Most traders fail because of no discipline! | Page 33 | Forex Factory

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Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #641
  • Edited 7:39pm Feb 2, 2017 7:11pm | Edited 7:39pm
Quoting techboy46
In reality trading is a very hard profession you got to be dead serious in your learning if you want to become one of the elite in this profession.
Absolutely.

Trading will keep challenging us in EVERY possible way, especially emotionally, not to mention financially.

It is a very hard profession because it goes against our human nature: We humans love to take quick small profits but refuse to take a loss, even a small one (until the pain is too much to bare or we run out of money), while we should be doing the exact opposite.

It is also a challenging profession because most traders believe that trading is about being right.

They totally fail to realize that trading is about making money in the long run, not about being right. The biggest hedge funds make billions and yet they lose 70% of their trades and win only 30% of the time, on average, because they stick to sound money management plans (an ability that most traders lack anyway).
  • #642
  • Feb 2, 2017 8:12pm Feb 2, 2017 8:12pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} i found poker much more easy, because easy to learn, very small rules (at least so extrem simple playing styles like texas Hold em). you cant have events like gaps, flash crash (ok maybe someone coming and steal your money ;-) ) and broker busting (ok maybe someone coming and steal your money ;-) ) . at least you dont need to pay more in the account like your balance was before after big events. the risk of cheating players with fakes cards, dealers,... is like cheating broker. the most difficult in trading is you need to create a unique...

Things that you say about poker are correct in low stacks and recreational playing. In high stacks where you face with professional players everything is different. Not only you have to have a strategy but your strategy should be flexible and you should change it from time to time because professional traders can recognize it very fast and adapt themselves to it. There are also softwares that some use that show the statistics of regular players. There are also some other strategies, other than those softwares, to know your opponents. For examples one of the first thing that I would do when I seated at a table was labeling each person based on the number of tables they were at to categorize them in terms of professionalism.


With that said, there are some conditions that playing poker becomes harder than trading and in some areas it's the other way around. For example, as I said, in high stacks your opponents become more professional and very hard to deal with and your win rate decreases as you step up in stack. In some points you might shift from a winning player to losing one. If you can adapt yourself, your winrate still won't be the same as when you would play lower stacks. There is no such think in trading. Market is always the same whether you have an account of 100$ or 10000000$. However there might be some factors that should be taken into consideration and undergone changes such as MM and psychology.

  • #643
  • Feb 2, 2017 8:22pm Feb 2, 2017 8:22pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
It is also a challenging profession because most traders believe that trading is about being right. They totally fail to realize that trading is about making money in the long run, not about being right. The biggest hedge funds make billions and yet they lose 70% of their trades and win only 30% of the time, on average, because they stick to sound money management plans (an ability that most traders lack anyway).
Yes.
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #644
  • Feb 2, 2017 9:37pm Feb 2, 2017 9:37pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
{quote} Not necessarily, you can risk 2 units to make 1 unit and still make a killing in the long run, if your winning rate is high enough. On the other hand you could blow up your account even if you always risk 1 unit to earn 2 units. In itself the risk reward ratio is meaningless.
In itself the risk reward ratio is meaningless

are you kidding?
do u have any understanding about probability?
tell me what probability do you need to make 1 unit betting 2 units to be in profit?
tell me what probability do you need to make 2 units betting 1 unit to be in profit?

I am sure you make trades that have no chance of being profitable since risk to reward is meaningless to you.
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
  • #645
  • Feb 2, 2017 9:45pm Feb 2, 2017 9:45pm
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} In itself the risk reward ratio is meaningless are you kidding? do u have any understanding about probability? tell me what probability do you need to make 1 unit betting 2 units to be in profit? tell me what probability do you need to make 2 units betting 1 unit to be in profit? You need to assess the probability of you bet to the reward to determine if the trade has a chance of being profitable. risk to reward is meaningless. RUBBISH
he is correct about it.reward risk ratio is useless (meaningless), only together with probability its to use. if you have 2:1 and win 33% its offcourse not bether then 1:2 and you win 70% of your trades.

