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Trading Institutional Order Flow

  • #2,541
  • Feb 9, 2017 2:53am Feb 9, 2017 2:53am
Great answer

Quoting Akt
{quote} Hello Alex If I may, the "most appropriate" trade would be looking for selling opportunities. The reason being the daily trend and daily zones would by definition be stronger and carry more weight than a 4hr zone. You see, when trends are re-aligning, the turn starts from inside-out, on smaller time-frames and propagates outwards, to the bigger time-frame. So a turn upwards in the 4h is desirable, for example, so as to get the shorting opportunity you want on the daily if the daily trend is still down. Now it is important to understand that...
To break the rules you must first master them.
  • #2,542
  • Feb 9, 2017 4:02am Feb 9, 2017 4:02am
Hello, my today's struggles and ask for your opinion
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my dream Australia.....
  • #2,543
  • Feb 9, 2017 4:03am Feb 9, 2017 4:03am
Hi guys, yestarday's short didn't work out, but daily trend is still down and price is still in daily supply area. Let's see how this one goes
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To break the rules you must first master them.
  • #2,544
  • Feb 9, 2017 4:52am Feb 9, 2017 4:52am
Hello,
I am new to this thread and S.A.D trading. However, I have spent a lot of time looking at charts over the years and have certainly heard of supply and demand trading. When looking at it in the past however I was unable to gain any traction. I stumbled upon this thread a few days ago and have been reading, watching webinars and you tube post's trying to absorb as much as possible. This has given me a new way to look at the charts, and, well here I go...
I have been busily trying to analyse some charts and have been looking at the AUDJPY.
Any comments at all about what I have done would be much appreciated.
The chart of most interest to me is the daily. Upward momentum seems to be broken. Weekly supply overhead. Although not shown on the chart, there is a demand at 85.00-85.50 which is currently holding up price. Seems there is a lot of demand whenever it reaches this zone. 4hr chart is messy. Anyway I have had a go at it. Thinking that I should be looking to short ??? But current demand is very high?
Sure, I should stay out, if unsure. Just curious what people more experienced in this way of trading think?

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  • #2,545
  • Feb 9, 2017 4:58am Feb 9, 2017 4:58am
Quoting Mr.PhiBo
Hi guys, yestarday's short didn't work out, but daily trend is still down and price is still in daily supply area. Let's see how this one goes Zrzut ekranu 2017-02-09 o 11.03.03.png;2179883 {image}
Hello mr. Phibo,

If i may...i had same mistakes like you. When H4 momentum is broken and you short counter H4 trend, you must short at daily supply.
  • #2,546
  • Feb 9, 2017 5:09am Feb 9, 2017 5:09am
Quoting Michele86
{quote} Hello mr. Phibo, If i may...i had same mistakes like you. When H4 momentum is broken and you short counter H4 trend, you must short at daily supply.
Hi Michele, I don't think that yestardays short was mistake. In this particular daily supply there were two H4 supply zones. First one was on the lower edge, the second one is deep nested. We don't know which will work until it happened. And it all depends from market sentiment, so it's hard to guess which of those two will work (if daily trend won't change). Well at least I don't know the way to predict which I should take
To break the rules you must first master them.
  • #2,547
  • Feb 9, 2017 5:23am Feb 9, 2017 5:23am
Quoting Mr.PhiBo
{quote} Hi Michele, I don't think that yestardays short was mistake. In this particular daily supply there were two H4 supply zones. First one was on the lower edge, the second one is deep nested. We don't know which will work until it happened. And it all depends from market sentiment, so it's hard to guess which of those two will work (if daily trend won't change). Well at least I don't know the way to predict which I should take
Yes we dont know what happend, but for me was low score daily potential supply, not 2:1 departure by long wick...also for me was not supply..
  • #2,548
  • Feb 9, 2017 5:40am Feb 9, 2017 5:40am
Quoting Michele86
{quote} Yes we dont know what happend, but for me was low score daily potential supply, not 2:1 departure by long wick...also for me was not supply..
What do you think about this ? A removed 0, B removed A, C removed B
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To break the rules you must first master them.
  • #2,549
  • Feb 9, 2017 6:02am Feb 9, 2017 6:02am
Quoting Mr.PhiBo
{quote} What do you think about this ? A removed 0, B removed A, C removed BZrzut ekranu 2017-02-09 o 12.39.07.png;2180104 {image}
For me 0 had great depature, great level but didnt work because daily trend was clear down trend...price react to upside at weekly demand that broken highs on the left

A - not works because price hit weekly demand and doesnt me to able trade daily supply vs. Weekly demand in control.
B - bad quality, deprture i mean. But works little.

C - i wrote what i mean.

