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Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #361
  • Jan 27, 2017 4:21pm Jan 27, 2017 4:21pm
Quoting techboy46
{quote} In general it maybe true, it is human nature to hate loses, we have the tendency to behave differently every time we make losing trades that is why being discipline all the time really a hard task to achieve for most traders and it will take years for a few traders to master discipline, a trader can study voluminous books and data about the market, have years of experience but without discipline its nothing, but its one aspect in this business for us to be successful,so its either do it or give up thing. Trading is a different world!
Sup man.
  • #362
  • Jan 28, 2017 3:24am Jan 28, 2017 3:24am
This is an off topic, but I know that there are members reading this thread that can easily re-code this simple indicator, any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I hope somebody can help me modify this simple candle body size indicator - its current function is to display the candle body size to all candle closed, what I need in addition is to display also the wick size in the direction of the move and perhaps display only on the last 5 candle close not to all candles on the chart.
Thanks in advance

Here is the code:

#property indicator_chart_window
extern int font_size = 10;
extern color ColorBull = DodgerBlue;
extern color ColorBeer = Red;
extern string font_name = "Arial";
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
int start()
{
double k=(WindowPriceMax()-WindowPriceMin())/20;
for(int i=WindowFirstVisibleBar(); i>=0; i--)
{
double rs = (NormalizeDouble(Open[i],Digits)-NormalizeDouble(Close[i],Digits))/Point;
if (rs<0) drawtext(i, High[i]+k, DoubleToStr(rs*(-1),0), ColorBull);
if (rs>0) drawtext(i, Low[i]-Point, DoubleToStr(rs,0), ColorBeer);
}
}
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
int deinit()
{
ObjectsDeleteAll(0,OBJ_TEXT);
return(0);
}
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+
int drawtext(int n, double Y1, string l,color c)
{
string Name=TimeToStr(Time[n],TIME_DATE|TIME_MINUTES);
ObjectDelete (Name);
ObjectCreate (Name, OBJ_TEXT,0,Time[n],Y1,0,0,0,0);
ObjectSetText(Name, l,font_size,font_name);
ObjectSet (Name, OBJPROP_COLOR, c);
}
//+------------------------------------------------------------------+

Attached File
http://cdn.assets.forexfactory.net/i...attach/mq4.gif candle-body-size.mq4 1 KB | 0 downloads
  • #363
  • Jan 28, 2017 6:51am Jan 28, 2017 6:51am
Quoting techboy46
{quote} In general it maybe true, it is human nature to hate loses, we have the tendency to behave differently every time we make losing trades that is why being discipline all the time really a hard task to achieve for most traders and it will take years for a few traders to master discipline, a trader can study voluminous books and data about the market, have years of experience but without discipline its nothing, but its one aspect in this business for us to be successful,so its either do it or give up thing. Trading is a different world!
I agree completly, it took me a couple of years to develop somekind of " discipline " and to be honest, after a hard loss...sometimes I get the chasing mentality
  • #364
  • Jan 28, 2017 10:47am Jan 28, 2017 10:47am
Quoting techboy46
This is an off topic, but I know that there are members reading this thread that can easily re-code this simple indicator, any help will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance! I hope somebody can help me modify this simple candle body size indicator - its current function is to display the candle body size to all candle closed, what I need in addition is to display also the wick size in the direction of the move and perhaps display only on the last 5 candle close not to all candles on the chart. Thanks in advance
You are welcome. Is it ok ?
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 Candle_Body.ex4   8 KB | 203 downloads
File Type: mq4 Candle_Body.mq4   2 KB | 236 downloads
  • #365
  • Jan 29, 2017 9:22am Jan 29, 2017 9:22am
Majority of traders are not disciplined in their approach, else they would not be failing. These failed traders simply hate to hear the word Discipline! As Jack Schwager points out in his book, 'The New Market Wizards', "Discipline was probably the most frequent word used by the exceptional traders that I interviewed. Often it was mentioned in an almost apologetic tone: 'I know you've heard this a million times before, but believe me, it's really important'."

