Most traders fail because of no discipline! | Page 18 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Why most 'traders' fail 12 replies

Top Reasons Why Most Beginner Traders Fail 64 replies

The Miracle of Discipline, by Rob Booker 18 replies

Average system + great discipline =great results? 44 replies

Why Traders Lose Their Discipline 2 replies

Attachments: Most traders fail because of no discipline!
Exit Attachments

Most traders fail because of no discipline!

  • #341
  • Jan 26, 2017 8:54pm Jan 26, 2017 8:54pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
{quote} If you truly want to help use your (future) billions to build and maintain large shelters for the homeless in your home town. Then go to the next town and do the same thing. That alone should keep you busy for years.
In all seriousness thats what I plan on doing.
  • #342
  • Jan 26, 2017 9:09pm Jan 26, 2017 9:09pm
Quoting WolGod
{quote} Youve been at this for 10 years yet still no consostent profit. Im trying to explain why and get shutdown. Trying to help you ffs. But ok keep joining useless dots and losing then winning then losing then winning then losing some more with no idea why.
Just a question and not an attack, please dont take it the wrong way.

What makes you think you have the skill or experience to tell others how to trade profitably? Im just wondering, not attacking. Are you consistently profitable? Do you trade for a living? Have you many years experience trading profitably? Do you have qualifications to give financial or investment advice?
  • #343
  • Jan 26, 2017 9:19pm Jan 26, 2017 9:19pm
Quoting WolGod
{quote} In all seriousness thats what I plan on doing.
Well good for you, glad to hear that.
  • #344
  • Jan 26, 2017 9:31pm Jan 26, 2017 9:31pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
{quote} Well good for you, glad to hear that.
You got 200k? You can be involved.
  • #345
  • Jan 26, 2017 9:56pm Jan 26, 2017 9:56pm
Quoting WolGod
{quote} You got 200k? You can be involved.
Where is your track record?
  • #346
  • Jan 26, 2017 10:25pm Jan 26, 2017 10:25pm
Quoting WolGod
{quote} Youve been at this for 10 years yet still no consostent profit. Im trying to explain why and get shutdown. Trying to help you ffs. But ok keep joining useless dots and losing then winning then losing then winning then losing some more with no idea why.

So I don't make profit constantly after 10 years and you can make a lot of money after maybe one year!!! Where did you get that? loool How do you know how much money I've gained or lost?!!The funny part is you think market profile or volume profile or supply and demand are something new that you are the person who's discovered them!!!Have you really had a real account??You don't spend money on trend lines or any other method but you do that on MP!!!! You really think there are stupid people giving a person who doesn’t have any record, 100k to trade because he says he can make a million!!! You are at least 10 year late dude. There were days that some people bit more than they could chew and some gullible people thought that might have been true but it was way back. No one will give you a dime with these hilarious words you try to sell. You're so funny man.


By the way, I'm definitely sure if I give you 3 situations to draw the correct trend lines you won't be able to draw the correct and precise trendlines even in one of them. I bet you couldn’t even recognize the difference between the TLs that I showed you with the ones that you know.


You don't need to turn 100k to 1 million. You just show me a real account that you turn a 1000$ into 10000, I will personally give you a 100k account to manage. What did you think about people here???

  • #347
  • Jan 26, 2017 10:56pm Jan 26, 2017 10:56pm
All good guys. Data coming. I will prove all this over the next few months. Good feeing to know money will be thrown at me.

Trandlines? Well thats it ... you could choose many different ones so which ones right? Laughable.
Higher highs and lower lows??? You do realise thats how instos accumulate and hen they will shakeout you out and because you dont believe in volume/delta you eont know when its finished. Why so angry!?! I know it suks youve spent years but let it go. Im right you HAVENT MADE ANY MONEY so why stick with it. A TRENDLINE MEANS NOTHING.
Anyway good news for you ill be back jn a few months and be looking for investors and ill turn whatever miney you had and double it every 2 months.
  • #348
  • Jan 26, 2017 10:59pm Jan 26, 2017 10:59pm
Quoting daivid40
The funny part is you think market profile or volume profile or supply and demand are something new that you are the person who's discovered them!
It's true, the Market Profile concept has been discovered some 20 years ago.