Look at weekly, up hold price weekly supply, down weekly demand...you trade in the middle.
  • #2,550
  • Feb 9, 2017 6:36am Feb 9, 2017 6:36am
Quoting Michele86
{quote} For me 0 had great depature, great level but didnt work because daily trend was clear down trend...price react to upside at weekly demand that broken highs on the left A - not works because price hit weekly demand and doesnt me to able trade daily supply vs. Weekly demand in control. B - bad quality, deprture i mean. But works little. C - i wrote what i mean. Look at weekly, up hold price weekly supply, down weekly demand...you trade in the middle.
Sorry but I don't agree with you. Price balances between weekly supply and demand, and supply is in control. Daily supply "C" is for me a valid supply (not the pretty one but still a supply) due to removing opposing demand zone, daily trend is down. So taking short at H4 nested in D1 was a reasonable trade.
To break the rules you must first master them.
  • #2,551
  • Feb 9, 2017 6:54am Feb 9, 2017 6:54am
Quoting Mr.PhiBo
{quote} Sorry but I don't agree with you. Price balances between weekly supply and demand, and supply is in control. Daily supply "C" is for me a valid supply (not the pretty one but still a supply) due to removing opposing demand zone, daily trend is down. So taking short at H4 nested in D1 was a reasonable trade.
Okay, it is your opinion. I want only tell you what i mean about trade. I hade much trades against bigger time frame level in control and i now understand why wasnt a good idea. I am learned from Alfonso Moreno rules and every trade i ask me who is vs. me that level and why...
  • #2,552
  • Feb 9, 2017 8:09am Feb 9, 2017 8:09am
Hey Everyone and AKT

I Have a question maybe my fellow supply and demand traders can help me out.
I broker with FXCM and after all this stuff going down with them I am considering changing brokers.

Does anyone have any reccomendations???

There are options as Oanda, FXCHOICE etc.

They seem to use MetaTrader 4 or 5

I love charting with Tradingview and would be awesome to trade right from those charts.

Looking for something that works well for supply and demand..

Any help or feedback would be greatly appreciated guys..

Thank you

Jim Price

Trade Safe
  • #2,553
  • Feb 9, 2017 8:53am Feb 9, 2017 8:53am
Quoting Michele86
{quote} Okay, it is your opinion. I want only tell you what i mean about trade. I hade much trades against bigger time frame level in control and i now understand why wasnt a good idea. I am learned from Alfonso Moreno rules and every trade i ask me who is vs. me that level and why...
Every traders had had the same opinion, there wouldn't have been market. Every discussion is constructive.
To break the rules you must first master them.
  • #2,554
  • Feb 9, 2017 9:02am Feb 9, 2017 9:02am
USDCAD in play:
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To break the rules you must first master them.
  • #2,555
  • Feb 9, 2017 9:41am Feb 9, 2017 9:41am
Hi AKTand all members

Just want to ask
Can we use S&D strategy in lower time frame, like H1, M30 or M15 ?
Based on your experience, which time frame is the highest winning rate ratio ?

Thanks
  • #2,556
  • Edited 9:32pm Feb 9, 2017 10:40am | Edited 9:32pm
Quoting ricyangz
Hi AKTand all members Just want to ask Can we use S&D strategy in lower time frame, like H1, M30 or M15 ? Based on your experience, which time frame is the highest winning rate ratio ? Thanks
SaD strategy works on ALL timeframes. Because it considers the basic laws of supply and demand. However, the lower you go the more noise you'll see on the charts, potentially increasing confusion, exhaustion and paralysis when deciding on significant levels. You will need experience and lots of it to trade lower timeframes because markets can move much more suddenly in lower timeframes.

That being said, timeframes are a function of your goals and your personality. Are you an impatient person? What are your goals with trading? These are the questions you need to ask yourself.

The following are the sequences I suggest for MT4 people because we have a limited amount of timeframes we can see.

Monthly/Weekly/Daily <-- position trading, lots of time to decide what you want to do, extreme watching paint dry patience required but it allows for freedom from computer and especially if you have another job/career.
Weekly/Daily/4H <-- swing trading, lots of time to decide, optimal for someone who cannot be at the charts all day but can check every 4 hours usually someone with a day job.
Daily/4H/1H <-- interday trading, begins to be time consuming need to be at the computer every hour to 4 hours.
4H/1H/15m <-- intraday, you will need to sit infront of your charts all day.
1H/15m/5m <-- SCALPING, only recommended for experienced traders and if you can trade the Euro and New York session, all positions need to be closed before New York closes. Hit and run mentality required.


Getting a high win rate is not dependent on timeframe but your skill. That is it. In my opinion, trading lower timeframes is not worth it in the end due to the rush/stress and sitting infront of your computer watching the candles dance around. You want trading to be boring AF because when it is, you know you are doing it right.

