Most traders fail because of no discipline! | Page 32 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Why most 'traders' fail 12 replies

Top Reasons Why Most Beginner Traders Fail 64 replies

The Miracle of Discipline, by Rob Booker 18 replies

Average system + great discipline =great results? 44 replies

Why Traders Lose Their Discipline 2 replies

Attachments: Most traders fail because of no discipline!
Exit Attachments

Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #621
  • Feb 2, 2017 7:08am Feb 2, 2017 7:08am
Quoting srt
{quote} Read his thread & notice position size & do a little math. You'd only wish you had his income. Regarding discipline, I think most systems would be profitable if traded with discipline & proper money management. The "system" is really not that important IMHO.
This assumes that systems exist in a vacuum. that all you have to do is find the right one, exercise discipline and proper money management, and all will be well. If only trading were that easy! There is no such thing as a system as such, there is only the accumulation of knowledge and experience within an individual which then manifests itself into a profitable trading strategy which is entirely personal and cannot simply be borrowed by someone else with the expectation of yielding similar results - it won't.

Back to discipline. Some people are naturally more disciplined than others. People who tend not to find discipline within themselves too much of a challenge tend to be well organized, strategic and objective thinkers. Those whose lives tend to be a bit more chaotic...not knowing how much money they have in the bank, not paying bills until the reminder comes through the post, messy house, dirty car etc, tend to have a far bigger problem finding and maintaining discipline in trading than people whose lives are much more organized. There is a personality that lends itself well to trading, and a personality that doesn't, which doesn't mean that the latter can never become an excellent trader, far from it, but they have to work that much harder on becoming the kind of person they need to be to succeed.

Someone mentioned that ex-military personnel tend to make good traders, and they are absolutely right, they do, because they have had the discipline they need to profit from the markets drummed into them for years, so when they do start trading, there are not too many adjustments to be made in that area, and the systematic, methodical approach to solving problems that they were taught in the military, lend themselves very well to life as a trader.
  • #622
  • Feb 2, 2017 7:13am Feb 2, 2017 7:13am
Quoting cat
{quote}Someone mentioned that ex-military personnel tend to make good traders, and they are absolutely right, they do, because they have had the discipline they need to profit from the markets drummed into them for years, so when they do start trading, there are not too many adjustments to be made in that area, and the systematic, methodical approach to solving problems that they were taught in the military, lend themselves very well to life as a trader.
Also Body builders and ex-pro sports players. In the old Chicago pits there were many of both, especially the sports guys.

Probably not a bunch of more disciplined people on the planet than body builders.

