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Trading without stop-losses

  • #641
  • Dec 20, 2016 2:47am Dec 20, 2016 2:47am
Quoting yesyoucan
Yes, stop loss is necessary , especially while trading equity and commodity markets. In forex most of the time stop-loss get triggered and I use stop loss if I take trade against the trend . However there is no robust rule for that and stoploss never guaranteed by broker and can't protect ourselves from market debacle like Usd/chf (recent) crash. As when there is 3000+ pips drop and price open and close in Gap we can't guarantee our limited loss. But still stoploss is important.
in putting a stop loss must be accurate in order not to waste - it bro. and we could do a demo account to maximize the learning materials with skill and ability to the maximum trading, traders in the market mainly have to have strong mental and science have maximum so that the profits can be achieved its
  • #642
  • Dec 20, 2016 5:33am Dec 20, 2016 5:33am
I always stress on this – stop loss is a necessary and useful too, if it is used correctly. If you don’t use it correctly you’ll end up losing as much money as you would without a stop loss.
  • #643
  • Dec 20, 2016 3:53pm Dec 20, 2016 3:53pm
with or without the sl, here are my questions needs to be answer by yourself.

 

  1. would you drive a car without a break?
  2. would you be able to forecast the market correctly 100%, so every trade would be ended up winning and no need to have SL?
  3. would you be able to anticipate any news event or black swan event in the FX market at ALL time?
  4. would you like to well preserve your account WITHOUT the risk management by setting correct SL and fixed risk on every trade?
  5. would you like to trade your account WITHOUT knowing how much you gonna lose on the next or current position?

  • #644
  • Dec 20, 2016 5:40pm Dec 20, 2016 5:40pm
Would you make up silly scenarios to spread FUD to as many people as possible?

Would you not take out a % of profits from your account regularly, to easily seed the account again, if (when?) margin called?

Would you not trade smaller trade sizes so you can manage a move of 400-700 pips against you?

Would you not learn how to hedge a position and balance it out against a large position sitting in profit?

Would you not actually learn how to TRADE without a stop loss before actually stating whether you should do it or not?
  • #645
  • Dec 20, 2016 6:08pm Dec 20, 2016 6:08pm
Hi Guys, I am very new here, and to trading. I haven't had time to read through all posts, so apologies if I've repeated any one.
I am still trying to learn forex, and so far have lost any money i deposited, I have tried with & without stop losses. I haven't yet found a good system for setting my stop loss. I have however learnt that the stop loss is important. If I had a huge account and could ride out the under performing trade, then ifs probably not so important to you, but with a small account, its easy to wipe out the balance. Its happened a few times to me, I was convinced that it would come good, and it did, I just run out of funds before it happened. I have also made a deposit to keep the account open, and it got even worse and lost that too.
My new system will be to do the opposite of what I think I should, if my plan works, I'll be a millionaire this time next year!
  • #646
  • Dec 20, 2016 6:12pm Dec 20, 2016 6:12pm
How do you know where to place your stop loss?
What type of pips do you look for in your strategy?
I think I must be reading the pips wrong, I will get to ask this novice questions soon, but I hear of traders taking 20 pips. If I am reading correctly, quite often the spread is larger than that. ( I use xm - which seemed like a reasonable choice at the time )
  • #647
  • Dec 20, 2016 10:19pm Dec 20, 2016 10:19pm
Quoting lupo.grigio
with or without the sl, here are my questions needs to be answer by yourself. would you drive a car without a break? would you be able to forecast the market correctly 100%, so every trade would be ended up winning and no need to have SL? would you be able to anticipate any news event or black swan event in the FX market at ALL time? would you like to well preserve your account WITHOUT the risk management by setting correct SL and fixed risk on every trade? would you like to trade your account WITHOUT knowing how much you gonna lose on the next...
well i suppose with a stop loss you know exactly how much you will lose on every trade
  • #648
  • Edited 3:55am Dec 21, 2016 2:31am | Edited 3:55am
Quoting Nefser
Would you make up silly scenarios to spread FUD to as many people as possible? Would you not take out a % of profits from your account regularly, to easily seed the account again, if (when?) margin called? Would you not trade smaller trade sizes so you can manage a move of 400-700 pips against you? Would you not learn how to hedge a position and balance it out against a large position sitting in profit? Would you not actually learn how to TRADE without a stop loss before actually stating whether you should do it or not?
Nefser,
Start by looking at my FF explorer results, to see that some of my positions have been open for weeks and counting. Your questions are very logical. But experience has shown that the longer you can leave your trade open in the right direction, the more likely you are to experience meaningful growth. Actually the ability to trade without stop loss is what differentiates the boys from the men. You don't want to chicken out because of a small potential loss just before a big win occurs. It takes a Brexit-sized event to suddenly change the direction of M1 for any pair. So, for long-term trade, I stick to W1 and M1 periods. Whenever they disagree, I go with M1 period using SMA-3.

