DislikedIs there anyone in thread willing and want to help me learn how to trade using the intra day strategy? i am newbieIgnored
Trader Dale - daily trading levels
- #2,908
- Edited 7:57pm Jan 4, 2017 7:44pm | Edited 7:57pm
- | Membership Revoked | Joined Aug 2015 | 1,243 Posts
- #2,909
- Edited 8:02pm Jan 4, 2017 7:49pm | Edited 8:02pm
- | Membership Revoked | Joined Aug 2015 | 1,243 Posts
{quote} Do you know the difference between "belittling" and "stating a fact"? If I wanted to belittle you, I'd say something like "You've got brains of a mustard seed". So, chill, and know that you first have to know where you stand to begin moving forward.
I at the very least know my knowledge of MP is basic/fundamental- and I can even tell you why.
As to your "spam"...it is what it is - SPAM.
The videos are more than spam. If you took the time to watch them instead of assuming, you might agree.
Also both of you have succeeded in proving my point "you don't know anything about MP" - if you did, you wouldn't have said "Volume Profile". This is related to be earlier question "Do you know why MP was created?" Do you even know how VWAP is? How is that even related to MP or even heaven forbid, VP ???
I'm not going to let you have all the fun and ask unanswered questions. What is the difference between VP and MP? We could both ask each other unanswered questions all day, but that provides no value to the thread. I agree the questions you are asking are worth knowing. Instead of having everyone try to search for answers... how about you provide value by sharing your wisdom?
As to learning, I'll tell you who thought me my basic knowledge in MP - James Dalton & Steidlmayer - through their BOOKS.
In this day and age, you could have very easily found those e-books with GOOGLE. If you haven't already - don't even talk about teaching coz you ain't interested in putting in any effort into something as easy as googling it, not to mention read those books.
Ahhh here we are with the assumptions again. I've read plenty of books and I've watched plenty of videos on VP. I've put in plenty of effort. Step down off your high horse and provide some value Mr. Knowitall.
This will be my last reply (YAY! nuisance be gone!) coz I don't see the benefit of posting too much here, but I'll leave you with these:
- If POC is considered fair price by both parties, why does it move up/down?
- If VA is considered where most price stays in, what does it mean if it goes beyond it?
- Why use a composite profile? Is one profile more significant than the other?
- Finally, how do VAs and POCs work together to tell you where price is most likely going to?
- Ok, really finally, don't use other indicators on top of MP.
...
- #2,917
- Jan 4, 2017 10:06pm Jan 4, 2017 10:06pm
- Joined May 2009 | Status: Trader | 1,879 Posts
The Market Profile is not a trading system. It does not give buy, sell, entry, exit, overbought or oversold indicators. The trader makes trading decisions based on an independent evaluation of market price and value information. The Market Profile trader, through study and experience, can learn to identify the market's underlying dynamics and structure (trending versus trading range) and then initiate, manage and exit trades accordingly. This differs from typical technical analysis which usually measures price movement. Mp slide
http://www.cmegroup.com/education/interactive/marketprofile/mp_show_1.pdf
In Mind over Markets, our goal is to teach you how to "read the plays." In more concrete terms, you will learn how to identify the information generated by the market, understand its implications, and act on your knowledge. However, this is not a book about a trading system that works or does not work. The Market Profile is not a black box that dogmatically tells you when to buy and sell commodities. This is a book on learning. This a book on observing and understanding the market.
Mind over markets p.3
Tunnel vision is an easy trap to fall into, especially when learning large amounts of new information. It is not uncommon to hear beginning Market Profile traders comment, "The Profile doesn't work." There is nothing about the Profile that does or does not work. It is only a passive gauge of market-generated information a way to organize the data, much like the musical score. What fails to work is the trader's ability to see the "big picture" objectively and realize that everything is a series of facts surrounded by other circumstances.
Mind over markets P33-34
Because Market Profile* is a tool rather than a buy/sell system, reading Market Profile* data involves grasping principles-not just memorizing rules. Those who make the effort, however, will have a valuable skill. Buy/sell systems lose their effectiveness when markets change. Market Profile data, on the other hand, captures and lets you see the change so that you can adjust accordingly.
CME/CBOT mp manual p4
As noted in the introduction, Market Profile is a decision-support tool-not a trading system. In order to use the Market Profile tools, you have to know what makes them work.
CME/CBOT mp manual p5
It's also important to recognize that your market decisions are always going to require judgment. Market Profile can't change that. Unfortunately, it can't predict the future-but then nothing can. What Market Profile can do is help you to understand the present. And if you understand what's happening now, in the present, you can make better decisions.
CME/CBOT mp manual p5
AT: Whats wrong with back testing trading ideas against historical price data? Doesn't that have some value?
JPS:Well, the markets have changed a lot so you're comparing apples to oranges. First, you don't have a constant. If you're not testing the market, what are you really testing?
AT: The probability of whether a trade idea might be profitable?
JPS: No, you're testing how your tolerance works. Back-tests miss all the ingredients that may have been good.
AT: Such as?
