I mean. Somebody please explain why a " damn good trader" is hanging around the "commercial" section of a trading website, asking people for money? I mean. Somebody please explain?
OrderFlowTrading.com - The truth behind Darkstars latest offer
To all: please stop whining. He asked you money to teach you what he knows. Thats all. And you make such a big deal out of it. "is he profitable? oh, no may be not... does he have money? oh, no may be not..." SO WHAT? That wont make you profitable. He cannot and nobody can. Face it. If you want to check if he is legit better check his old posts on FF. Eventually you will find out that you dont need to buy the course, because everything you at are looking for is there. But ye i forgot, you are busy all day long to look for clues, so you will have...
+1 / Like whatever
It's all psychology...
- #48
- Edited Apr 2, 2016 9:59am Apr 1, 2016 11:28pm | Edited Apr 2, 2016 9:59am
- Joined Sep 2006 | Status: ... | 8,113 Posts
@nobody in particular: It's a rainy Saturday afternoon here in NZ, I'll post some random thoughts FWIW:
About vendors. I'm in general agreement that unscrupulous marketeers deserve to be nailed. If a vendor's client income is susbsidizing his trading losses, then he's effectively operating a kind of ponzi. However, personally I think that those who sell EAs, systems and signals offer even less value than educators. At least with an educator you normally get some ideas that you can develop further yourself -- in that sense, I see educators as fulfilling a role similar to trading books (but the latter are generally cheaper, giving you more value for money). However, I'm afraid that anybody who thinks that paying an educator is going to suddenly make them profitable is very gullible (and educators who make these kinds of claim are flat out liars). The best that any educator can do is provide information, maybe 80% of it helpful, the other 20% useless -- the snake oil guys are the other way around -- but nobody is infallible, no matter how profitable their myfxbook might appear. (Here is a video made by an educator who allegedly manages a $25m fund, yet he obviously lacks a basic knowledge of how technical indicators work!). I suspect that some folk (myself included) seek out systems and vendors partly because trading involves embracing uncertainty, and we lack self-confidence and are subconsciously looking to deflect responsibility for our own trading decisions. But these attitudes are ultimately unhelpful to progress.
Bottom line: DON'T put your faith in educators, ultimately it all comes down to your own aptitude, dedication and (especially) hands-on experience.
The only person who can teach you to trade profitably is YOU.
About trade explorers and myfxbook, I wouldn't regard them as infallible, either. Firstly, I've read that myfxbook can be hacked, and the results faked. Secondly, if results seem too good to be true (e.g. an extremely high win rate), that should be seen as a red flag. There are many ways to artificially boost win rate. Real traders have losses -- plenty of them (if the attached screenshots represented two vendor performance curves, and I had to choose one, then everything else being equal I would choose #1 over #2). The most time-tested edges often generate a slow-and-fluctuating rather than spectacular rate of income. FWIW I posted some more thoughts here.
Thirdly, don't be fooled by statistical fluctuation. A good result over 500 trades and a few months is not nearly enough -- the simulation results, both good and bad, in the images here were all produced by the same edgeless 'system'. Also, consider how many TEs you see posted here that are profitable for a while, some for several months, and then suddenly disappear. For performance to be meaningful, ideally you need to see results spanning hundreds of trades and several years worth of changing markets. And since markets can change their character over time, keep in mind that last decade's winning edges might not work as effectively today. Nothing is absolutely guaranteed to work forever. (Incidentally, the best traders that I know don't necessarily have pat systems; they know the strengths and weaknesses of the concepts they employ, and spend their time deciding which are currently the most suitable markets on which to unleash them).
