Space Symmetry, Time Illusion, Price Fractals and PA | Forex Factory

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Attachments: Space Symmetry, Time Illusion, Price Fractals and PA
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Space Symmetry, Time Illusion, Price Fractals and PA

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Mar 19, 2017 9:34am Feb 13, 2017 1:43am | Edited Mar 19, 2017 9:34am
Once I know more about the direction of the thread and what to do with it, I'll update this post.

For now, this is an experimental investigation of the market, could be a total failure or the first step towards an unified market model.
Meanwhile, these threads are a good foundation: PIE, RTM, QM, Harmonics, WW
Most of the stuff discussed here is not my invention or discovery, greatly inspired by:
- Ifmyante and friends over at RTM
- Redsword11
- Mr.Pip (Damian Castilla)
- Sam Seiden
- Bill Wolfe
- Expo33
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #2
  • Feb 13, 2017 2:16am Feb 13, 2017 2:16am
Quoting juriFX
Once I know more about the direction of the thread and what to do with it, I'll update this post. For now, this is an experimental investigation of the market, could be a total failure or the first step towards an unified market model.
Will we be discussing already established system are will we make one of your own? I like topics like this one.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #3
  • Feb 13, 2017 2:50am Feb 13, 2017 2:50am
Hi mate, I'm trying to make sense of what I've learned over the years.
Interestingly, one concept on its own (like PA, quasimodo levels, SR levels, SD, etc...) doesn't work without the context of price, in my opinion.
So the purpose of this thread is to combine different concepts into a framework to describe and forecast price.
In the first part, I'll make some price forecasts to see if what I've learned has an edge and validity.
After that and only if it shows potential, I think we can continue to the second part, which is, discussing and investigating together how to improve our framework.
No, most of this is not my own creation, I'll give credit once a given concept is introduced.

I'm focusing on price symmetry, PA and market structure as this is what I've found useful and promising but don't expect an holy grail.

For me, there's a general market law:
"The market moves in such a way that will always cause the maximum possible pain" -- redword11

Why is this a law?
The market is in its nature a system to allow only few to succeed while the crowd must always be on the other losing side.
It's a zero sum game and the market will always cause the maximum pain because as soon as a concept, like SR, SD, trend lines and similar, is used by the crowd (becomes popular) then the market has to rebalance itself by changing behavior and make a new small group of successful traders that take the other side of the losing trades. The market doesn't change that often, or if at all, because human behavior (emotional reaction) remains more or less the same over time.

Disclaimer for this and future posts: I'm not a guru or master and don't pretend to be right, everything expressed is my own opinion. Investigate what you find on your own to see if it holds any value to you. What helped me a lot in learning and reading the market was exactly this investigation and many hours of chart time while trying to comprehend what other great teachers and traders have been saying over and over...
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #4
  • Feb 13, 2017 2:58am Feb 13, 2017 2:58am
Quoting juriFX
Hi mate, I'm trying to make sense of what I've learned over the years. Interestingly, one concept on its own (like PA, quasimodo levels, SR levels, SD, etc...) doesn't work without the context of price, in my opinion. So the purpose of this thread is to combine different concepts into a framework to describe and forecast price. In the first part, I'll make some price forecasts to see if what I've learned has an edge and validity. After that and only if it shows potential, I think we can continue to the second part, which is, discussing and investigating...
When I lose my way I will use this.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDH4.png Size: 88 KB
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #5
  • Feb 13, 2017 3:02am Feb 13, 2017 3:02am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} When I lose my way I will use this.
Mate, can I call you when my ship starts sinking, too? I think you can save us, both! I have never seen anything better than this new directional plan...
Attached Image
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #6
  • Feb 13, 2017 3:05am Feb 13, 2017 3:05am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} When I lose my way I will use this. {image}
Sure, I'll bet this helps you to understand price.