Just keep an eye on your period alignment based on simple moving average of the last three trades in each period (SMA-3). Adjust the chart screen to show 55 - 65 trades for each period, for appropriate comparison. With this setup you stick to the direction of the SMA-3 irrespective of where the chart itself is pointing. Using a line chart with SMA-3 also works best.

if the price of a long trade drops, you a new lot at the lower price and sell off the losing lot. Similarly, if the price of a short trade goes up, you buy another lot at the higher price and sell off the losing lot. If the SMA-3 shows a clear reversal, you buy double the number of lots in the opposite direction and keep following it.

Click on the links below to see charts with period alignment. (The blue line is EUR/USD chart, while the red line is the MVA-3 or SMA-3)

EUR/USD - D1 - https://s.tradingview.com/x/6VCUhZ4w/

EUR/USD - W1 -https://s.tradingview.com/x/VVGffSQb/

EUR/USD - M1 - https://s.tradingview.com/x/7VOYLIDS/

Note that the MVA-3 is saying the same thing in all three periods and they all agree with M1. With this arrangement, I will be staying on short trade for EUR/USD for a long while unless a Brexit-sized event occurs.
Mecrandie
  • #649
  • Dec 21, 2016 1:47pm Dec 21, 2016 1:47pm
i know some people who trade stocks and leave their stop loss out of the market. the beauty of this is that you don't get stopped out from market fluctuations, and often their trades continue higher. if however the candle closes past the "mental" stop level (there is a stop loss, it's just not put in the market), the next candle (at opening) they close the trade. later i'm going to explore this. i suspect it would be a better strategy.
  • #650
  • Dec 21, 2016 7:36pm Dec 21, 2016 7:36pm
As a very newbie, I think no stop loss could work if you could spend 24/7 if front of the chart, so you can make your own mind up if its going your way or not. But, in the middle of the night, if it turns against you, you have no protection
  • #651
  • Dec 22, 2016 12:58am Dec 22, 2016 12:58am
Quoting Blindin
As a very newbie, I think no stop loss could work if you could spend 24/7 if front of the chart, so you can make your own mind up if its going your way or not. But, in the middle of the night, if it turns against you, you have no protection
Please see post 648 above. If you have any questions you can inbox me. Thanks.
Mecrandie
  • #652
  • Dec 22, 2016 8:06am Dec 22, 2016 8:06am
Quoting mecrandie
{quote} Nefser, Start by looking at my FF explorer results, to see that some of my positions have been open for weeks and counting. Your questions are very logical. But experience has shown that the longer you can leave your trade open in the right direction, the more likely you are to experience meaningful growth. Actually the ability to trade without stop loss is what differentiates the boys from the men. You don't want to chicken out because of a small potential loss just before a big win occurs. It takes a Brexit-sized event to suddenly change...
Hi Mecrandie,

YOur trading style really simple!
Can't wait to hear more from you.
Let Market Tell You
  • #653
  • Dec 23, 2016 5:34am Dec 23, 2016 5:34am
trading without a stop loss would be very concerned, especially in the novice trader is very regrettable. Businesses that have the beauty of a big profit and also have a major disadvantage so it is very difficult to make a profit to be achieved. must be able to know in advance how risk is minimized
  • #654
  • Dec 23, 2016 9:33pm Dec 23, 2016 9:33pm
Quoting Monokl
{quote} Hi Mecrandie, YOur trading style really simple! Can't wait to hear more from you.
Thank you Monokl. Be sure to subscribe to my page for automatic notification of new threads or replies.
Mecrandie
  • #655
  • Dec 25, 2016 2:20am Dec 25, 2016 2:20am
Here is H4 Strategy without SL ....