It is indeed a very interesting tool for the traders, especially if you add the volume element.

One of the best book on the subject is Mind Over Markets: Power Trading with Market Generated Information , by James Dalton.
  • #349
  • Jan 26, 2017 11:26pm Jan 26, 2017 11:26pm
Man, you really need to work on your scamming ability... You suck at it.

Before you go and scam your family and friends as you said you would in another post you wrote, id suggest at least some fake data to support your bullshit rhetoric you vomit everywhere.
  • #350
  • Edited Jan 27, 2017 4:44am Jan 26, 2017 11:40pm | Edited Jan 27, 2017 4:44am
Quoting Mr Breakout
Some traders do profit consistently simply by placing momentum trades after the news releases, but let me tell you that they use zero fundamentals analysis, just simple price action, support/resistance levels and/or a couple of simple indicators.
What you're saying might accurately describe some traders, but I can assure you that the gent I mentioned uses 'pure' FA in exactly the way I described. He not only trades around news announcements, but also takes directional positions based on his interpretation of central bank activity and comment, trends in economic data (inflation, employment, growth, etc) and concepts like 'fair value'. I've been a a student of his for the last two years, hence I know exactly how he operates.

I fully understand that there are many commentators who make after-the-event comments like "the dollar strengthened [past tense] yesterday across the board because the Fed announced that interest rate hikes would be necessary". And of course had the dollar weakened, they would have found a plausible reason for that, also.

I used to think the way that you do, but I've since come to learn that FA is a valuable form of analysis, if -- like everything else -- you understand it properly. It was a case of not knowing what I was missing. Check out some of the links that I posted here, as a starting point.
  • #351
  • Jan 27, 2017 2:07am Jan 27, 2017 2:07am
Quoting WolGod
All good guys. Data coming. I will prove all this over the next few months. Good feeing to know money will be thrown at me. Trandlines? Well thats it ... you could choose many different ones so which ones right? Laughable. Higher highs and lower lows??? You do realise thats how instos accumulate and hen they will shakeout you out and because you dont believe in volume/delta you eont know when its finished. Why so angry!?! I know it suks youve spent years but let it go. Im right you HAVENT MADE ANY MONEY so why stick with it. A TRENDLINE MEANS NOTHING....
I get your point, I couldn't trade anymore without footprint charts and volume delta but I still use trendlines (Especially on higher timeframes) and use the volume information for timing/confirmation. Volume indicators are no holy grail either.
"Men Who Can Both Be Right & Sit Tight Are Uncommon" ~ Jesse Livermore
  • #352
  • Jan 27, 2017 2:10am Jan 27, 2017 2:10am
Quoting hanover
{quote} What you're saying might accurately describe some traders, but I can assure you that the gent I mentioned uses 'pure' FA in exactly the way I described. He not only trades around news announcements, but also takes directional positions based on his interpretation of central bank activity and comment, trends in economic data (inflation, employment, growth, etc) and concepts like 'fair value'. I've been a a student of his for the last two years, hence I know exactly how he operates. I fully understand that there are many commentators who make...
Love reading your posts Hanover but please make your font size bigger dude! need magnifying glass to see it
  • #353
  • Edited 3:53am Jan 27, 2017 2:11am | Edited 3:53am
Quoting hanover
{quote} What you're saying might accurately describe some traders, but I can assure you that the gent I mentioned uses 'pure' FA in exactly the way I described. He not only trades around news announcements, but also takes directional positions based on his interpretation of central bank activity and comment, trends in economic data (inflation, employment, growth, etc) and concepts like 'fair value'. I've been a a student of his for the last two years, hence I know exactly how he operates. I fully understand that there are many commentators who make...
Very interesting thread and conversation going on here...

I really appreciate you sharing your experience and information here hanover. More traders need to empty their cups and read/absorb posts like these.