Symmetry is my favorite
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EU 4h.png Size: 60 KB
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #7
  • Feb 13, 2017 3:20am Feb 13, 2017 3:20am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} Mate, can I call you when my ship starts sinking, too? I think you can save us, both! I have never seen anything better than this new directional plan... foolish006 copy.jpg;2184816 {image}
Ichimoku is not well understood, but when you do understand it you can immediately tell where price is and what it has been doing recently.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #8
  • Feb 13, 2017 3:24am Feb 13, 2017 3:24am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Ichimoku is not well understood, but when you do understand it you can immediately tell where price is and what it has been doing recently.
Never looked at it, since it's derived from price like every other indicator, so why not focus on price directly?

USDJPY
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #9
  • Feb 13, 2017 3:28am Feb 13, 2017 3:28am
Quoting juriFX
For me, there's a general market law: "The market moves in such a way that will always cause the maximum possible pain" -- redword11
Agreed. Following with interest, thanks.
Cheers,
k
  • #10
  • Feb 13, 2017 3:32am Feb 13, 2017 3:32am
Quoting juriFX
{quote} Never looked at it, since it's derived from price like every other indicator, so why not focus on price directly? USDJPY uj 2h.png;2184837 {image}
That's a great point, and many here know that I am a price action trader. After you grasp price action, indicators are just icing on the cake. I have not found an indicator based system to tells me every thing in your title, at one glance. No staring at the chart. You know instantly what is going on.

A PA example using this indicator as support is that the bulls were only able to muster a double top close. It is easy to see with the Chikou Span( The purple line). We can easily see that this is a bear flag in a bear trend. This will stop me personally from buying. Clearly the momentum is on the side of the bears.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDH4.png Size: 84 KB
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #11
  • Feb 13, 2017 12:13pm Feb 13, 2017 12:13pm
EURGBP HTF view, expecting lower prices to the HTF target
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eg d.png Size: 54 KB


At the same time on a lower scale:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eg 2h.png Size: 64 KB


The next tg is very close, this means most of the time price hits it right after or just after a small retrace.
I'm interested in cases where price doesn't hit the tg (circles on my charts) after engulfing into space (zone between symmetrical levels, orange boxes on my charts) and goes for a deep retrace because these offer a real trading opportunity (great RR ratio).

Not an explanation of this trading style, just a note how to read my charts, eventually 2nd phase of this thread will get into it
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #12
  • Feb 14, 2017 5:52am Feb 14, 2017 5:52am
Quoting juriFX
EURGBP HTF view, expecting lower prices to the HTF target eg d.png;2185472 At the same time on a lower scale: eg 2h.png;2185475 The next tg is very close, this means most of the time price hits it right after or just after a small retrace. I'm interested in cases where price doesn't hit the tg (circles on my charts) after engulfing into space (zone between symmetrical levels, orange boxes on my charts) and goes for a deep retrace because these offer a real trading opportunity (great RR ratio). Not an explanation of this trading style, just a note...
Thanks JuriFX for this thread,
Am looking Forward to more from you. Looking at your trading it seems you follow price with flags and engulfs.Awesome! Realised this is the best way of trading. My problem i have now is structure and pinpointing entries at origin after engulf,It gets confusing.Distinguishing when its an FO or engulf to put pending order at origin and how safely to place my SL to avoid being stophunted. Sorry if am rushing you into what you are yet to go into,Forgive me as am here to try and learn.
Hope u can clarify on these for me, Thank you so much for starting this, hope to learn alot from you and other great traders.
I attached a chart for clarity. Forgive my chart labelling skills, Just learning
Stay well
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #13
  • Edited 8:16am Feb 14, 2017 8:03am | Edited 8:16am
Attached an explorer to track the performance of the first phase. Pending orders are hidden as I don't want this to become a signals service.
I'm trying to be transparent as possible, this is what I always wished from a teacher.
I admire traders and teachers like Mr. Pip (Damian Castilla) who eat their own food and even go further like showing live trading on real account, I won't go as far but I think a demo account to see if this stuff works or not is the least I can do.