Discipline allows you to more effectively plan your work (trades) and work (trade) your plan. Discipline – “Habit of Obedience” – yes the keyword being habit, i.e. have a Trading Plan and make a habit of following it. The golden rule should be No Signal – No Trade.
Goal of a successful trader is to make the best trades. Money is secondary
  • #366
  • Jan 29, 2017 9:39am Jan 29, 2017 9:39am
Quoting Forexpinbar
Majority of traders are not disciplined in their approach, else they would not be failing. These failed traders simply hate to hear the word Discipline! As Jack Schwager points out in his book, 'The New Market Wizards', "Discipline was probably the most frequent word used by the exceptional traders that I interviewed. Often it was mentioned in an almost apologetic tone: 'I know you've heard this a million times before, but believe me, it's really important'." Discipline allows you to more effectively plan your work (trades) and work (trade) your...

Or as they like to refer to themselves, "discretionary traders".
  • #367
  • Jan 29, 2017 9:50am Jan 29, 2017 9:50am
Anyone else notice the absence of posts from commercial members here?
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #368
  • Jan 29, 2017 10:47am Jan 29, 2017 10:47am
Quoting techboy46
Whether you agree or not, but to me a trader cannot succeed in this business if he cannot implement discipline in his trading all the time, market is so brutal that it can ripped your account apart if you ignore discipline for just one time, I know for a fact that being discipline all the time in trading is very hard to achieve considering the fact that market is volatile and easily affect traders psychological stability that can prompt most traders to divert or do discretionary trading once in a while that most of the time can damage their account....
Most traders fail because they watch charts and FF too much,jumping from one HG to another and in the end of the day they don't have ANY confidence in what they are doing.

Quoting TooSlow
Anyone else notice the absence of posts from commercial members here?
Spot on
  • #369
  • Jan 29, 2017 11:58am Jan 29, 2017 11:58am
A question for those traders who lost, and attribute their loss to lack of discipline........

How do you know that your method/strategy/plan itself is profitable (if traded with perfect discipline)?
(For example, did you keep a journal comparing 'actual results' alongside 'results if I had exactly followed my rules'?)
_____________________

Quoting tomorton
Or as they like to refer to themselves, "discretionary traders".
Any method/strategy/plan, that is not mechanical enough to be programmed as an EA, has at least one discretionary component.

Every EA trades with perfect discipline.
  • #370
  • Jan 29, 2017 1:53pm Jan 29, 2017 1:53pm
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
@hanover...Sir since u got a lot more experience and been here for a long time... can u kindly clarify something?? When u guys talk about discretionary trading, what is actually meant by that? What i am guessing is that there can be 2 possibilities

1. using unlimited number of variables to define an edge (technical, fundamental, signals, broker's tips, friends opinion etc)....
this type surely will end up in a disaster

2. using limited number of variables but being subjective or intuitive (but not compromising the defined risk for each trade)

And to just briefly explain the 2nd type, what i mean is that even though the variables that a trader uses to define an edge is present right now in the market but he still gona analyze or judge.

Is that what you mean???
Will really appreciate your reply

Peace
I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
  • #371
  • Jan 29, 2017 3:28pm Jan 29, 2017 3:28pm
Quoting hak444
can u kindly clarify something?? When u guys talk about discretionary trading, what is actually meant by that? What i am guessing is that there can be 2 possibilities....... Is that what you mean???
A challenging question! I expect that every trader has a different idea as to where the boundary between 'rules' and 'discretion' exists. I can only give you my own interpretation, which I expect has been influenced significantly by my background as a programmer.

For me, a mechanical system is one that consists entirely of unambiguous rules. If a hundred traders were to trade such a system with perfect discipline, then all of them would make exactly the same entries, exits and MM (apart from factors outside their control, e.g. vagaries in br0ker price data, slippage, etc). Any departure into ambiguity introduces an element of discretion.

For example, let's say my (simple) system is to buy on the close of the candle where an EMA(10) crosses above an EMA(20) on the H1 chart, and to sell when it crosses below; both with a SL of 20 pips and a TP of 40 pips; and to risk 1% equity per trade. Trades are also closed if an opposite signal occurs before the SL or TP gets hit. In my view, that is unambiguous, and can be programmed as an EA: therefore it is mechanical.

