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Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #481
  • Jan 30, 2017 9:20pm Jan 30, 2017 9:20pm
Most traders will say that a big part of becoming a good trader is to control emotion. However it is clearly evident from peoples posts that many traders have trouble controlling this.

Sometimes its post where they discuss how "I should have waited" or i should have done this or that.... The other part is how quick to react to other people and how emotional they get when posting.

If someone tells you that you are wrong or how you trade is wrong, why can you not just say "Thanks for the advice" and move on with your day? Why do people insist on getting into arguments that are ultimately un-winnable because each person has their own beliefs and agendas.

If a trade goes against you, do you get angry and revenge trade? Or do you just get over it, learn something and move on to the next one? Id say most people would go with the first answer as their posts seem to reflect this need to be right and get revenge...

If your a great trader, or even a good one then that is good for you. Why do you feel the need to have others agree with you? One thing successful people have is confidence. Always trying to prove yourself and argue until the point someone tells you that you are correct is both narcissistic and lacks any confidence...

Im no guru, nor do i claim to be. And im sure many people will disagree with my post or what i say, but thats fine. My way of thinking works for me and thats the only person i need it to work for.
  • #482
  • Jan 30, 2017 9:29pm Jan 30, 2017 9:29pm
Quoting mrhigurashi
Most traders will say that a big part of becoming a good trader is to control emotion. However it is clearly evident from peoples posts that many traders have trouble controlling this. Sometimes its post where they discuss how "I should have waited" or i should have done this or that.... The other part is how quick to react to other people and how emotional they get when posting. If someone tells you that you are wrong or how you trade is wrong, why can you not just say "Thanks for the advice" and move on with your day? Why do people insist on...
Great post. Agree. Ego drove me to take bad trade wanting to prove something.
Lol ive just been stirrin old mate for a bit thats all
im just so angry at oscillators and how they became accepted. They give no meaning or value to a market. Thats all i think i wanted to say.
Sorry for the ego fuelled coments. best of luck to eveyone ill be back in a few months with real data.
  • #483
  • Jan 30, 2017 10:58pm Jan 30, 2017 10:58pm
Quoting WolGod
{quote} Great post. Agree. Ego drove me to take bad trade wanting to prove something. Lol ive just been stirrin old mate for a bit thats all im just so angry at oscillators and how they became accepted. They give no meaning or value to a market. Thats all i think i wanted to say. Sorry for the ego fuelled coments. best of luck to eveyone ill be back in a few months with real data.
Don't hate the hammer for your sore thumb.
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #484
  • Jan 30, 2017 11:08pm Jan 30, 2017 11:08pm
Quoting WolGod
{quote} Great post. Agree. Ego drove me to take bad trade wanting to prove something. Lol ive just been stirrin old mate for a bit thats all im just so angry at oscillators and how they became accepted. They give no meaning or value to a market. Thats all i think i wanted to say. Sorry for the ego fuelled coments. best of luck to eveyone ill be back in a few months with real data.
Technically speaking oscillators are useful on ranging market not on a trending market, if somebody intend to use oscillators as part of their system they have to consider this characteristic. Otherwise you will blame it why it gives a lot of wrong signal.
  • #485
  • Jan 31, 2017 2:57am Jan 31, 2017 2:57am
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} You have a simple method that gives an edge over the markets? Or are you just quoting someone else?
Yes, I have a simple method. It took me a long time to discover it. The saying about 10,000 hours to mastery is very true for me.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #486
  • Jan 31, 2017 3:02am Jan 31, 2017 3:02am
Honestly, I think most traders fail because they rely too much on other people. There comes a point when one has to stand on his own two feet, and that's the point a lot of people crumble. Life, job, schooling etc etc teaches us lots of things. Having the disciplined mindset to stand alone on one's own two feet isn't one of them it seems.
  • #487
  • Edited 3:36am Jan 31, 2017 3:08am | Edited 3:36am
Quoting mrhigurashi
Most traders will say that a big part of becoming a good trader is to control emotion.
My way of thinking works for me and thats the only person i need it to work for.
Absolutely correct.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #488
  • Jan 31, 2017 3:34am Jan 31, 2017 3:34am
Quoting techboy46
{quote} Technically speaking oscillators are useful on ranging market not on a trending market,
Not necessarily, It depends on how you use them. They can be great tools to spot divergences on trending markets.
Hidden divergence especially, on strong trending markets.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #489
  • Edited 4:07am Jan 31, 2017 3:53am | Edited 4:07am
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
What i say is that there are 3 stages through which i think almost all traders go through