so using only reward risk ratio is not possible and tells nathing about any strategy. that was what he was saying.
  • #646
  • Feb 2, 2017 9:58pm Feb 2, 2017 9:58pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} he is correct about it.reward risk ratio is useless (meaningless), only together with probability its to use. if you have 2:1 and win 33% its offcourse not bether then 1:2 and you win 70% of your trades. so using only reward risk ratio is not possible and tells nathing about any strategy. that was what he was saying.
I don't understand your english. But I understand your trades. Create a trading journal on FF so we can see how well you trade and how much you really understand trading. I look at your trading performance more than your comments.
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
  • #647
  • Feb 2, 2017 10:17pm Feb 2, 2017 10:17pm
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} I don't understand your english. But I understand your trades. Create a trading journal on FF so we can see how well you trade and how much you really understand trading. I look at your trading performance more than your comments.
i did simple correct your wrong sentence, nothing more. sometimes people cant accept there mistakes. whats impossible to understand?

"mr breakout" was correct with his posting and you did answered him incorrect to creect him. why you are not happy that someone corrected you (because mr breakout was correct), it will help you and you get bether with bether basic knowlege. and basic statistic is important to calculate risks.

if i would need any money from investing money for other, i would show you my trades. i trade so long, so i dont need any of this after doing such a long time in trading own money. so asking someone for showing trades, because he corrected your mistakes and you can only see that i am correct when i show you my trades? really? really really?
  • #648
  • Edited 10:44pm Feb 2, 2017 10:26pm | Edited 10:44pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} i did simple correct your wrong sentence, nothing more. sometimes people cant accept there mistakes. whats impossible to understand?
I understand you rather be right and try to correct people than be profitable. Nothing you have said has made me more profitable as a trader. The whole point of these threads is to become a more winning, profitable trader. Your comments doesn't do anything. Someone like you need to win arguments with aider because you cannot win at trading. This is your life. You talk a lot but show no trades. Until you post your trades, your performance you have no creditability.
My trades are posted at various threads for markets I am interested in. I cannot find any of your trades.

You and breakout are incorrect about risk to reward being meaningless. Your arguments are weak and has not changed my mind.

Correct me only if it makes me a more profitable trader. So far you haven't.
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
  • #649
  • Feb 2, 2017 10:28pm Feb 2, 2017 10:28pm
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} I understand you rather be right than be profitable. Nothing you have said has made me more profitable as a trader.
i dont want you a bether trader, i dont know how good you are, but i did make you smarter, because your mistake was extrem big, and this point is neccessary to understand for trading.

but normally you will be bether trader when you learn more the basics corrected, at least when you understand the probability after some time trading.

by the way: because when someone dont post trades its in most cases because he know what he does and can live with his trades. in maybe 10 years you will know what i speak about.
  • #650
  • Feb 2, 2017 10:43pm Feb 2, 2017 10:43pm
risk reward with out knowing the probability of the trades to win is useless. because then the system is not possible to value/calculate.
  • #651
  • Feb 2, 2017 10:48pm Feb 2, 2017 10:48pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} i dont want you a bether trader, i dont know how good you are, but i did make you smarter, because your mistake was extrem big, and this point is neccessary to understand for trading. but normally you will be bether trader when you learn more the basics corrected, at least when you understand the probability after some time trading. by the way: because when someone dont post trades its in most cases because he know what he does and can live with his trades. in maybe 10 years you will know what i speak about.
you are not my guru and did not ask you to comment. still waiting for your trades...........hmmmmm
aider is also waiting for your trades
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...93#post9518093