Failure or success, I have nothing to lose or to hide. If it works great, if not, then time to move on

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GU 1H.png Size: 31 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GU 1H2.png Size: 28 KB


Quoting kfx2016
{quote} Thanks JuriFX for this thread, Am looking Forward to more from you. Looking at your trading it seems you follow price with flags and engulfs.Awesome! Realised this is the best way of trading. My problem i have now is structure and pinpointing entries at origin after engulf,It gets confusing.Distinguishing when its an FO or engulf to put pending order at origin and how safely to place my SL to avoid being stophunted. Sorry if am rushing you into what you are yet to go into,Forgive me as am here to try and learn. Hope u can clarify on these...
thanks,
I'll get to this later in the thread, but we won't avoid losing trades and a fake out (FO) can always happen after an ideal entry, as long as we are more often right than wrong (or as long as RRR is favorable then all is good).
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #14
  • Feb 14, 2017 8:29am Feb 14, 2017 8:29am
Thanks for this thread Juri ... you are doing great work here & also on RTM ( i dont have access there now) ... keep up the good work
and nice trade .....
Don't Predict Just React..
  • #15
  • Feb 14, 2017 11:21am Feb 14, 2017 11:21am
Quoting juriFX
Attached an explorer to track the performance of the first phase. Pending orders are hidden as I don't want this to become a signals service. I'm trying to be transparent as possible, this is what I always wished from a teacher. I admire traders and teachers like Mr. Pip (Damian Castilla) who eat their own food and even go further like showing live trading on real account, I won't go as far but I think a demo account to see if this stuff works or not is the least I can do. Failure or success, I have nothing to lose or to hide. If it works great,...
Thanks for your reply,
Am looking forward to it. Realised that flag u traded but wanted to pinpoint your entry and why but not sure wc LTF u used. Hope in future u can share the entry price after the fact and the TF flag to pinpoint that price. Have been to Mr Pip youtube channel and watched almost all his videos.He is a great teacher and trader and am glad if i can learn more from those he mentored.
My entry missed by a pip on USDCAD, it would be great trade. Mosttimes it misses by a pip but am glad atleast it turns. Thank you so much and hope to finetune in future.Tomorrow is another day, hopefully i will catch one.Look forward to your next contribution.
Thank you
  • #16
  • Feb 14, 2017 11:50am Feb 14, 2017 11:50am
Quoting juriFX
Attached an explorer to track the performance of the first phase. Pending orders are hidden as I don't want this to become a signals service. I'm trying to be transparent as possible, this is what I always wished from a teacher. I admire traders and teachers like Mr. Pip (Damian Castilla) who eat their own food and even go further like showing live trading on real account, I won't go as far but I think a demo account to see if this stuff works or not is the least I can do. Failure or success, I have nothing to lose or to hide. If it works great,...
  • #17
  • Feb 15, 2017 6:04pm Feb 15, 2017 6:04pm
Quoting juriFX
{quote} USDJPY {image}
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: uj 2hr.png Size: 59 KB
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #18
  • Feb 15, 2017 6:07pm Feb 15, 2017 6:07pm
Quoting juriFX
{quote}EURUSD {image}
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EU 4hr.png Size: 55 KB
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #19
  • Edited 5:45pm Mar 17, 2017 5:34pm | Edited 5:45pm
Did not trade much lately with this demo account but I'll try to do this with more commitment now.

This week was not that great, few winners, some trades still open, posting a bit of the reasons I saw at the time:

XAUUSD
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Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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EURUSD
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Click to Enlarge Name: eu 4h.png Size: 55 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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By the way, I'm also looking into some kind of "trend wash wave", doing some research and tests, the basic idea I posted here (awesome thread about wolfe waves). If it shows promise could be a good addition to our framework, especially because it takes the manipulation of the crowd into account which, as posted above, is a great market principle.
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
  • #20
  • Mar 17, 2017 5:43pm Mar 17, 2017 5:43pm
Quoting juriFX
[...] At the same time on a lower scale: {image} [...]
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURGBP 4H tg.png Size: 50 KB


tg hit with no retrace
the 3rd wave is the crowd's wave
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