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  • #181
  • Jan 4, 2017 6:43am Jan 4, 2017 6:43am
Quoting yonseo
{quote} The burden of proof is on you unless you can prove that you have paid brokers for any money owed to them due to you creating a negative balance.
It seems you have something in common with the broker mentioned in the news story above.
In Europe a person is innocent until proven guilty, in your mind it's the opposite, not sure why. What negative balance? I thought we are talking about a 7.5k$ profit.

I didn't realize there is a problem with the leverage used by profit.erol. What do you mean he had a size too big for his account?
Do you mean the maximum allowed leverage was let's say 1:200 and he abused the system and he used 1:500?
What was the maximum position size allowed by the broker for his account size and how much did he go over that?
  • #182
  • Jan 4, 2017 7:28am Jan 4, 2017 7:28am
stop arguing with the ff employees guys lol
  • #183
  • Jan 4, 2017 7:46am Jan 4, 2017 7:46am
Quoting grrbear
stop arguing with the ff employees guys lol
Thats right. There is a reason why this thread was moved from "broker discussion" to "commercial content"...
  • #184
  • Jan 4, 2017 7:52am Jan 4, 2017 7:52am
Quoting mindspeculat
{quote} It seems you have something in common with the broker mentioned in the news story above. In Europe a person is innocent until proven guilty, in your mind it's the opposite, not sure why. What negative balance? I thought we are talking about a 7.5k$ profit. I didn't realize there is a problem with the leverage used by profit.erol. What do you mean he had a size too big for his account? Do you mean the maximum allowed leverage was let's say 1:200 and he abused the system and he used 1:500? What was the maximum position size allowed by the...
Thanks for reinforcing the notion that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

Which is the very reason why profit.erol is not in a position to complain about pepperstone closing his positions over the weekend, thus accusing pepperstone (or any other random broker in the same situation) guilty of being a scam for doing this.

Why? Because how do we know that he will pay any losses he caused beyond his tiny account size IF he was wrong after the weekend.

Neither him or pepperstone knew the outcome of IT40 until after the fact which was after the weekend.
But the positions were closed before the fact.
  • #185
  • Jan 4, 2017 8:04am Jan 4, 2017 8:04am
Quoting yonseo
{quote} Neither him or pepperstone knew the outcome of IT40 until after the fact which was after the weekend. But the positions were closed before the fact.
If uncertainty of Italian referendum was was a problem, then utilizing your logic, Pepperstone should not allow to open the position in the first place, particularly on Friday before referenum.

Yet, Pepperstone did not have any issue with opening position. Original poster, did it rightfully, within margin requirements. Moreover Pepperstone has all means to contact the client AND ask form more fund or reduce position, if there was any concern about the outcome. Yet they never did. PEPPERSTONE DID NOT FULFILL DUE CARE TO THEIR CUSTOMER.

I am sorry, your argument does not hold valid.

Also I dont agree with some previous risk comments. Position was small, irrelevant and no matter what price gap supposed to be after weekend it would not cause Pepperstone any financial damage, PARTICULARLY THAT IN CASE OF NEGATIVE BALANCE PEPPERSTONE WOULD BE ABLE TO CHASE DEBT AS IT DID BEFORE ON OTHER OCCASION. The only risk was on original poster and it is his business how he manages that, throughout stop, manual close or automatic margin calls.

In other words, Pepperstone used this situation to screw this customer.
  • #186
  • Jan 4, 2017 8:15am Jan 4, 2017 8:15am
Quoting kpclick
{quote} If uncertainty of Italian referendum was was a problem, then utilizing your logic, Pepperstone should not allow to open the position in the first place, particularly on Friday before referenum. Yet, Pepperstone did not have any issue with opening position. Original poster, did it rightfully, within margin requirements. Moreover Pepperstone has all means to contact the client AND ask form more fund or reduce position, if there was any concern about the outcome. Yet they never did. PEPPERSTONE DID NOT FULFILL DUE CARE TO THEIR CUSTOMER. I...

That is clear to me as well ...
  • #187
  • Jan 4, 2017 8:19am Jan 4, 2017 8:19am
But the most appalling thing with Pepperstone is lack of business instinct. Discussion like this survive on internet very long time and in long term it will cost them potentially millions. Instead to settle it well, keep the customer happy and speculating and avoid bad news spreading they prefer safe few dollars dollars today and risking further escalating into courts. And that is really stupid... and why anybody would do any business, small or big, with a stupid company?
  • #188
  • Edited 8:38am Jan 4, 2017 8:24am | Edited 8:38am
Quoting yonseo
{quote} Thanks for reinforcing the notion that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Which is the very reason why profit.erol is not in a position to complain about pepperstone closing his positions over the weekend, thus accusing pepperstone (or any other random broker in the same situation) guilty of being a scam for doing this. Why? Because how do we know that he will pay any losses he caused beyond his tiny account size IF he was wrong after the weekend. Neither him or pepperstone knew the outcome of IT40 until after the fact which was after...
Why you never answer to any question?