In my experience, trading is a complex exercise in "understanding"... once you truly "understand" whats going on at any given price/time, then you can profit from it... There are many different ways to gain an "understanding", we call these analysis methods, but ultimately its all detective work... detecting and understanding the actions of the mass of traders who move the market.

The more "understanding" you have the better, but because every person is different, the way they absorb and process information can be different. So, this is why one trader can use lagging indicators successfully or Fundamental Analysis and another trader thinks that it is all rubbish.

The only single point which is consistent between all types of successful traders, is (getting back to the topic of the thread) the ability to stick to a (mathematically profitable)plan with rigid discipline, despite what their emotions and outside influences tell them to do.

Just my 2cents, for whatever its worth...

-fighter-
  • #354
  • Jan 27, 2017 5:45am Jan 27, 2017 5:45am
Quoting simond2002
{quote} Love reading your posts Hanover but please make your font size bigger dude! need magnifying glass to see it
Went back and changed the font in my last couple of posts, hope that's better.

Quoting fighterdude
In my experience, trading is a complex exercise in "understanding"... once you truly "understand" whats going on at any given price/time, then you can profit from it... There are many different ways to gain an "understanding", we call these analysis methods, but ultimately its all detective work...
FWIW I agree with this. Gaining an understanding -- the hows and whys of price movement -- is the first step, and then devising strategies that apply that understanding. I think it's a case of achieving a suitable personal balance between having tight enough rules that make a disciplined approach possible, but somehow also being flexible enough to know when and how to apply the rules, and/or adapt them to cope with different market conditions. Some traders prefer a more mechanical approach, while for others it's more discretionary. At the end of the day, I don't think there are necessarily absolute rights or wrongs; all that matters is profit (and managing risk/drawdown). I recall reading Jack Schwager's New Market Wizards, and being impressed by the very different approaches and philosophies used by the millionaires; but what they all had in common was tight risk management, and willingness to embrace losses. In the preface, Schwager himself says something like "there are millions of different ways to trade profitably, but the irony is that they're all difficult to find". Another quote I recall from the book is that "a good trader keeps to his rules, but a great trader knows when to break them". Admittedly it's an old book (1992) and most of the interviewees were trading markets other than forex, but I think it's safe to say that the basic principles still apply.

As a programmer (my career since I left high school in 1979), I started out in forex wanting to write a fully automated profitable EA. Of course the idea of having your computer effortlessly generate a passive, exponentially growing income is the everybody's ultimate dream! To be programmable, the system would need to consist of strict mathematical rules. I attempted this for a few years, experimenting with many different TA-based systems and ideas, but I never quite got any of them to the point of consistent profitability. I'm sure that smarter folk have succeeded where I failed, but my failure sent me down a path where I've gradually become more discretionary in my approach. One thing's for sure: anybody who does have a genuinely profitable EA certainly isn't sharing it publicly, and for obvious reasons. Many retail EAs employ more risky MMs like wide or no SLs; averaging down; martingale variants; etc which suggests to me that it's very difficult to find a robust mathematical edge from mechanical TA alone. Also, abstract visual chart-based patterns, contextual analysis, and subjective judgment (assessing the quality of S/R, for example) can be fiendishly difficult to code, and often a mathematical approximation is the best that can be achieved; profit may be diluted by the approximation process. I've reached the (probably obvious) conclusion that no EA can ever trade with the intelligence of a human.

FWIW, I trade semi-automated nowadays. It's certainly not perfect and I'm always looking for ways to improve. Currently I have two EAs that have a vast number of settings, allowing a wide variety of entry, exit and MM options. One of them looks for user-defined PA at zones represented by rectangles that I've manually dropped onto the chart. That allows me to plot my own carefully selected S/R zones for entries and exits. Then I let the EA do my trading, accurately and unemotionally, while I sleep (I live in NZ, the UK/US sessions run into the night here). For me that allows some balance between (potentially) intelligent contextual entries, and then strict mechanical execution of both entry and exit. (Automated exits ensure that I don't take profit too quickly, one of my personal weaknesses). The second EA implements a trend following system; again, I can have it trade the strongest trending pairs, and vary many of the rules based on my own assessment of the trend strength, PA, S/R etc. Finally, I have a script that allows me to place manual entries, although it allows multi-tiered entries and exits and automates the necessary calculations. A lot of hard work has gone into all of this, and I don't intend to share it publicly....... well, not yet.