1st. Just getting into this business...thinking its so easy to make lots of money. This way i can be a millionaire just within few weeks or even days.
And this belief gets even more stronger after having first few profitable trades without a loss.

2nd. Beginners luck runs out, now its time to face the reality of the market. And this is when most traders get their mind all messed up. If i don't know anything about the market and i can get this many winning trades, imagine if i learn something about the market i will be able to make lot more money than before and will never have losing trades. So now he is going to learn all the different kinds of systems, indicators, all the analysis that is available to him ....and the list of tools goes on.
To me this is why traders use so many indicators (trying to filter all the bad trades) and jump from system to system because they think there is something that they need to learn and apply so that they can avoid all losing trades, which in fact is not possible. You will have losing trades, what u can do is just limit the damage.

3rd. Most traders will never reach to this stage, they either quit or are stuck in the 2nd.
This is the stage when trader realize that he cant win all the time and his belief about trading has to change so that he can stay positive as long as he is trading and any negativity will drastically affect his equity. So now he is more focused on doing simple things, like following a simple system that gives him an edge, which he may have used in the first stage but left it because of wrong beliefs. More focus on risk management/money management. Taking full responsibility of his actions, what ever the outcome is.
And above all he is totally aware that trading is not about getting rich quick, its a long road with obstacles that he has to strive and struggle to get through.
More focus on the process of trading than on money, money is just a by-product.
And all this should be done consistently without a break. Surely if he can do this for at least 2-3 years he will see positive changes not just in the process of trading (how easy it becomes just the way he thought in the first stage) but also the end result he gets.

Peace...
I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
  • #490
  • Edited 4:10am Jan 31, 2017 3:56am | Edited 4:10am
Quoting techboy46
{quote} Technically speaking oscillators are useful on ranging market not on a trending market, if somebody intend to use oscillators as part of their system they have to consider this characteristic. Otherwise you will blame it why it gives a lot of wrong signal.
Exactly my point.
price goes down, rsi goes down and says oversold 'buy'
but you have no idea WHY or HOW it went down.
lol so if it went down on supply strength the rsi still says BUY so now you are buying into supply and most likely supply trend. This is the whole problem. Oscillators tell you nothing of value. Why use them?

anyway the last ill say and leave you with this
BUY audusd when usdollar turns
SL @ 7534 or 7509
Targets 7610, 7650.
  • #491
  • Jan 31, 2017 4:13am Jan 31, 2017 4:13am
There are large no of traders in the Forex market who do not follow discipline because of their bad strategy implementation or they do not consider all the factors responsible to guide the market situation. Then generally, traders panic during high volatile market situations. The panic causes the disturbance in the implementation of strategy and therefore, results are not satisfactory. It brings in more pressure on the trader and he fails miserably.
  • #492
  • Jan 31, 2017 4:15am Jan 31, 2017 4:15am
Don't you guys think discipline is a bit overrated, when it comes to being a good trader?

Of course, discipline is important. But so is (I just copy some of the answers above from previous posters) selfcontrol of emotion, patience, courage, humility , strong desire to win, confidence... I think we should think holistically because breaking down mental caracteristics raises a few issues.

Another thing about discipline. Do you think good/bad discipline is what will drive success only in trading?