1. Open buy order if long green candle close above red candle and close if 1st red candle close
2. Open sell order if long red candle close below green candle and close if 1st green close

see the below chart ..

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURJPYH4.png Size: 43 KB
  • #656
  • Dec 25, 2016 1:44pm Dec 25, 2016 1:44pm
Quoting mrhb30jr
Here is H4 Strategy without SL .... 1. Open buy order if long green candle close above red candle and close if 1st red candle close 2. Open sell order if long red candle close below green candle and close if 1st green close see the below chart .. {image}
I like your strategy. It is simple and efficient. What if you simply reverse trade direction without closing a position and reentering at a higher cost?
Try using D1 SMA-3 indicator to figure out market direction. Click on link below to see what I am saying.

https://s.tradingview.com/x/1JBjkS1p/
Mecrandie
  • #657
  • Dec 25, 2016 3:17pm Dec 25, 2016 3:17pm
Quoting mecrandie
{quote} I like your strategy. It is simple and efficient. What if you simply reverse trade direction without closing a position and reentering at a higher cost? Try using D1 SMA-3 indicator to figure out market direction. Click on link below to see what I am saying. https://s.tradingview.com/x/1JBjkS1p/
Hi mecandie,

you could using the direction of Weekly SMA 3 and D1 SMA 3 in the same direction as the filtering of trend direction in the beginning or D1 sma3 and sma 16
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSDH4.png Size: 39 KB


Cheers
  • #658
  • Dec 25, 2016 3:41pm Dec 25, 2016 3:41pm
Quoting mrhb30jr
{quote} Hi mecandie, you could using the direction of Weekly SMA 3 and D1 SMA 3 in the same direction as the filtering of trend direction in the beginning or D1 sma3 and sma 16 {image} Cheers
Here is the last 2 week of GBPUSD H4, more easy ....

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSDH4A.png Size: 35 KB
  • #659
  • Dec 26, 2016 8:40am Dec 26, 2016 8:40am
Quoting mrhb30jr
{quote} Hi mecandie, you could using the direction of Weekly SMA 3 and D1 SMA 3 in the same direction as the filtering of trend direction in the beginning or D1 sma3 and sma 16 {image} Cheers
Here is what I mean:
D1 MVA-3
Attached Image

W1 MVA-3
Attached Image

M1 MVA-3
Attached Image


I entered a short trade at Tp 0.74255 since December 17, and have been following MVA-3 (pink line). Note that D1, W1, and M1 are all aligned, which is why I don't need a stop loss. You save on trading cost by not entering or exiting at every pivot point.
Mecrandie
  • #660
  • Dec 26, 2016 9:45am Dec 26, 2016 9:45am
USING DAILY FX SUPPORT/RESISTANCE CHART TO ADJUST TRADE DIRECTION

DailyFX - Support and Resistance
Friday, December 23, 2016 03:18 PM

AUD/USD D1 MVA-3

Attached Image


See that AUD/USD resistance is maxing out at R3 of 0.7346 on D1 and AUD/USD.
Attached Image
Mkt price is at 0.7211 and MVA-3 at 0.71956. This says that resistance in D1 may soon be broken or a rebound may occur.

Attached Image


If a rebound occurs, then the trade direction remains the same. On the other hand, if the resistance is broken, you must first look at W1 and M1 before making any change. The market price happens to be still below MVA-3 on both W1 and M1. So you make no change in direction. If you must react, you just reduce your lot size.



R3: 0.7346m

Trend: up



R2: 0.7291m


R1: 0.7235m

S1: 0.7145s
Volatility: 3%


S2: 0.7056m


S3: 0.6946m
Mecrandie
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