Now suppose the trader adds: "I don't open new trades within an hour before high-impact news". That's discretionary, because as a programmer, I would need to know which news events are "high impact". But if the trader defines exactly which events, then the ambiguity is resolved: it becomes a mechanical system once again.

Here's another example: buy on the third bounce off an upward sloping trendline. I see that as being highly discretionary, because (1) trendlines can be constructed in potentially infinite number of ways; (2) how near to the trendline is 'near enough'; and (3) the nature of a 'bounce' (how far? how quickly?) has not been defined. I would need to have a mathematical definitions of all these items before I could begin to code it. Same rationale applies to 'valid' support/resistance, or candle or chart patterns. What one trader defines as a valid pinbar, or a swing low, might not be viewed as a valid pinbar (outer wick too short, for example) or a swing low (not prominent enough) by another trader. And so on. If a hundred traders were to trade these types of system, you would get different interpretations, and different entries.

[I used to code EAs for a lot of traders. I found that it typically takes an exchange of 10-20 e-mails before even the most "simple" (as believed by the trader) EA is coded to include all of his rules, to meet his requirement to his satisfaction. People tend to forget rules like excluding entries at certain times of the day, or if the spread is too wide; closing trades before the weekend; maximum number of simultaneous trades open; highest allowable drawdown; etc etc. Then it takes several days, even weeks of testing. The trader alleges that the EA missed trades that it should have taken and/or entered trades that it shouldn't have, or got stopped out when it shouldn't, etc etc. All of this can be very difficult to troubleshoot, because it's impossible to exactly reproduce the past conditions -- including slippage -- that occurred. Anyway, as a consequence of this, I no longer write EAs for other traders.]

My own trading also involves a significant amount of FA. All FA is subject to interpretation and therefore extremely discretionary. How to interpret Yellen's comments as being hawkish or dovish, for example, to what extent their effect has already been 'priced in', or to what extent there will be any 'follow through' following the initial spike. Hence I trade in a semi-automated fashion, as I described here. I'm continually refining my discretionary input as my knowledge and experience grows. I don't see that as shopping from system to system; IMHO that's one way FA differs from TA.
  • #372
  • Jan 29, 2017 3:36pm Jan 29, 2017 3:36pm
Quoting hanover
A question for those traders who lost, and attribute their loss to lack of discipline........ How do you know that your method/strategy/plan itself is profitable (if traded with perfect discipline)?
Excellent question, you obviously know your stuff !!!
  • #373
  • Jan 29, 2017 4:21pm Jan 29, 2017 4:21pm
Well, I for one can say that I have checked my trades against actual trades. It took me a while to check to be honest, simply because I felt I all along knew what the problem was. But considering I scalp,thus make several trades each day, I did eventually a proper check and follow up on it, just to make sure it wasnt something I had overlooked. But, it wasnt, my trading as such is ok....ok not really since Ive lost money.. But, it was as long as I kept my stops and rules about position. But to this day I still struggle. I can make 100 trades in a day keeping discipline and stops, and then I somehow veer away and go all in when it comes to position size, or not obey stops. Ive now started working on discipline in my daily life, making small achievable "goals". My aim is of course to trasfer this to my trading....
  • #374
  • Jan 29, 2017 4:22pm Jan 29, 2017 4:22pm
Quoting hanover
A question for those traders who lost, and attribute their loss to lack of discipline........ How do you know that your method/strategy/plan itself is profitable (if traded with perfect discipline)? (For example, did you keep a journal comparing 'actual results' alongside 'results if I had exactly followed my rules'?) _____________________ {quote} Any method/strategy/plan, that is not mechanical enough to be programmed as an EA, has at least one discretionary component. Every EA trades with perfect discipline.

I won't say the exact percentage because first, no one would believe it and second, it might raise a lot of questions and argument that I neither have time nor am interested in engaging but in a nut shell, I did something like that about 2 years ago and for 100 trades and the results were different in the following categories:


1- I did the first 50 trades without discipline and didn't follow my rules completely and sometimes entered a position where I shouldn't for example it was late and it didn't give me the RR of my strategy etc. the win rate was X% and close to BE in + side.