i wait for your trades so i can laugh because i know you cannot trade.
every trade you make i take the opposite and end up with profit.
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
  • #652
  • Feb 2, 2017 10:49pm Feb 2, 2017 10:49pm
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} you are not my guru. still waiting for your trades...........hmmmmm
you will wait for my trades ;-), you can wait long time, because i am not your guru :-), with your own sentence you did answered your sentence ;-), funny :-).
  • #653
  • Feb 2, 2017 10:57pm Feb 2, 2017 10:57pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} you will wait for my trades ;-), you can wait long time, because i am not your guru :-), with your own sentence you did answered your sentence ;-), funny :-).
remember every trade you make i take the opposite and end up with profit
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
  • #654
  • Feb 2, 2017 10:58pm Feb 2, 2017 10:58pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} i did simple correct your wrong sentence, nothing more. sometimes people cant accept there mistakes. whats impossible to understand? "mr breakout" was correct with his posting and you did answered him incorrect to creect him. why you are not happy that someone corrected you (because mr breakout was correct), it will help you and you get bether with bether basic knowlege. and basic statistic is important to calculate risks. if i would need any money from investing money for other, i would show you my trades. i trade so long, so i dont need...
I think the point of argument here is the word "meaningless", to me RR is an important aspect in trading, if you can develop a system with high winning percentage with a not so good RR then it would be much better if you can improve the RR to such system, RR and good trading strategy must work side by side in order for a trading system to succeed, RR is always a factor in trading you just have to find a way to improve your system, so it is wrong to say that its "meaningless".
  • #655
  • Feb 2, 2017 11:00pm Feb 2, 2017 11:00pm
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} remember every trade you make i take the opposite and end up with profit
wow, good improving when you trade this amounts, gratulation.
  • #656
  • Feb 2, 2017 11:03pm Feb 2, 2017 11:03pm
Quoting techboy46
{quote} I think the point of argument here is the word "meaningless", to me RR is an important aspect in trading, if you can develop a system with high winning percentage with a not so good RR then it would be much better if you can improve the RR to such system, RR and good trading strategy must work side by side in order for a trading system to succeed, RR is always a factor in trading you just have to find a way to improve your system, so it is wrong to say that its "meaningless".
thats why we used "meaningless" without probability of wins /loss trades. and RR alone is really 100% meaningless, because you cant see anything from it without more informations.
  • #657
  • Edited Feb 3, 2017 12:40pm Feb 2, 2017 11:07pm | Edited Feb 3, 2017 12:40pm
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} In itself the risk reward ratio is meaningless are you kidding?
Oh no, I never joke about money, trust me on this one.

Quoting RondaRousey
.do u have any understanding about probability? tell me what probability do you need to make 1 unit betting 2 units to be in profit?
A 67% winning rate is a break-even rate in that situation (in fact it's slightly profitable), so anything above that rate will be profitable for you.

Quoting RondaRousey
tell me what probability do you need to make 2 units betting 1 unit to be in profit?
A 33% rate is a break even, so anything more than that is good.

Quoting RondaRousey
I am sure you make trades that have no chance of being profitable since risk to reward is meaningless to you.
Listen, even if you "only" risk 1 unit to make 10 units you will blow up your account if your system has no trading edge to begin with (the transaction costs and spread will eat you alive in the long run).

Risk/reward is TOTALLY worthless if you don't know the average winning rate of your system.

You think just because you are "only" risking 1 dollar to earn millions at the Lotto you will end up rich in the long run, because you risk/reward ratio is more than excellent?
Come on.
  • #658
  • Feb 2, 2017 11:13pm Feb 2, 2017 11:13pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
{quote} Oh no, I never joke about money, trust me on this one. {quote} A 68% winning rate is a break-even rate in that situtation (in fact it's slightly profitable), so anything above that rate will be profitable for you. {quote} A 33% rate is a break even, so anything more than that is good. {quote} Listen, even if you "only" risk 1 unit to make 10 units you will blow up your account if your system has no trading edge to begin with (the transaction costs and spread will eat you alive in the long run). Risk/reward is TOTALLY worthless if you don't...
i did allready try to tell him his mistake, but maybe he dont like to be corrected.
  • #659
  • Feb 2, 2017 11:19pm Feb 2, 2017 11:19pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} i did allready try to tell him his mistake, but maybe he dont like to be corrected.
Some traders still have a lot to learn, obviously.

A lot of traders still strongly believe that risking 1 unit to earn 2 will somehow make them rich in the long run, because they are only risking "a little" to earn much more.

Oh please!
  • #660
  • Edited 11:52pm Feb 2, 2017 11:39pm | Edited 11:52pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
{quote} Some traders still have a lot to learn, obviously. A lot of traders still strongly believe that risking 1 unit to earn 2 will somehow make them rich in the long run, because they are only risking "a little" to earn much more. Oh please!
can't wait for your trading diary.
show me how good you are.
show me how much you have learnt about trading
show me that i am wrong
ignore risk and reward
I don't believe you are as good as you try to say you are.

Like I said many times traders like you rather be right than be profitable. A lot of smart people rather be right then be profitable. They go broke. Your trading diary will reflect this so start trading and posting your trades. Give us the link to it.

I risk 1 unit to make not 2 units but 100 units and I do it more frequently then you think.

I would rather be profitable than try to prove how smart i am
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
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