites have even an agreement with a broker that they get 50% from the losses of the clients. so why they should do anything against this systems, you cant win more. only loser are the investors in this systems. but this are many small investors, they will do it again and again or new will come.

its not the goal to earn money for the investors, its a goal to earn money for the signal providers and for the website. and this is best possible with this systems that have high risk and fail allways by struture. they must fail offcourse. but thats not bad for them, you earn by burning this accounts a lot, when you are not an investor.
so why someone shall invest slow and ok, when can win 1000 times more by burning accounts? until the account wil be burned even all martingale or without Sl traded accounts look wow and super save and impressive , thats normal by math. so you can find fast clients who cant evaluate why this results happened, and there are so many stupid beginners. the greed is so big to invest in this, so many shut down their brain, it will work again and again.

even when you say a beginner, this is bullshit and martingale and will burn your account at some points, even then you will find many who dont believe you. the websites live from such people.
  • #849
  • Edited 3:43am Feb 13, 2017 3:28am | Edited 3:43am
You can be more disciplined if you actually have a trading plan written down and by having it next to your trading platform to read everyday.
You can list all the rules for each part of your strategy.
Not just the trading method, but also your trading objectives & goals, your pre-market/post-market activities, your risk management rules,
your trading equipment - platform & tools, your continuing education/research, your discipline mindset rules in BOLD.

Three equally important parts of the whole strategy:
Attached Image


A nice little mantra:

  1. I will be disciplined every day, and in every trade.
  2. I will be my own trading “self”, never trading another’s plan.
  3. I love taking small losses.
  4. I will always earn the right to trade bigger.
  5. I am not addicted to trading just to see what happens.
  6. I will only trade high reward setups that have the probabilities in their favor.
  7. I will be a bricklayer – making the same type of trades over and over again.
  8. Once I find a setup, I do not hesitate; once in a trade, I do not over analyze.
  9. I will always keep a detailed trading log/journal and will act upon what it tells me.
  10. Everything I do will be for the success of my business!!!

It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #850
  • Feb 14, 2017 6:03am Feb 14, 2017 6:03am
I believe this fits here (Risk Intelligence):

Inserted Video
  • #851
  • Feb 15, 2017 9:29am Feb 15, 2017 9:29am
Quoting Mr Breakout
Here is an interesting article called "What Can Separate Successful Traders from the Rest?" https://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundam...rs-series.html The author and his team examined 30 million trades and came up with some very interesting facts.
Interesting article, although it looks a bit like promotional material for one particular broker with all those banners. Thank you for sharing
  • #852
  • Feb 15, 2017 10:23am Feb 15, 2017 10:23am
Quoting Shabs19
You can be more disciplined if you actually have a trading plan written down and by having it next to your trading platform to read everyday. You can list all the rules for each part of your strategy. Not just the trading method, but also your trading objectives & goals, your pre-market/post-market activities, your risk management rules, your trading equipment - platform & tools, your continuing education/research, your discipline mindset rules in BOLD. Three equally important parts of the whole strategy: forex-trading-plan.gif;2184841 A nice little...
Thank you for sharing.
Green pips to you.
Cheers!
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #853
  • Feb 16, 2017 8:38am Feb 16, 2017 8:38am
An interesting article about how to conquer your fears.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf physiology of fear.pdf   214 KB | 321 downloads


Les Brown on Getting past your fears:

Inserted Video
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #854
  • Feb 18, 2017 3:22pm Feb 18, 2017 3:22pm
Another good read:
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf The Warriors Discipline of Trading.pdf   84 KB | 490 downloads
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #855
  • Feb 18, 2017 9:00pm Feb 18, 2017 9:00pm
Quoting Shabs19
Another good read: {image}
Good share.
Thank you.
Cheers!
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #856
  • Edited 4:48am Feb 19, 2017 1:15am | Edited 4:48am
I've always had a big problem making disciplined exits, and I've found the 'practical' solutions that I described here more helpful than the self-help books and videos. But then I suppose everybody is different.