I absolutely don't think so. Whatever the endeavour, if you aren't disciplined, you won't go far. Whether you just workout to improve your physique, you are a PhD student, you write a computer program, you are a consultant, you want to be a good parent... As soon as you have a project, discipline may not be the driver that will get you to success, but it will be the safeguard that will prevent you to f*ck up.

Now let me tell you a story to illustrate my view. I am sure in you can find very similar ones in your personal experience.

There was this girl, Mathilde, we were in the same class at school, from 1st grade to high school. She was a nice girl, but she was ugly and not clever at all. Although she always worked hard and did her best, in the first few years, she passed probably out of pity. Always in the last rank in our class. She kept working, and slow and steady, her rank improved. She passed without needing pity. She went to university to study math, she was still very low in everyones eyes (in France, unlike many countries, a lot of dumb people go to university because there is no selection at entry). A few weeks ago (10 years later), I see she is now a university teacher in maths !!!
  • #493
  • Jan 31, 2017 4:25am Jan 31, 2017 4:25am
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
@AiWoZhongHua... i pray for those university students
NO just kidding.
That just shows that if the desire is strong enough you will do the task no matter how hard it may seem.
Some one once said that " the things that are easy to do now were once hard".
Attached Image
I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
  • #494
  • Jan 31, 2017 4:33am Jan 31, 2017 4:33am
Quoting hak444
@AiWoZhongHua... i pray for those university students ... NO just kidding. That just shows that if the desire is strong enough you will do the task no matter how hard it may seem. Some one once said that " the things that are easy to do now were once hard".
You can work hard for a week without discipline.

But you can't work hard for a year, let alone two decades, without.

So I believe the story also stresses the importance of discipline . I would even go further : without (smart) hard work, discipline is nothing !
  • #495
  • Jan 31, 2017 4:46am Jan 31, 2017 4:46am
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
Quoting AiWoZhongHua
Don't you guys think discipline is a bit overrated, when it comes to being a good trader?
So I believe the story also stresses the importance of discipline

Exactly... Discipline.
But i used the work "desire". If the desire is there with no conflicts whats stopping us from achieving our goals?
Referring back to your example, that girl even though not very bright but may be the desire was so strong that she achieved her goal (if that was her goal).

You have to love what your doing, only then you can feel that burning desire to do better...
I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
  • #496
  • Jan 31, 2017 4:57am Jan 31, 2017 4:57am
Without a good trading strategy, or a natural ability, no amount of desire or discipline will make you succeed.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #497
  • Jan 31, 2017 4:58am Jan 31, 2017 4:58am
Quoting hak444
{quote} So I believe the story also stresses the importance of discipline Exactly... Discipline.
Whatever the endeavour, if you aren't disciplined, you won't go far.What I mean is that discipline is not a particular feature in trading. Whatever your project, you need it.


Quoting hak444
{quote} But i used the work "desire". If the desire is there with no conflicts whats stopping us from achieving our goals?
Referring back to your example, that girl even though not very bright but may be the desire was so strong that she achieved her goal (if that was her goal). You have to love what your doing, only then you can feel that burning desire to do better...
I couldn't agree more. but I'm affraid in trading, many of us don't actually love the process of trading but the thrill it provides. I am probably among them, since there was this guy who said "if trading is not boring, then you're doing it wrong".
  • #498
  • Jan 31, 2017 5:18am Jan 31, 2017 5:18am
Quoting Shabs19
Without a good trading strategy, or a natural ability, no amount of desire or discipline will make you succeed.
Even if one has a natural ability it still takes years of study and practice to become successful and consistently profitable in this business.
  • #499
  • Edited 5:31am Jan 31, 2017 5:19am | Edited 5:31am
Quoting AiWoZhongHua
{quote} Whatever the endeavour, if you aren't disciplined, you won't go far.What I mean is that discipline is not a particular feature in trading. Whatever your project, you need it. {quote} I couldn't agree more. but I'm affraid in trading, many of us don't actually love the process of trading but the thrill it provides. I am probably among them, since there was this guy who said "if trading is not boring, then you're doing it wrong".
Once you become a professional trader, trading will be boring, a trader mentor once said get to boredom as much as possible if you want to become a successful trader. Professional traders spent most of the time waiting the right entry and not getting excited when to enter the trade. Experience will somehow teach a trader how important discipline is in trading.
  • #500
  • Jan 31, 2017 5:32am Jan 31, 2017 5:32am
The 9 Stages of a Forex Traders Development
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/8...02f41e476.webp
Stage 1 – Intrigued by Forex