Did he use the leverage allowed by the broker at the moment of opening the position or not?
  • #189
  • Jan 4, 2017 8:27am Jan 4, 2017 8:27am
Quoting mindspeculat
{quote} Why you never answer to any question? Did he use the leverage allowed by the broker at the moment of opening the position or not?
Maybe there is no answer because question is stupid? Could he open position beyond allowed leverage? Answer is quite obvious...
  • #190
  • Jan 4, 2017 8:37am Jan 4, 2017 8:37am
Quoting kpclick
{quote} Maybe there is no answer because question is stupid? Could he open position beyond allowed leverage? Answer is quite obvious...
They keep saying that they closed his position because it was "too big". I don't see a clear answer anywhere. Was his position within margin requirements or not?
  • #191
  • Edited 8:55am Jan 4, 2017 8:42am | Edited 8:55am
Quoting mindspeculat
{quote} They keep saying that they closed his position because it was "too big". I don't see a clear answer anywhere. Was his position within margin requirements or not?
Clearly the position was within margin requirements otherwise would not be opened at all in the first place.

Just because they (Pepperstone?) "keep saying that they closed his position because it was too big", it does not mean it was. "Too big position' by what measure? The only measure is the allowed margin. That is what margin is for. If Pepperstone was not happy with maximum margin for that instrument, they could lower it WITHIN TRADING HOURS SO CUSTOMERS COULD NOT OPEN "TOO BIG POSITIONS". But Pepperstone never did it. So any position opened was clearly within margin requirements.

Again, all those are just excuses on Pepperstone side. They had all means to sort this situation and prevent any risk before Italian events. We dont believe that Pepperstone suddenly woke up on Saturday morning and realize that there is actually Italian referendum and it might bring some risk, do we?
  • #192
  • Jan 4, 2017 8:52am Jan 4, 2017 8:52am
Quoting kpclick
{quote} Clearly the position was within margin requirements otherwise would not be opened at all in the first place. Just because they (Pepperstone?) "keep saying that they closed his position because it was too big", it does not mean it was. "Too big position' by what measure? The only measure is the allowed margin. That is what margin is for. If Pepperstone was not happy with maximum margin for that instrument, they could lower it WITHIN TRADING HOURS SO CUSTOMERS COULD NOT OPEN "TOO BIG POSITIONS". But Pepperstone never did it. So any position...
Good. Then it's time for the broker to find a proper excuse and stop talking about irrelevant topics.
  • #193
  • Jan 4, 2017 9:38am Jan 4, 2017 9:38am
Quoting kpclick
{quote} If uncertainty of Italian referendum was was a problem, then utilizing your logic, Pepperstone should not allow to open the position in the first place, particularly on Friday before referenum. Yet, Pepperstone did not have any issue with opening position. Original poster, did it rightfully, within margin requirements. Moreover Pepperstone has all means to contact the client AND ask form more fund or reduce position, if there was any concern about the outcome. Yet they never did. PEPPERSTONE DID NOT FULFILL DUE CARE TO THEIR CUSTOMER. I...
kpclick,

I'm afraid this is a strawman fallacy in utilizing my logic. Here is why.

The OUTCOME due to the uncertainty of italian referendum was AFTER the weekend.
Hence there is a GAP risk which can put the trader on a negative balance if he is wrong.
Even more so when you have an event like the italian referendum.

Do we have a gap risk on Friday if the trader exits his position before the market close? Of course not.
Sure the trader had positions within margin limits due to the high leverage pepperstone offers.
But when a broker offers high leverage during normal market activity then they can easily margin call exit the trader out before the negative balance takes place.

So yes pepperstone didn't have any issues with people opening a position on Friday.
Even if they use max lot size based on the max leverage available this is not an issue either if they close the position before the market close.
But when you have a trader like profit.erol choosing to carry the position over the weekend creating the risk of negative balance due to weekend gap,
then we have a problem.

I am sorry, you just created a strawman.

As for chasing debt, you have tens or hundreds of thousands of clients all over the world. Given that there are significant amount of traders who are willing to gamble away small accounts risking a negative balance, do you honestly think pepperstone would be able to lawfully chase down every client by means of law?
If so then how?