2- I tried to be as disciplined as possible and follow my rules.it gave me Y% win rate which was far better than X%.


3-when I made a mistake in number 2 and I didn't follow one or two etc. of the rules of the strategy I came back and saw whether I had won or lost the trade if I had followed the rules. The win rate shifted to Z%.


The result was: Z>Y>X


Needless to say number one was the easiest to perform and the least profitable.(as I said close to BE)


When I started the journal I wanted to keep doing that for at least 500 trades but for million reasons I didn't do that. Of course I had tested the strategy for a few years, both back test and forward test, but I hadn't tested from this perspective by then. That's why I wrote in my first post in this thread that a strategy must include two parts. 1-The strategy itself in terms of technical, fundamental etc. and 2- trader. There is no guarantee that if a strategy has an edge it is profitable in the hands of any traders unless it's completely mechanical which I don't know if there is any.

  • #375
  • Jan 29, 2017 4:44pm Jan 29, 2017 4:44pm
It takes more than just discipline successful traders do the work of understanding their own psychological weaknesses which are a result of past experiences and upbringing , you have to become your own psychologist. The first thing that has to be understood and needs to go is the 'ego' most cant get past this stage...

Garbage in garbage out.....
Never said I was Batman,all I'm saying is you'll never see us together.
  • #376
  • Jan 29, 2017 5:03pm Jan 29, 2017 5:03pm
Quoting Forexpinbar
Majority of traders are not disciplined in their approach, else they would not be failing. These failed traders simply hate to hear the word Discipline! As Jack Schwager points out in his book, 'The New Market Wizards', "Discipline was probably the most frequent word used by the exceptional traders that I interviewed. Often it was mentioned in an almost apologetic tone: 'I know you've heard this a million times before, but believe me, it's really important'." Discipline allows you to more effectively plan your work (trades) and work (trade) your...
Absolutely true, just to add, discipline is not just really important in trading it is a MUST, else you will fail, good methodology and discipline must work hand in hand all the time.
  • #377
  • Jan 29, 2017 5:32pm Jan 29, 2017 5:32pm
Stochastics. Oscilators.
price goes up - these things go up too after it.
if only you could trade oscilators youd make millions.
how many losses do people have to take to realize they are horseshit?
Price went up you want to know why and how.
stochastics tell you how fast. This information gives you no value at all.
anyone want to stand by stochastics?
  • #378
  • Jan 29, 2017 5:41pm Jan 29, 2017 5:41pm
Quoting WolGod
Stochastics. Oscilators. price goes up - these things go up too after it. if only you could trade oscilators youd make millions. how many losses do people have to take to realize they are horseshit? Price went up you want to know why and how. stochastics tell you how fast. This information gives you no value at all. anyone want to stand by stochastics?
As a matter of opinion stochs and other known technical indicators are all lagging in nature, price has gone up or down before this indicators react and it is even worst in the smaller time frames, but I will not say that they are totally useless, because I am sure there are traders that maybe comfortable in using this stuff but as far as I am concern this indicators does not fit much to my trading style.
  • #379
  • Jan 29, 2017 5:47pm Jan 29, 2017 5:47pm
Quoting headfake
It takes more than just discipline successful traders do the work of understanding their own psychological weaknesses which are a result of past experiences and upbringing , you have to become your own psychologist. The first thing that has to be understood and needs to go is the 'ego' most cant get past this stage... Garbage in garbage out.....
I agree! I believ the hardest part for most traders is the emotional discipline (still strugle with this one sometimes)
  • #380
  • Jan 29, 2017 5:59pm Jan 29, 2017 5:59pm
Quoting Jayeshpatel4
{quote} I agree! I believ the hardest part for most traders is the emotional discipline (still strugle with this one sometimes)
Right, being discipline in trading is something that has to be worked out before doing all these technical stuff, I believe one of the reason why most traders fail because they are not mentally prepared when they come to trading and they focused so much on the technical aspect and put the psychological aspect on the sideline so no matter how hard we tried doing all the technical thing we will always fail because we sabotage our trading somewhere along the way by being not discipline.
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