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‏Take 1435 positions Every Day in GBPUSD

  • #81
  • Nov 5, 2016 3:07pm Nov 5, 2016 3:07pm
I can't decide if this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen or sheer genius.... I'll code my own EA tomorrow and get back to you on that. As a side note, for those trading on brokers with larger spreads, I think modifying an EA to look for those brief moments when the spread drops below its average value would probably improve the profitability of this system a lot (if it really is profitable...)
Better to run, than curse the road
  • #82
  • Nov 5, 2016 5:04pm Nov 5, 2016 5:04pm
One free advice from me. I have an EA that is doing just that. I have totally abandoned the idea of opening buy trades at the ask price and opening sell trades at the bid price. I also abandoned closing sell trades, at SL, to happen at ask price and closing buy trades, at SL, to happen at bid price. Just flip them over. Absolutely abandon opening new trades as stop orders, whether market or pending. Better go only after the market and forget about the pendings.

Open buys at bid, sells at ask. Close at SL: sells at the bid price and buys at the ask price. TP goes the regular forex way anyway.

What you will benefit? At news times, the high spread will hardly touch your SLs and also, you will avoid the artificial slippage. At high spread times, all stop orders within the range of the spread and the move get opened WITHOUT the rate being there. At all. Same thing happens with the SLs! Many SLs take place WITHOUT the rate being actually there. So, you kind of will avoid that to happen. Good luck.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #83
  • Edited 1:44am Nov 6, 2016 1:27am | Edited 1:44am
Quoting MoneyZilla
One free advice from me. I have an EA that is doing just that. I have totally abandoned the idea of opening buy trades at the ask price and opening sell trades at the bid price. I also abandoned closing sell trades, at SL, to happen at ask price and closing buy trades, at SL, to happen at bid price. Just flip them over. Absolutely abandon opening new trades as stop orders, whether market or pending. Better go only after the market and forget about the pendings. Open buys at bid, sells at ask. Close at SL: sells at the bid price and buys at the ask...
Do you mean like this:

Open short ==>

OrderSend(symbol, OP_SELL, lot, Ask, Slippage, sl, tp, comment, magic, 0, clSell);

I am sure you would get an OrderSend error ... MT4 does not allow selling at the Ask or buying at the Bid.
  • #84
  • Nov 7, 2016 1:21pm Nov 7, 2016 1:21pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} MT4 does not allow selling at the Ask or buying at the Bid.
MT4 does not have to know you are monitoring both prices but you are doing the actions at the so called "inner" price. When the price goes up, the "inner" price is the bid price. When the rate is going down, the "inner" price is the ask price.

Naturally, a sell is always open at bid and a buy always gets open at ask. You have to do it within your own EA to see the benefits. Less SLs in a first place. Less wrong direction trades in second place. Better overall performance. News trading might be a bonus, in my opinion. But do not being stupid by quickly closing down the winners. Just HEDGE them and leave them open for several hours. Then the broker cannot accuse you of being a news trader...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #85
  • Nov 7, 2016 11:47pm Nov 7, 2016 11:47pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} MT4 does not have to know you are monitoring both prices but you are doing the actions at the so called "inner" price. When the price goes up, the "inner" price is the bid price. When the rate is going down, the "inner" price is the ask price. Naturally, a sell is always open at bid and a buy always gets open at ask. You have to do it within your own EA to see the benefits. Less SLs in a first place. Less wrong direction trades in second place. Better overall performance. News trading might be a bonus, in my opinion. But do not being stupid...
Sorry I don't understand what you mean.
if "a sell is always open at bid and a buy always gets open at ask." how do you sell at the ask and buy at the bid ?
To illustrate, if a sell is triggered, does the ea then wait for the bid to become the ask ?
  • #86
  • Nov 8, 2016 4:11am Nov 8, 2016 4:11am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} To illustrate, if a sell is triggered, does the ea then wait for the bid to become the ask ?
If you have to trigger a sell, you wait for the ask price to get there and then trigger a MARKET sell order. Same with the buy orders. You wait for the bid to get to the level you want to open a buy order and once the rate is there - you open it immediately.

It will take me quite of typing to describe why you should do that. In general, spread is forex main defense system. When you start trading stop and limit orders in two different accounts, same settings, same geometry, same grid, same offset, same lots, same multipliers, same TP/SL, you will see how different the stop orders are, when compared to the result of the limit orders. And this tells it all.

You have to protect yourself from useless triggering of SLs and all SLs, regardless the trade trigger type (stop or limit), are based on the stop price! While the TPs are based on the limit price (how convenient!). That is a great exposure for the traders. Somehow, the traders don't get it... throughout all these years of digital and computer trading.

Yes, there is a price you have to pay (one spread less at the TP direction and one spread more at the SL direction), but I pay it with the greatest of all my pleasures, cause I am 1-2-3 SLs less, sometimes even more, when compared to the usual way they screw up the traders by opening/closing trades at rates the rate never being at, in a first place!

