Trading without stop-losses

True. Unless the wi-fi gets knocked out by the power outage as well. It happened to me once, I still cringe when I remember.

don't trade news and not trade too large ... then that's not so serious issue

It's not a serious issue in the sense that it doesn't happen very often, but when it does happen it's very unpleasant.

If you get out when market reaches the other end, then it is still a stop loss, no matter how you put it. You may have variable stops according to market conditions, but from what you explained, it pretty much sounds like you are employing stop losses too.

I'm relatively new to this game, but have been working tremendously hard in research and strategies to attempt to be successful.

I'm reading these comments with the utmost interest because many of the trading opportunities that I have traded on have revolved around the use of support and resistance levels. My issue is that it seems very difficult to target a 2:1 RR when the stop loss needs to be at a safe distance behind a resistance/support level, out of range of a pin spike which would otherwise ruin a perfectly good trade. Surely, that distance can be padded out by a small hedge trade? In other words, you are using your hedge trade stop loss as a proxy to mediate the extra distance for the primary trade stop loss, masking it from stop loss runs and erratic pin spikes.

So, my example would be that you can go 60+ pips above with your primary trade's stop loss, which may be necessary in a volatile market. Hedge trade 30 pips above primary trade price (where under normal circumstances you would set your loss at or close to) with a take profit at 40+ or so pips(if desired, but could do a soft take profit). Hedge stop loss at break even. Any hedge gains should absorb the stop loss range maintaining the 2:1 RR ratio. Should the Hedge stop out at break even, then your intended trade is preserved, at which point you may want to adjust the setup again. I know it sounds kind of convoluted, but could possibly work well as a EA trade assistant to automate the process.

I'm going to coin a new term - proxy stop loss.

What are your views on doing this?

if the trade goes against me-- I accept it and move on. Reenter if applicable. If you do get stopped and have to reenter-- big deal. With low leverage and a tight stop, that's hardly going to make a dent

Sure you can trade without stop losses, but it's going to take low or zero leverage. To trade zero leverage:

Is USD going to strengthen for the rest of the year? If you think so, go and change 10% of your savings into USD, then change it back to your home currency when the trend reverses. No stop losses, no margin, no leverage. Banks, hedge funds, private companies, central banks and governments trade this way. The only risk of total loss is if the USD (or whatever) goes bust, (but by that point you haven't got a trading problem, you've got a riot/mushroom cloud problem).

If you are trading with margin, you need stops. To use stops properly you need to know where you are wrong. To know where you are wrong, you need to understand what you are looking at. Most garbage systems are an attempt to predict the market without understanding what price is screaming in your face.

You can't forecast the weather unless you know what you are looking for.
You can't solve a murder unless you know what you are looking for
You can't track an animal unless you know what you are looking for
You can't find dark matter unless you know what you are looking for
You can't predict price unless you know what you are looking for

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I NEVER ever use stop losses, EVER. Reason being is I'm a Scalper/Swing trader and found no need or benefit. I only ever use stop losses to secure a big win..

Here I am the first time using the forum since a member 2010. I just cannot get round my head on how to post a forum. I do not get involved in any websites forum. I always lose my Deposit within two weeks without using the S and L. However, I am like Rick Astley sang, 'Never gonna give it up!' LoL.

Lost several tens of thousands over 6 years. Now using Demo with a determination to find my ‘Midas Touch’. I have been studying the Charts to different period to understand the trend. I do not use any So after several months of chart trending study, I still do not use S and L, and now enjoy a daily profit of over £1000.00 and then some, a day with a £10000 deposit. Of course, I am still suing a DEMO and want to profit every day without a day's loss. All the years since 2010, I continuously lose my deposit 'month in month' out. Now I use a whole month and see what I can Profit with just £10000. In essence, I need to withdraw all the Profit as my monthly income and leave just the £10,000 as the working capital every month. For now, I have no savings or spare cash to deposit. But once I have satisfied myself with the Demo account over a period to assess my situation, I shall no doubt use my credit card and repay it within a month. For example, on Monday 12 Sept deposit of £10,000, I am sure a Balance of £22.209 equity. Oh! By te way, I only spend Two hours or less a day, subject to any loss on trades open and wait for retrace. This week with 5 days of trading, I have made more than the Deposit amount. But that's my secret as revealing it to anyone would not help anyone to follow my method.
Ciao

RIDING THE ELEVATOR OR WALKING THE STAIRWAY
'Never' is a strong word for a Forex market with hundreds of variables affecting it. I don't routinely use stop loss to protect my positions because I am a swing trader. But I have also on rare occasions like CHF crash and Brexit, had to secure a big favorable price spike with stop loss or even closing out the position outright before the inevitable retracement that follows a big spike.