About Darkstar. If you must buy from an educator, then at least choose one where you can pay as you go, rather than splurge a 4-5 digit sum up front. I was curious enough about 'orderflow' to buy DS's book, at only $150, and I gained some useful knowledge from material I'd never seen anywhere else. But I won't be buying education from DS, even if he was to post a stellar myfxbook, simply because I believe there are better educators out there. And no offense to DS, but looking at his choice of profile pic, he's not the personality type that I'd want to engage as a mentor. (Flashy women, fast money -- I prefer a more conservative, measured approach. The most successful traders that I know don't make extravagant claims about their own ability; instead, they always seem to be groaning about what a tough mental game trading continually is!). And finally, when you have paying customers, you don't shut down your service without any kind of prior explanation -- sorry DS, but IMHO that demonstrates a lack of integrity and professionalism.
The most helpful education I've purchased is Jarratt Davis. Now this may sound strange, but Jarratt hasn't taught me how to trade profitably; I don't use any of his preferred techniques or setups. He simply gave me some fresh insights into FA which I figured out how to best apply for myself. And this process has taken me more than 12 months, btw; there were no instant miracles.
About Forex Factory. FF's primary business objective is to maximize its advertising revenue for its stakeholders, in whatever ways it deems how. Nowhere in its TOS does it undertake to provide helpful trading information, let alone quality education. If you want to have a say in how a business should be run, then you pay the bills and take the commercial risks yourself. Many folk take this forum too seriously, even paternalistically IMHO. Folks, it's not 'our' forum, it owes us nothing; expectations of any kind are misplaced. If you don't like what's being presented at FF, or their level of censorship, there are plenty of other sites and blogs around -- and some that, unlike FF, are actually run by professional traders.
Finally, watch the video in this post, to remind yourself about exactly what you're up against. As the presenter says, you're on your own in a dog-eat-dog greed-fest, where only the sharpest survive, and nobody cares about your losses or excuses. If you don't like this kind of heat, or the lack of fairness and moral integrity of the industry as a whole bothers you...... well the harsh reality is that little is likely to change; and there are less stressful ways to seek an income.
About vendors. I'm in general agreement that unscrupulous marketeers deserve to be nailed. If a vendor's client income is susbsidizing his trading losses, then he's effectively operating a kind of ponzi. However, personally I think that those who sell EAs, systems and signals offer even less value than educators. At least with an educator you normally get some ideas that you can develop further yourself -- in that sense, I see educators as fulfilling a role similar to trading books (but the latter are generally cheaper, giving you more value for money). However, I'm afraid that anybody who thinks that paying an educator is going to suddenly make them profitable is very gullible (and educators who make these kinds of claim are flat out liars). The best that any educator can do is provide information, maybe 80% of it helpful, the other 20% useless -- the snake oil guys are the other way around -- but nobody is infallible, no matter how profitable their myfxbook might appear. (Here is a video made by an educator who allegedly manages a $25m fund, yet he obviously lacks a basic knowledge of how technical indicators work!). I suspect that some folk (myself included) seek out systems and vendors partly because trading involves embracing uncertainty, and we lack self-confidence and are subconsciously looking to deflect responsibility for our own trading decisions. But these attitudes are ultimately unhelpful to progress.
Bottom line: DON'T put your faith in educators, ultimately it all comes down to your own aptitude, dedication and (especially) hands-on experience.
The only person who can teach you to trade profitably is YOU.
About trade explorers and myfxbook, I wouldn't regard them as infallible, either. Firstly, I've read that myfxbook can be hacked, and the results faked. Secondly, if results seem too good to be true (e.g. an extremely high win rate), that should be seen as a red flag. There are many ways to artificially boost win rate. Real traders have losses -- plenty of them (if the attached screenshots represented two vendor performance curves, and I had to choose one, then everything else being equal I would choose #1 over #2). The most time-tested edges often generate a slow-and-fluctuating rather than spectacular rate of income. FWIW I posted some more thoughts here.
Thirdly, don't be fooled by statistical fluctuation. A good result over 500 trades and a few months is not nearly enough -- the simulation results, both good and bad, in the images here were all produced by the same edgeless 'system'. Also, consider how many TEs you see posted here that are profitable for a while, some for several months, and then suddenly disappear. For performance to be meaningful, ideally you need to see results spanning hundreds of trades and several years worth of changing markets. And since markets can change their character over time, keep in mind that last decade's winning edges might not work as effectively today. Nothing is absolutely guaranteed to work forever. (Incidentally, the best traders that I know don't necessarily have pat systems; they know the strengths and weaknesses of the concepts they employ, and spend their time deciding which are currently the most suitable markets on which to unleash them).