I mention this not because I think it's the 'right' approach, but merely as an example of how I've devised a system that allows me to utilise both my own nuanced analysis skills, and then delegate the more mundane trading tasks to the EA, both freeing up some sleep time for myself, and circumventing my personal weaknesses. But ultimately each individual has to find their own path.
  • #355
  • Jan 27, 2017 5:56am Jan 27, 2017 5:56am
Quoting hanover
{quote} Went back and changed the font in my last couple of posts, hope that's better. {quote}
Much better mate, cheers
  • #356
  • Jan 27, 2017 5:58am Jan 27, 2017 5:58am
Quoting hanover
{quote} semi -automated
thats the best way from both worlds.
i prefer this style too.
  • #357
  • Jan 27, 2017 6:49am Jan 27, 2017 6:49am
Quoting hanover
{quote} Went back and changed the font in my last couple of posts, hope that's better. {quote} FWIW I agree with this. Gaining an understanding -- the hows and whys of price movement -- is the first step, and then devising strategies that apply that understanding. I think it's a case of achieving a suitable personal balance between having tight enough rules that make a disciplined approach possible, but somehow also being flexible enough to know when and how to apply the rules, and/or adapt them to cope with different market conditions....
Just noticed you write your from the shire. Hows it over that side of the ditch?
  • #358
  • Jan 27, 2017 7:11am Jan 27, 2017 7:11am
Lets discuss the points you raised a little bit:

The discipline we are talking here is being discipline all the time not now, tomorrow or this month, its literally all the time every move, every actions must be in accordance with the specific rule, that is the discipline that we are talking here, now if one has different interpretation then their is nothing I can do about it. Insufficient discipline is the same with lack of discipline.

Insufficient equity, in general I will agree that under capitalization can bring more psychological pressures to most traders causing to over leverage and over trade, but this is not applicable to all traders, because there are traders that makes money even with smaller equity.

Lack of business/economics/analytical background - Are you saying that you need to be an economic or analytical expert to be a successful trader or maybe you are just referring to traders that dont have the right education right from the start because we all know that majority of traders comes to this market not getting the right preparation and knowledge.

Unrealistic expectations - this part can be associated to lack of knowledge
Recklessness and other negative traits in trading can be associated to psychological unpreparedness of a trader

Peace!
  • #359
  • Jan 27, 2017 3:44pm Jan 27, 2017 3:44pm
Quoting HeyYou
fact is if you make stupid/silly mistakes either you program an EA or give up. There's nothing you can do to "improve" a concept like discipline, how can you improve a concept ? truth is that we just don't like losses so when we lose we HAVE to recover the loss at any cost. it's our nature and you can't help it. CONCLUSION If you think you're "undisciplined" it's all good, you are normal.
In general it maybe true, it is human nature to hate loses, we have the tendency to behave differently every time we make losing trades that is why being discipline all the time really a hard task to achieve for most traders and it will take years for a few traders to master discipline, a trader can study voluminous books and data about the market, have years of experience but without discipline its nothing, but its one aspect in this business for us to be successful,so its either do it or give up thing. Trading is a different world!
  • #360
  • Jan 27, 2017 3:47pm Jan 27, 2017 3:47pm
Quoting ifund
Lets discuss the points you raised a little bit: The discipline we are talking here is being discipline all the time not now, tomorrow or this month, its literally all the time every move, every actions must be in accordance with the specific rule, that is the discipline that we are talking here, now if one has different interpretation then their is nothing I can do about it. Insufficient discipline is the same with lack of discipline. Insufficient equity, in general I will agree that under capitalization can bring more psychological pressures to...
You copy paste my post! take time to write your own opinion about the importance of discipline in trading
0 traders viewing now