WAVES AND SPIKES
Day traders generally closely monitor and ride the Forex consolidation waves, entering and exiting at the right points to take profit. But swing and long term traders just want to remain afloat in the market long enough to catch the sharp expansions (spikes) and contractions (crashes) in the right direction. Once a spike shoots a trade very high the retracement is often not more than 10%-20% as it consolidates sideways before another spike or crash.

NUMBER OF PERIODS FOR INDICATORS
The choice of the number periods for any chosen indicator needs to be such as to track the support line for the sideways consolidation. My personal experience is the SMA-7 closely runs along the consolidation support/resistance line depending on the trade direction. Sticking to the direction of SMA-7 even when the market is going against you, allows you to wait until an expansion or contraction occurs in your favor. This may take hours or days. But it is always worth the wait when a spike or crash kicks in favorably. I use every step of the market against me for trade price improvement (TPI) by locking in a new trade price in the same direction and closing the previous trade.

CHOICE OF TRADE MONITORING WINDOW - m1 , H1 D1, W1 or M1

The choice of trade monitoring window will depend on whether you are day trading or swing trading. For day trading, m1 - H3 is preferable for identifying the pivot points for day trade entry and exit. But for swing and long term traders, the emphasis is on which window shows the expansion/contraction pattern best. Zooming out H4, D1, W1 or M1 chart shows the expansion contraction pattern. I usually monitor each position with the window that shows the most expansion/contraction activities. I also try to guess the frequency of the spikes/crashes in order to estimate the times of future spikes/crashes.

STAIRWAY OR ELEVATOR
After all is said and done, each trader has to decide whether to walk the stairway (day trader) or ride the elevator (swing trader). Each route has its own merits and drawbacks. One depends on stop loss and the other does not. Let the best team win in terms of long and short tem PnL.

mecradie
STAIRWAY OR ELEVATOR
After all is said and done, each trader has to decide whether to walk the stairway (day trader) or ride the elevator (swing trader). Each route has its own merits and drawbacks. One depends on stop loss and the other does not. Let the best team win in terms of long and short tem PnL.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! There is a choice or if you wish take the two choices. While I as you mentioned, swing trader, scalp the market. For example, yesterday post and Friday showed me a Profit of 2212.00 using multiple 10.00 open trades between 07:58 and closed the days trading at 09:12. That my friend, was only 64 minutes of scalping and Profit 2212.00

You mentioned long term trade, I also have a Demo with the same forex company and it is leverage using EURO. Deposited EUR150,000 on Monday 12 Sept and first trade made the next day. Studying the chart, I place a Sell and left it running and did not inspect the trade until later in the day. As said in my last post, I do not use S and L and noticed the trade turned against the Sell and was reducing the Profit. I closed the trade and Balance in the Demo account showed EUR165,216.99, a EUR15,216.99 profit. The second trade I made an Order Trade to Open SELL, when it reaches a market price at ??475 on Thursday 15 Sept. Almost forgot the next day to check CFD market and when I checked it, the market has been trending up and down. However, the Order triggered at 20:01 and I closed the market at 15:08 16 Sept at ??261 price. As it is leverage ot 1:25 and 1 point is EUR250 and with a 213 PIPs profit, it gained me EUR53,250.

Last night at 21:23, I open this CFD Instrument at 21:23, at Market price ??299 after studying the periodic Charts and trend, I placed a Buy at 10 per PIP. At 22:00 the Market closed and currently showing a Profit EUR2225.00. I anticipate the Market will continue at BUY on Monday and hit well over 170 points for profit. I anticipate it will reach about the ??470 mark and then some. If I happen to open it and see it rising after scalping the same Market of DFB, I shall look to see what gives. I intend to make over EURO43,000.00 on Monday. Watch this Space.

Trading without a stop loss is like having unprotected sex with an HIV/AIDS person..Always use stop loss and trail your stop loss to breakeven when price hits your first Take Profit target.As simple as that.

Scalping belongs to short wave riding. Experienced day traders know when to enter and when to exit. Inexperienced traders lose a lot of money doing scalping. You also have to contend with big institutional traders in terms of heavy SHORT term capital investment at high risk.

If you are an average individual investor, you hang tight to you limited capital and stay afloat waiting for the next spike or crash.

With even only one or two favorable spikes or crashes a day, the scalper stands no competing chancing with a swinger. Without perfect entries and exits (which are rare) the winning and losing trades for a scalper tend to even out over time as the market moves sideways during consolidation phase.

The total cost of trade price improvement needed by a swinger to stay afloat in a sideways market Is usually insignificant compared to the spike or crash yield. One is counted in tens while the other is counted in hundreds of pips.