JPS: When you look to the past for references, you're going to be late (making trading decisions) because you don't know a high or low has occurred until its in the past. So you're looking for one scenario and the markets doing something else. Market Profile, however, shows development that you wont see in a back-test; they only show how good your external parameters are and these (variables) dominate the results.
http://www.trading-naked.com/in-step-with-markets.htm
Market Profile often does not give specific entry and exit points. That is probably why the vast majority of traders rely on indicators. It is difficult to back test objectively the Market Profile concepts. Indicators can easily be put into a formula and numbers can be crunched on past data in seconds. But remember that the vast majority of traders lose money. The greatest traders have a market understanding that goes beyond the obvious. Again, there is no edge in what everyone knows. For those who rely on indicators, chat room gurus, and non-market generated information, I wish you good luck in your trading. You WILL need it. For those willing to pursue the difficult path of market understanding, you have a much better chance of creating your own luck, with a much better chance of success.
http://tuckerreport.com/articles/market-profile-a-primer/
Going with the Crowd
In a classic "Candid Camera" TV show, a man waits for an elevator. When it arrives, everyone on it is facing the back of the elevator, so he gets on and faces backwards also. If you blindly follow the majority, you will usually be going the wrong way. As we said before, the majority of market participants do not make money. This is a pretty bold statement, but if you stop and think about how many times the big name analysts have been plain wrong, it doesn't seem so far fetched. Nonetheless, when the big movers on the Street talk, most everybody listens it is much easier to dogmatically rely on an "expert" than to be a rugged individualist who makes his own decisions.
When you rely solely on yourself, you alone take pride in reaping the rewards of success but there is also no one else to blame for defeat. The tendency to be a follower is not an easy thing to realize or admit. Not surprisingly, one of the primary reasons many traders use a technical (mechanical) trading system is to take themselves out of the decision making process.
These are but a few thoughts to keep in the back of your mind as we continue through the Novice stage and discuss more labels and terms. Again, the Market Profile is not a technical or mechanical system, and the discussion to follow should not be memorized for later "regurgitation."
"Mind over markets 18-19
http://www.cmegroup.com/education/interactive/marketprofile/mp_show_1.pdf
In Mind over Markets, our goal is to teach you how to "read the plays." In more concrete terms, you will learn how to identify the information generated by the market, understand its implications, and act on your knowledge. However, this is not a book about a trading system that works or does not work. The Market Profile is not a black box that dogmatically tells you when to buy and sell commodities. This is a book on learning. This a book on observing and understanding the market.
Mind over markets p.3
Tunnel vision is an easy trap to fall into, especially when learning large amounts of new information. It is not uncommon to hear beginning Market Profile traders comment, "The Profile doesn't work." There is nothing about the Profile that does or does not work. It is only a passive gauge of market-generated information a way to organize the data, much like the musical score. What fails to work is the trader's ability to see the "big picture" objectively and realize that everything is a series of facts surrounded by other circumstances.
Mind over markets P33-34
Because Market Profile* is a tool rather than a buy/sell system, reading Market Profile* data involves grasping principles-not just memorizing rules. Those who make the effort, however, will have a valuable skill. Buy/sell systems lose their effectiveness when markets change. Market Profile data, on the other hand, captures and lets you see the change so that you can adjust accordingly.
CME/CBOT mp manual p4
As noted in the introduction, Market Profile is a decision-support tool-not a trading system. In order to use the Market Profile tools, you have to know what makes them work.
CME/CBOT mp manual p5
It's also important to recognize that your market decisions are always going to require judgment. Market Profile can't change that. Unfortunately, it can't predict the future-but then nothing can. What Market Profile can do is help you to understand the present. And if you understand what's happening now, in the present, you can make better decisions.
CME/CBOT mp manual p5
AT: Whats wrong with back testing trading ideas against historical price data? Doesn't that have some value?
JPS:Well, the markets have changed a lot so you're comparing apples to oranges. First, you don't have a constant. If you're not testing the market, what are you really testing?
AT: The probability of whether a trade idea might be profitable?
JPS: No, you're testing how your tolerance works. Back-tests miss all the ingredients that may have been good.
AT: Such as?
JPS: When you look to the past for references, you're going to be late (making trading decisions) because you don't know a high or low has occurred until its in the past. So you're looking for one scenario and the markets doing something else. Market Profile, however, shows development that you wont see in a back-test; they only show how good your external parameters are and these (variables) dominate the results.
http://www.trading-naked.com/in-step-with-markets.htm
Market Profile often does not give specific entry and exit points. That is probably why the vast majority of traders rely on indicators. It is difficult to back test objectively the Market Profile concepts. Indicators can easily be put into a formula and numbers can be crunched on past data in seconds. But remember that the vast majority of traders lose money. The greatest traders have a market understanding that goes beyond the obvious. Again, there is no edge in what everyone knows. For those who rely on indicators, chat room gurus, and non-market generated information, I wish you good luck in your trading. You WILL need it. For those willing to pursue the difficult path of market understanding, you have a much better chance of creating your own luck, with a much better chance of success.
http://tuckerreport.com/articles/market-profile-a-primer/
Going with the Crowd
In a classic "Candid Camera" TV show, a man waits for an elevator. When it arrives, everyone on it is facing the back of the elevator, so he gets on and faces backwards also. If you blindly follow the majority, you will usually be going the wrong way. As we said before, the majority of market participants do not make money. This is a pretty bold statement, but if you stop and think about how many times the big name analysts have been plain wrong, it doesn't seem so far fetched. Nonetheless, when the big movers on the Street talk, most everybody listens it is much easier to dogmatically rely on an "expert" than to be a rugged individualist who makes his own decisions.
When you rely solely on yourself, you alone take pride in reaping the rewards of success but there is also no one else to blame for defeat. The tendency to be a follower is not an easy thing to realize or admit. Not surprisingly, one of the primary reasons many traders use a technical (mechanical) trading system is to take themselves out of the decision making process.
These are but a few thoughts to keep in the back of your mind as we continue through the Novice stage and discuss more labels and terms. Again, the Market Profile is not a technical or mechanical system, and the discussion to follow should not be memorized for later "regurgitation."
"Mind over markets 18-19
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