Cheers.
DenDen.
  • #2,557
  • Feb 9, 2017 1:24pm Feb 9, 2017 1:24pm
Long time lurker here, just finished reading through the entire 128 pages of this outstanding thread.

I actually created a folder in which I saved many of the annotated charts that were graciously uploaded, as well as assorted commentary, tips, guiding principles etc. that were posted throughout the history of the thread - While this all needs to be organized and catalogued, I highly suggest anyone interested in learning Institutional Order Flow trading, as taught by AKT (The Yoda of IOFT), do the same. I still have a long way to go learning and applying this methodology, but going through the entire thread was very very helpful to building a good mental framework.

The Youtube videos @ Storehouse Analytics (Created by AKT) are excellent, and I am still working my way through these, taking notes along the way via my Google Document.

A little background -

IOFT is actually something I stumbled onto while researching methods of market analysis that emphasize structure and rely exclusively on universal market principles (Supply and Demand, Support and Resistance, certain principles of auction market theory, VPA (to a limited extent), as I shy away from dealing with any sort of indicators. I focus on works by Lance Beggs, Bob Volman, Al Brooks, Tom Williams (Master the Markets), and Gary Dayton (Mind Over Markets).

I use price action to analyze movements between price levels, VPA to analyze the strength and weakness of price action movements between levels, auction market theory to understand market structure and the overall nature of movements between levels, and last but not at all least, IOFT to give the market more definitive price level structure and plan trades if level breaches are imminent. I do not combine these approaches, as they are complementary and can be applied alongside one another depending on whether the market is trending, consolidating, etc. Reading and marking up my books, taking notes, reviewing this forum and watching the EUR/USD (My primary focus for trading at this point) comprises my daily routine.

I will not expound too much there as this is an IOFT thread, but wanted to at least provide an idea of how I approach the markets as this is my first forum post. AKT - if this is interfering with the spirit of the thread I will not be at all put off if you choose to remove it. I just have enjoyed reading everyone's experiences so far and thought I would put in my own, but no offense intended whatsoever, I am just thrilled to be a part of the discussion.

Very much looking forward to posting my own analyses in the future and obtaining the feedback of the many great minds present.
  • #2,558
  • Feb 9, 2017 7:24pm Feb 9, 2017 7:24pm
Quoting LateStarter
Long time lurker here, just finished reading through the entire 128 pages of this outstanding thread. I actually created a folder in which I saved many of the annotated charts that were graciously uploaded, as well as assorted commentary, tips, guiding principles etc. that were posted throughout the history of the thread - While this all needs to be organized and catalogued, I highly suggest anyone interested in learning Institutional Order Flow trading, as taught by AKT (The Yoda of IOFT), do the same. I still have a long way to go learning and...
Hello Latestarter
Welcome back
Thank you very much for your kind words and for you entire post
The dedication you have demonstrated to learning your craft is awesome and commendable.
This is exactly the spirit of the thread, understanding this takes work and time and dedication and perseverance.
So thank you for putting it all in words way better than i could.
Don't be a stranger, hang out with us
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #2,559
  • Feb 9, 2017 7:25pm Feb 9, 2017 7:25pm
Quoting Denden2012
{quote} SaD strategy works on ALL timeframes. Because it considers the basic laws of supply and demand. However, the lower you go the more noise you'll see on the charts, potentially increasing confusion, exhaustion and paralysis when deciding on significant levels. You will need experience and lots of it to trade lower timeframes because markets can move much more suddenly in lower timeframes. That being said, timeframes are a function of your goals and your personality. Are you an impatient person? What are your goals with trading? These are the...
Hello Denden2012
Well said sir.
Too proud of you.

best wishes
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
  • #2,560
  • Feb 9, 2017 7:31pm Feb 9, 2017 7:31pm
Quoting ricyangz
Hi AKTand all members Just want to ask Can we use S&D strategy in lower time frame, like H1, M30 or M15 ? Based on your experience, which time frame is the highest winning rate ratio ? Thanks
Hello ricyangz. Good to meet you
Welcome to T.I.O.F

As Denden2012 has so well elaborated, the methodology is usable on all timeframes, all markets, all asset classes
The lower in timeframe one goes, the more skill will be required so the more development the trader will need to achieve.
The skill i refer to though is not really the mechanics of the methodology because as i said, the methodology is the same regardless of the timeframe it is applied to.
The skill that is required is a mental, psychological one.
Developing mental skills that enables the trader to function with the appropriate mental structures that suit the timeframes he/she trades
This is where the work must be done.

best wishes
Be careful what you think because your thoughts run your life..Solomon
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