Why even engage in sex if there is the least suspicion of HIV infection? Just as condom does not provide 100% protection, using stop loss also carries significant risk, especially when it triggers late or fails to trigger at all.

stop loss like a cancer, eat u slowly

This is what trading without stop loss can do to anyone..Price is a b***tch.

Another one.

http://assets.forexfactory.net/nfs/c...ar384494_7.gif
expinbar
Trading without a stop loss is like having unprotected sex with an HIV/AIDS person. Always use stop loss and trail your stop loss to breakeven when price hits your first Take Profit target. As simple as that

You are absolutely correct! According to Forex 'teachers' and other professional traders, this method is to protect and limit your Loss when the market goes against the Opened Trade. As an 'expert' in Chart trending and understand the candlestick movement including pips retracing at a certain point and average pips before retrace, But I have been confident in not using the S and L.

I do not trade the foreign exchange or better known as the Forex, after losing tons of money over the last six years. Then, with limited financial resources, I looked other Instrument instead of trading Forex to understand movements or chart trending. I had all the time in the world to record on paper the weekly, daily, set of hours including sets of minute trends. I still make daily records, but of limited periods. The input has now given me the opportunity to select an Instrument and I am able to accurately judge the spikes, up or down daily. With breaking the daily trend, I am able to forecasts the day's movement. I do not use EA, Bollinger, Fibonacci and whatever names there are on my Charts. These indicators or whatever you call it are just telling any trader, it has happened but not what will happen.

However, scalping is also another issue, there is a time when volatility on the same market, like release of news, when I traded Forex, at a given time. But the Market I trade is consistent to spike up and down at a given time daily for an hour to two. This Market correlates with an Asian Market for me to anticipate the movement. It follows just after the Asian Market has made its move within seconds. Hence, I only spent between 30 minutes to two hours daily scalping this Market. So far, over the last month, before refreshing my deposit on 12 Sept, I have not made a Loss in any one day of trading. With the current deposit since 12 Sept placing to the DFB and CFD which is only used a few times a week, In fact, have not lost a day's trading since I started to use this Market in a DEMO to gain my confidence since Aug 8. The DFB daily trades through the days after depositing a sum on Sun 11 Sept are: Mon 12/9 Profit £2099.00 Tue 13/9 Profit £1,189.00, Wed 14/9 Profit £1473.00 Thurs 15/9 £1787.00 Fri 16/9 £2212.00. This DFB instrument is the one I am concentrating. And once I am satisfied and confident with Profits daily, I shall place borrowed money on a Credit Card and pay it back fully without any interest in less than a month. At the current rate of Profits showing in my DEMO, I shall clear the Credit Card within two weeks.

Yes Finbar, if one is not confident or want to make sure their deposit is wiped out, like my own deposits did in less than two week every time, then of course any trader without understanding chart movements MUST use the S and L. I trade without any S and L with confidence to take the profit when deemed favourable leaving the market to run, over, either a short period or over days.

Quoting Mccredie
Scalping belongs to short wave riding. Experienced day traders know when to enter and when to exit. Inexperienced traders lose a lot of money doing scalping. You also have to contend with big institutional traders in terms of heavy SHORT term capital investment at high risk.


Good Luck to All on this Forum

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Mecrandie said: 'With even only one or two favorable spikes or crashes a day, the scalper stands no competing chancing with a swinger. Without perfect entries and exits (which are rare) the winning and losing trades for a scalper tend to even out over time as the market moves sideways during consolidation phase.

In my method to scalping, you never lose out. Once again, it is how you scalp the market and how you balance your loss in the interim while on its movement. Recovery and taking Profit while on the move is the essence to profitability. When Opening a trade and ending a trade showing it went against your Opened Trade, at only 30 odd pips in during retracing, I take profit. I also know, once I have enough profit to satisfy me with the day's Profit, I Close the trades even if it will retrace to give me more profit.

For example: On Wed 14/9: I stopped trading when it was showing £1473.00 Profit. I was happy with the Profit sum. I spent 63 Minutes only and close all the trades except one which was showing a a Loss £975.00 As it was moving up and down on the same axis for a couple of minutes, between £950.00 and £1000 I decided to close the trade. The moment I closed the trade it retraced and would have given an added £1150, if stopped at that time. Thur. 15/9: the same thing happened, I closed all the trade taking Profit £1787.00 included in was FIVE trades showing total Loss of £661.00. I spent 5 hours and 37 minutes on retracing before collecting the Profit. I did not want to spend further time. Previously with Currency trading, I found, GREED would tend to lose Open trades. The profit for the day suffice my emotion, I Closed all the Opened Trades. LO and Behold! If I had left the five trades to retrace until 19.13, to close then would have given me and added profit of £1500.00, making the day’s Profit to £3237.00