One more thing. The limit pending orders tells you the next direction the rate is going to. How they do that? Forex is trying to get along the final direction, as little as possible profitable trades and as many as possible losing trades. At the right time, just before the movement, the winning limit orders get triggered VERY HARDLY, usually they do not trigger, while the losing limit orders always open... that's at the right time.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #87
  • Nov 8, 2016 4:53am Nov 8, 2016 4:53am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} If you have to trigger a sell, you wait for the ask price to get there and then trigger a MARKET sell order. Same with the buy orders. You wait for the bid to get to the level you want to open a buy order and once the rate is there - you open it immediately. It will take me quite of typing to describe why you should do that. In general, spread is forex main defense system. When you start trading stop and limit orders in two different accounts, same settings, same geometry, same grid, same offset, same lots, same multipliers, same TP/SL,...
I concur. And I have been observing this as well in a different way:
"At the right time, just before the movement, the winning limit orders get triggered VERY HARDLY, usually they do not trigger, while the losing limit orders always open... that's at the right time"
But, how do you know that the WINNING limit orders are Buy orders for instance ?

To recap, this is what I will test.
When a sell is triggered, place a limit order to sell at the ASK.
When a buy is triggered, place a limit order to buy at the BID.
  • #88
  • Nov 8, 2016 7:27am Nov 8, 2016 7:27am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} But, how do you know that the WINNING limit orders are Buy orders for instance ?
When the buy limit do not trigger, this is the final direction. On average, this thing happens in about 38% of all occasions within a range. Just before the movement, when the rate leaves the range for a final time, this percentage is quite higher, but I have no precise data about how frequently it does open the winning limit or not. I just noticed the winning limit order stays as pending and the market order opened is the losing limit order. In most of the cases, the bid price was there, at the buy limit rate... That is how it works.

Quote
To recap, this is what I will test. When a sell is triggered, place a limit order to sell at the ASK. When a buy is triggered, place a limit order to buy at the BID.
Try this. Only market orders. Use the bid prices as a base, as the charts get drawn by the bid price.
Rate now is 1.1040.
Want to make a sell at 1.1030? Do the following. When the ask price is 1.1030, open a market sell. I guess sell's actual market price will be at 1.1029 or something. Set a SL at 1.1080. Now the rate moves towards your SL. Close the sell at SL when the bid price is 1.1080.

Do this at news times. When the spread widens. See what happens.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #89
  • Nov 8, 2016 10:59am Nov 8, 2016 10:59am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} When the buy limit do not trigger, this is the final direction. On average, this thing happens in about 38% of all occasions within a range. Just before the movement, when the rate leaves the range for a final time, this percentage is quite higher, but I have no precise data about how frequently it does open the winning limit or not. I just noticed the winning limit order stays as pending and the market order opened is the losing limit order. In most of the cases, the bid price was there, at the buy limit rate... That is how it works. {quote}...
When limit orders are getting hit "very hard" would it make sense to count how many hits there are at the bid and how many hits at the ask ?
for exemple, if there are more hits at the bid then it's selling pressure coming in ?
  • #90
  • Nov 8, 2016 11:23am Nov 8, 2016 11:23am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} When limit orders are getting hit "very hard" would it make sense to count how many hits there are at the bid and how many hits at the ask ? for exemple, if there are more hits at the bid then it's selling pressure coming in ?
Limit orders are NEVER ever hit very hard. You can only dream about that! That is precisely why when you trade same strategy as stop and as limit, the limit never comes anywhere close to the DD of the stop approach, as profit I mean. Eventually, you might end up in both stop and limit approaches losing money at the same moment.

If there are more hits on the bid, it does mean the price is about to go down. But you must have a proper way of counting the hits, a way which EXCLUDES the spread.

BTW, with pending limit orders, on a broker with HIGH spreads, one can more easily catch the right direction, cause the winning limit order rarely opens anyway...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #91
  • Nov 8, 2016 12:40pm Nov 8, 2016 12:40pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} Limit orders are NEVER ever hit very hard. You can only dream about that! That is precisely why when you trade same strategy as stop and as limit, the limit never comes anywhere close to the DD of the stop approach, as profit I mean. Eventually, you might end up in both stop and limit approaches losing money at the same moment. If there are more hits on the bid, it does mean the price is about to go down. But you must have a proper way of counting the hits, a way which EXCLUDES the spread. BTW, with pending limit orders, on a broker with...
ok. thanks

.. a proper way of counting the hits, a way which excludes the spread..

Not sure about excluding the spread; How can there be a bid and ask if there is no spread ?
  • #92
  • Nov 9, 2016 1:03am Nov 9, 2016 1:03am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} ok. thanks .. a proper way of counting the hits, a way which excludes the spread.. Not sure about excluding the spread; How can there be a bid and ask if there is no spread ?
Yes, you are right. I was talking about the perfect conditions. Hard to find. For example zero spread accounts there are. Very good for just counting statistics. Other option for counting stats is low spread broker. In either way, you have to count EXCLUDING the spread MOST of the time. Just filter spread influence. Maybe this is better said. I am excluding the spread's influence with the way i have already described.

When someone new comes to forex, the poor guy must to be first thought as ABC the spread influence upon opening new orders and how the spread affects the SLs. Nothing else really matters.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #93
  • Last Post: Edited Nov 10, 2016 6:41am Nov 9, 2016 12:52pm | Edited Nov 10, 2016 6:41am
I just found EA, its work that algorithm , and have many interesting settings - analyzing a candles ,traling, avoid Doji candels , but have one problem - Ea open 1 order and wait to close it TP or SL , may be here is a people ho can change this , to get trade all candles ///
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