1.1 We accumulate information, we learn - buying books, buy the Best Forex Course we can find, maybe going to seminars and researching what really works in trading.
1.2 We begin to trade with our ‘new’ found knowledge.
1.3 We make profits only to give it back very quickly and then realize we may need more knowledge or information.


Stage 2 – Back to school

2.1 We accumulate more information.
2.2 We switch the currency pair or strategy we are currently following and trading.
2.3 We go back into the market and trade with our better Forex trading system. This time it will work.
2.4 We lose even more money and begin to lose of confidence that we can even be traders. The reality of losing money sets in.


Stage 3 - Discouragement

3.1 We start to listen to other traders and what works for them.
3.2 We go back into the market and continue to lose more money.
3.3 We completely switch our style and method.


Stage 4 - Optimism

4.1 We search for more information and resources online.
4.2 We go back into the market and start to see a little progress.
4.3 We get ‘over-confident’ in a single trade and put on a big position believing it is a sure thing and the market quickly takes our money.
4.4 We start to understand that trading successfully is going to take more time and more knowledge than we ever anticipated.


MOST PEOPLE WILL GIVE UP AT THIS POINT, AS THEY REALIZE WORK IS INVOLVED.


Stage 5 – Limbo “it’s easy to get stuck here for some time”

5.1 We get serious and start concentrating on learning a ‘real’ methodology & Forex strategies that work.
5.2 We trade our methodology with some success, but realize that something is missing.
5.3 We begin to understand the need for having rules to apply our methodology.
5.4 We take a sabbatical from trading to develop and research our trading rules.
5.5 We start trading again, this time with rules and find some success, but over all we still hesitate when we execute.
5.6 We add, subtract and modify rules as we see a need to be more proficient with our rules.
5.7 We feel we are very close to crossing that threshold of successful trading.


Stage 6 - Belief

6.1 We start to take responsibility for our trading results as we understand that our success is in us, not the methodology.
6.2 We continue to trade and become more proficient with our methodology and our rules.
6.3 As we trade we still have a tendency to violate our rules and our results are still erratic.
6.4 We know we are close.


Stage 7 - Reward

7.1 We go back and research our rules.
7.2 We build the confidence in our rules and go back into the market and trade.
7.3 Our trading results are getting better, but we are still hesitating in executing our rules.
7.4 We now see the importance of following our rules as we see the results of our trades when we don’t follow the rules.


Stage 8 - Realization

8.1 We begin to see that our lack of success is within us (a lack of discipline in following the rules because of some kind of fear) and we begin to work on knowing ourselves better.
8.2 We continue to trade and the market teaches us more and more about ourselves.
8.3 We master our methodology and our trading rules.
8.4 We begin to consistently make money.
8.5 We get a little over-confident and the market humbles us.
8.6 We continue to learn our lessons.


Stage 9 - Victory

9.1 We learn smaller positions lower the volume of our emotions so we trade smaller and this surprisingly makes us better with our discipline.
9.2 We learn that risk management is one of the biggest keys to winning as a trader.
9.3 We stop thinking and allow our rules to trade for us (trading becomes boring, but successful) and our trading account continues to grow as we increase our position size only as our account grows.
9.4 We are making more money than we ever dreamed possible.


Original Article Author: Stephen Burns “40 steps in the Traders Journey “, July 2012


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