Both know and understand the importance of strong discipline and following a plan.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #623
  • Feb 2, 2017 7:15am Feb 2, 2017 7:15am
Quoting Calculus
{quote} Also Body builders and ex-pro sports players. In the old Chicago pits there were many of both, especially the sports guys. Probably not a bunch of more disciplined people on the planet than body builders. Both know and understand the importance of strong discipline and following a plan.
  • #624
  • Edited 8:03am Feb 2, 2017 7:51am | Edited 8:03am
Quoting cat
{quote}
you have many people with other hobbies, who are good at trading. good poker , chess and at maximum backgammon players have offcourse a very good starting point.
backgammon and poker is often exactly like trading, its 2 oft the best games you can play to improve trading. and you learn more in this like in any other job, mentioned above , you have done before, to are ready for trading.
  • #625
  • Feb 2, 2017 8:57am Feb 2, 2017 8:57am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} you have many people with other hobbies, who are good at trading. good poker , chess and at maximum backgammon players have offcourse a very good starting point. backgammon and poker is often exactly like trading, its 2 oft the best games you can play to improve trading. and you learn more in this like in any other job, mentioned above , you have done before, to are ready for trading.
I actually did play poker to practice discipline and tilt control
and watching world class player play is a good example of how one can be
patient and aggressive at the right time
also how they can be very coldly fold their good hand and not even twitch when winning big money
I'd love to have that skill of not giving a damn
In the end its just a stupid numbers game
  • #626
  • Edited 10:39am Feb 2, 2017 10:29am | Edited 10:39am
Quoting danzka
{quote} I actually did play poker to practice discipline and tilt control and watching world class player play is a good example of how one can be patient and aggressive at the right time also how they can be very coldly fold their good hand and not even twitch when winning big money I'd love to have that skill of not giving a damn
yes, without torney (here you need to play poker very risky like trading in championship where losing money is unimportant and only some best win all) poker is not bad to practice some basics. i like backgammon more, because less boring, but this is up to the person. the money you can win is about the same in both and can go in crazy levels in 1 round.
  • #627
  • Feb 2, 2017 10:45am Feb 2, 2017 10:45am
I completely agree on playing poker makes you a far better trader. more than bringing discipline to your trading habit it helps you about MM part of forex. it's almost impossible for a professional poker player to lose his/her account because of the violation of MM. Give an account to a poker player who doesn't know anything about market. It takes the possible maximum time to face margin call. I played online poker for several years, 2 years professionally and most of which playing 5 to 7 tables at the same time, and it solved almost all my psychological problems as well as MM. I would lose a lot of hands as well as tens of buy-ins and win a lot of others but in the end the account would become positive every day or week or month. Another concept that you perceive entirely during playing poker is winning/losing streak or more specifically drawdown. This concept is really hard to overcome in poker. It's far harder in playing poker than trading because you play hundreds of hands during a day and you see losing/winning streak over and over in just one day and you get vaccinated against it.
  • #628
  • Feb 2, 2017 11:02am Feb 2, 2017 11:02am
Quoting daivid40
I completely agree on playing poker makes you a far better trader. more than bringing discipline to your trading habit it helps you about MM part of forex. it's almost impossible for a professional poker player to lose his/her account because of the violation of MM. Give an account to a poker player who doesn't know anything about market. It takes the possible maximum time to face margin call. I played online poker for several years, 2 years professionally and most of which playing 5 to 7 tables at the same time, and it solved almost all my psychological...
i found poker much more easy, because easy to learn, very small rules (at least so extrem simple playing styles like texas Hold em).
you cant have events like gaps, flash crash (ok maybe someone coming and steal your money ;-) ) and broker busting (ok maybe someone coming and steal your money ;-) ) . at least you dont need to pay more in the account like your balance was before after big events.
the risk of cheating players with fakes cards, dealers,... is like cheating broker.
the most difficult in trading is you need to create a unique system that works. in poker, you will win even longterm with correct money management and a more conservative playing style, even if you dont know so much about the game and dont have to good oppenents. in forex you cant have this chances that often you only play against fishes.
  • #629
  • Feb 2, 2017 11:42am Feb 2, 2017 11:42am
Trading is only risk reward nothing...els
So poker play is v good for being disciplined...
Trade fearless not careless...
Syed Mohsin Ali Profit This Month: -882
  • #630
  • Feb 2, 2017 1:19pm Feb 2, 2017 1:19pm
This thread has failed because of no discipline.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #631
  • Feb 2, 2017 4:09pm Feb 2, 2017 4:09pm
Quoting cat
Yes, discipline and patience are extremely important in trading........
FWIW, virtually everything you've said in this post mirrors my own thoughts and experiences.

Quoting srt
Regarding discipline, I think most systems would be profitable if traded with discipline & proper money management. The "system" is really not that important IMHO.
EAs nail down MM and trade with perfect discipline. If "system" was unimportant, then most retail EAs would be profitable.
  • #632
  • Edited 4:29pm Feb 2, 2017 4:18pm | Edited 4:29pm
Quoting Shabs19
This thread has failed because of no discipline.
lol. A thread about discipline with undisciplined replies.

Gamers make good traders. People who are good at playing chess, bridge, poker, blackjack. Trading is the hardest and most lucrative game you can play. There are many ways to win but they are very hard to find. You must outplay, outwit, outlast all others.

Most people who trade rather be right and prove to everyone else they are right about something than make money. It's about risk v reward. The reward must be worth the risk otherwise do not take the trade.
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
  • #633
  • Feb 2, 2017 4:21pm Feb 2, 2017 4:21pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} FWIW, virtually everything you've said in this post mirrors my own thoughts and experiences. {quote} EAs nail down MM and trade with perfect discipline. If "system" was unimportant, then most retail EAs would be profitable.
hanover, you are still lecturing in the FFIA.