With regard to point #3 in the link, and since parting company with my last trading buddy, I've found that input from a non-trading household member can be preferable, in that he/she is less likely to try to influence my decision making. In other words, I remain in control of the underlying trading rationale, but my 'helper' ensures that all execution is kept objective.
  • #857
  • Feb 19, 2017 11:40am Feb 19, 2017 11:40am
I love forex so much because market is no respecter of persons.Forex market does not take ignorance as an excuse and it instantly punishes every form of indiscipline.
  • #858
  • Feb 19, 2017 11:43am Feb 19, 2017 11:43am
Quoting hanover
I've always had a big problem making disciplined exits, and I've found the 'practical' solutions that I described here more helpful than the self-help books and videos. But then I suppose everybody is different. With regard to point #3 in the link, and since parting company with my last trading buddy, I've found that input from a non-trading household member can be preferable, in that he/she is less likely to try to influence my decision making. In other words,...
Hello Hanover,

Great Insights about handling exits. Will seriously try to implement them. As you said, Walking away makes sense as there is no added benefit for staying in front of screen. The stress part when the mind starts playing games.

You also talked about conducting interviews in the rookie section in the context of trading buddy, on that note what is your take on hiring somebody to do the trading for you, i mean a human EA if you will. The strategy, rules, entry and exit are specified by you and just the execution part is handled by the hiree? [Mostly in context of trying to avoid the emotions as the person would be distant/indifferent vis a vis the trading capital]

Thanks
  • #859
  • Edited Feb 20, 2017 10:43am Feb 19, 2017 3:37pm | Edited Feb 20, 2017 10:43am
Quoting aaven
what is your take on hiring somebody to do the trading for you...... The strategy, rules, entry and exit are specified by you and just the execution part is handled by the hiree?
I didn't hire anybody. At various times I've had three different buddies who were all traders. We would simply chat on skype, sometimes exchanging strategies and ideas and talking about trading in general; sometimes we would talk about women, sports, politics, world events, computer gaming, whatever...... anything to pass the time and alleviate boredom and loneliness, while watching and discussing charts and monitoring our respective trades.

The arrangement was that whenever I wanted to exit a position I would have to justify my reasons, and obtain my buddy's permission to do so. If I took profit too early, he would accuse me of self-sabotage (which was all part of the arrangement). Instead of listening to voices inside my own head, he would be saying things like "C'mon Dave, if you exit now, it's violating your rules and you know you're going to regret it later". I also found it helpful to have somebody with whom I could have a light-hearted competition with; we would see who had banked more pips at the end of each month. As long as it remains fun, and egos stay out of it, it can work.

Nowadays my wife (who coincidentally has a masters degree in psychology!) supervises my exits, and when she is not available I use EAs and go to bed (I live in NZ, the US/UK sessions occur from evening through the night here). She knows very little about trading, which is good in the sense that she doesn't try to influence my decision making. Again, I must justify to her objectively why I should exit.

All I did was attempt to apply some obvious common sense. Why buy self help books or videos, or pay for NLP or psychotherapy, when there are more practical, and less expensive, solutions? It's simply a case of honestly and objectively assessing your personal strengths and weaknesses, and establishing which parts of your strategy require your intelligence and discretionary input, and which mechanical parts can be safely delegated to a 'dumb' EA. Or failing that, finding somebody with a suitable schedule and personality type that you can work with compatibly. If it's another trader, you can help and encourage each other, especially through hard times; it's a mutually beneficial arrangement that doesn't necessitate one person paying the other.
  • #860
  • Feb 19, 2017 11:10pm Feb 19, 2017 11:10pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} I didn't hire anybody. At various times I've had three different buddies who were all traders. We would simply chat on skype, sometimes exchanging strategies and ideas and talking about trading in general; sometimes we would talk about women, sports, politics, world events, computer gaming, whatever...... anything to pass the time and alleviate boredom and loneliness, while watching and discussing charts and monitoring our respective trades. The arrangement was that whenever I wanted to exit a position I would have to justify my reasons,...
Great Thought Provoking experience you shared Hanover...

Checks and Balances with external help that is objective...

One question if you could,: In the future, one of my ideas is to hire somebody to do the trading on my behalf (Mitigating the emotional aspect of trading): Executing the Entry and Exit and the guidelines being provided by me? Do you see any potential downside to this kind of approach? In general what are your thoughts on such a thing...


Thanks for taking the time
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