In summary you did nothing to prove that pepperstone did this to screw the customer unless pepperstone didn't close the positions of the traders that chose to hold BUY position over the weekend with a similar lot sizing vs leverage like profit.erol
  • #195
  • Jan 4, 2017 9:48am Jan 4, 2017 9:48am
Quoting yonseo
{quote} kpclick, I'm afraid this is a strawman fallacy in utilizing my logic.
Thanks for calling me strawman. That is very professional and rhetorical approach... right from a secondary school toilet....

Obviously we will not settle here anything, beside pulling arguments. Those who understand old fashioned customer service cannot agree with neo-capitalistic fans. Lets the Ombudsman judge Pepperstone's merits. And lest future readers judge Pepperstone's ability to attract new customers...

In the mean while I have a good reading for you, if you wish to spend some time educating yourself, it might open your eyes: "The Corruption of Capitalism: Why rentiers thrive and work does not pay" by Guy Standing
  • #196
  • Jan 4, 2017 9:59am Jan 4, 2017 9:59am
Quoting kpclick
{quote} Thanks for calling me strawman. That is very professional and rhetorical approach... right from a secondary school toilet.... Obviously we will not settle here anything, beside pulling arguments. Those who understand old fashioned customer service cannot agree with neo-capitalistic fans. Lets the Ombudsman judge Pepperstone's merits. And lest future readers judge Pepperstone's ability to attract new customers... In the mean while I have a good reading for you, if you wish to spend some time educating yourself, it might open your eyes: "The...
Learn to read thank you.

I did not call you a strawman.
I said what you presented was a strawman.

But since you are unable to deal with the points addressed, so be it.

IMO you are not even in a position to suggest others to educate themselves,
especially when you cant even read properly towards my reply.

Otherwise it would simply be "pot calls the kettle black"
  • #197
  • Jan 4, 2017 10:24am Jan 4, 2017 10:24am
Quoting yonseo
{quote} Funny how you say this when even other popular brokers like FXCM and OANDA inevitably has a lot of negative reviews despite having some of the most clients. If your logic holds true then such companies shouldn't be growing. Facts of course say otherwise.
Which facts?

Maybe their growth is due to growing population of aspiring "traders" pushed by aggressive marketing.
Maybe new wave of growing aspiring middle class having few dollars to spare on gambling for riches contributes to the growth of those companies. Couple hundred million new Chinese on the market has to go somewhere.
Maybe it has something to do with retail fx/alike industry consolidation in recent years, meaning the stronger companies grow in expense on the weakest.
Maybe the weakest ones, that failed, were the most dodgy one and customer judgment on surviving so far acceptable ones in just around the corner.
Maybe billion dollars spend annually by companies on forums like this, contribute to customer brainwashing and desensitize new ones for their own milking out?
Maybe their business model is based of churn of fresh meat and there is still plenty of supply.

There are number of direct and indirect reasons for growth.

How growth is any measure of quality? By analogy, McDonals profits are growing; does it mean we should go to have a dinner in McDonald? Just because Kardashian's show is watched by millions, should we also indulge?
  • #198
  • Jan 4, 2017 10:44am Jan 4, 2017 10:44am
Quoting yonseo
{quote} Funny how you say this when even other popular brokers like FXCM and OANDA inevitably has a lot of negative reviews despite having some of the most clients. If your logic holds true then such companies shouldn't be growing. Facts of course say otherwise.
I appreciate your honesty.
The broker doesn't care about negative reviews because when other brokers were caught with unfair practices they were still able to grow.

When does PaulDaemon come to work? Do you guys work in shifts?
  • #199
  • Jan 4, 2017 4:48pm Jan 4, 2017 4:48pm
Quoting mindspeculat
{quote} I appreciate your honesty. The broker doesn't care about negative reviews because when other brokers were caught with unfair practices they were still able to grow. When does PaulDaemon come to work? Do you guys work in shifts?
There is no point coming to work to deal with losing traders that will look for ANY excuses to blame their losses.

It really dont matter how much negative energy you waste on trying to blame brokers on losses due to ignorance. You still dont get it do you. HE WAS ALREADY RUNNING A NEGATIVE EQUITY BEFORE CLOSE ON FRIDAY. Just spread alone would of killed him.

Talk about strawman...
20 Pips a day keeps centerlink away
  • #200
  • Jan 4, 2017 5:02pm Jan 4, 2017 5:02pm
Quoting PaulDaemon
{quote} There is no point coming to work to deal with losing traders that will look for ANY excuses to blame their losses. It really dont matter how much negative energy you waste on trying to blame brokers on losses due to ignorance. You still dont get it do you. HE WAS ALREADY RUNNING A NEGATIVE EQUITY BEFORE CLOSE ON FRIDAY. Just spread alone would of killed him. Talk about strawman...
With all your efforts it hasnt deterred me from using Pepperstone
20 Pips a day keeps centerlink away
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