Attached Image
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #634
  • Feb 2, 2017 4:35pm Feb 2, 2017 4:35pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} If "system" was unimportant, then most retail EAs would be profitable.
thats so true, offcourse a system is much much much more important then a traders mind, money management, experience, emotions,......
only luck is maybe sometimes more important in some points in extrem unexpexted news, flash crashs, broker crashs,...... what you cant do smaller with experience but cant avoid.

there are so many points neccessary, many people are needed to trade on the opposite opinion by time of trade open and closing (so many think exactly the opposite way about the future of the trade), to have enough volume in the market. (not so important in first years, but later, when volume is increasing more and more...)
  • #635
  • Feb 2, 2017 5:04pm Feb 2, 2017 5:04pm
Quoting techboy46
Whether you agree or not, but to me a trader cannot succeed in this business if he cannot implement discipline in his trading all the time, market is so brutal that it can ripped your account apart if you ignore discipline for just one time, I know for a fact that being discipline all the time in trading is very hard to achieve considering the fact that market is volatile and easily affect traders psychological stability that can prompt most traders to divert or do discretionary trading once in a while that most of the time can damage their account....
Not just forex, it's a principle we should develop for all areas of life. We need it for us not to over do thing and behave rashly, especially here we can easily loose money.
  • #636
  • Feb 2, 2017 5:11pm Feb 2, 2017 5:11pm
Quoting baile
{quote} Not just forex, it's a principle we should develop for all areas of life. We need it for us not to over do thing and behave rashly, especially here we can easily loose money.
discipline can get to boost you results. in some games like poker it even more important. but in trading ( more special forex) you need to develeop a system, thats not so easy like learning poker for example. that will cost a lot of time to create, fair backtest, create the zones, and improve. and some systems dont hold longer time and need recreated in 5 years or their ground basic logic has changed in market because of many reasons.
  • #637
  • Feb 2, 2017 5:26pm Feb 2, 2017 5:26pm
Luck

http://nautil.us/issue/44/luck/how-to-be-lucky
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #638
  • Feb 2, 2017 5:45pm Feb 2, 2017 5:45pm
Quoting RondaRousey
The reward must be worth the risk otherwise do not take the trade.
Not necessarily, you can risk 2 units to make 1 unit and still make a killing in the long run, if your winning rate is high enough.

On the other hand you could blow up your account even if you always risk 1 unit to earn 2 units.

In itself the risk reward ratio is meaningless.
  • #639
  • Edited 6:57pm Feb 2, 2017 6:43pm | Edited 6:57pm
Quoting baile
{quote} Not just forex, it's a principle we should develop for all areas of life. We need it for us not to over do thing and behave rashly, especially here we can easily loose money.
I agree but just to expound further, discipline can be selective in real life, because there are things in life that we can be indiscipline of and wont cause harm or direct damage, for example I can skip my daily jog whenever I want to or I just run 1 mile instead of 3 miles, so their is no fixed rule in as far as discipline is concern in real life and this is the same attitude that most traders bring in their trading and it cause a lot of damage(financially) because trading is a totally different world(most traders does not acknowledge it) and there are only two things a trader must do in order to survive in such world and these are good trading methodology (may requires years to develop) and consistent discipline (may also take years to develop). In reality trading is a very hard profession you got to be dead serious in your learning if you want to become one of the elite in this profession.
  • #640
  • Feb 2, 2017 7:08pm Feb 2, 2017 7:08pm
Quoting cat
{quote} This assumes that systems exist in a vacuum. that all you have to do is find the right one, exercise discipline and proper money management, and all will be well. If only trading were that easy! There is no such thing as a system as such, there is only the accumulation of knowledge and experience within an individual which then manifests itself into a profitable trading strategy which is entirely personal and cannot simply be borrowed by someone else with the expectation of yielding similar results - it won't. Back to discipline. Some people...
True, the psychological aspect of an individual will play an important part how we progress as a trader, impulsive type of a person will most likely struggles a lot in trading than those people that are naturally calm type personality. Traders has to know their personal traits and be honest to themselves.
0 traders viewing now