About Darkstar. If you must buy from an educator, then at least choose one where you can pay as you go, rather than splurge a 4-5 digit sum up front. I was curious enough about 'orderflow' to buy DS's book, at only $150, and I gained some useful knowledge from material I'd never seen anywhere else. But I won't be buying education from DS, even if he was to post a stellar myfxbook, simply because I believe there are better educators out there. And no offense to DS, but looking at his choice of profile pic, he's not the personality type that I'd want to engage as a mentor. (Flashy women, fast money -- I prefer a more conservative, measured approach. The most successful traders that I know don't make extravagant claims about their own ability; instead, they always seem to be groaning about what a tough mental game trading continually is!). And finally, when you have paying customers, you don't shut down your service without any kind of prior explanation -- sorry DS, but IMHO that demonstrates a lack of integrity and professionalism.
The most helpful education I've purchased is Jarratt Davis. Now this may sound strange, but Jarratt hasn't taught me how to trade profitably; I don't use any of his preferred techniques or setups. He simply gave me some fresh insights into FA which I figured out how to best apply for myself. And this process has taken me more than 12 months, btw; there were no instant miracles.
About Forex Factory. FF's primary business objective is to maximize its advertising revenue for its stakeholders, in whatever ways it deems how. Nowhere in its TOS does it undertake to provide helpful trading information, let alone quality education. If you want to have a say in how a business should be run, then you pay the bills and take the commercial risks yourself. Many folk take this forum too seriously, even paternalistically IMHO. Folks, it's not 'our' forum, it owes us nothing; expectations of any kind are misplaced. If you don't like what's being presented at FF, or their level of censorship, there are plenty of other sites and blogs around -- and some that, unlike FF, are actually run by professional traders.
Finally, watch the video in this post, to remind yourself about exactly what you're up against. As the presenter says, you're on your own in a dog-eat-dog greed-fest, where only the sharpest survive, and nobody cares about your losses or excuses. If you don't like this kind of heat, or the lack of fairness and moral integrity of the industry as a whole bothers you...... well the harsh reality is that little is likely to change; and there are less stressful ways to seek an income.
- #51
- Apr 9, 2016 8:43am Apr 9, 2016 8:43am
- | Membership Revoked | Joined May 2006 | 3,625 Posts
@nobody in particular:... About Forex Factory. FF's primary business objective is to maximize its advertising revenue for its stakeholders, in whatever ways it deems how. Nowhere in its TOS does it undertake to provide helpful trading information, let alone quality education. If you want to have a say in how a business should be run, then you pay the bills and take the commercial risks yourself. Many folk take this forum too seriously, even paternalistically IMHO. Folks, it's not 'our' forum, it owes us nothing; expectations of any kind are misplaced....
- #57
- Jun 7, 2017 7:27am Jun 7, 2017 7:27am
- | Membership Revoked | Joined Nov 2005 | 1,429 Posts
How long do you expect that "you can't trade" trope to work exactly? You know you can buy a t bond and earn trading profits right? And doesn't the very fact that I'm still here defeat the logic of your argument axiomatically?
I really don't understand what it is you're railing against. What are you doing here? Are you trading? Sharing insight? Calling trades? Cuz I look through your posts and see...nothing. It's all negativity and strife. No content. And certainly no value.
Yes, I brought a new version of the website online. All new content, strategies, and the offering goes way beyond education.
The education is there to help the 6.99 billion people who are not redbarron1981 and his band of miserable cohorts learn how markets generally, and my services specifically, work to improve the average trader's life and results.
My apologies if you feel like I should keep everything to myself, or that I should cleanse my soul for thinking it prudent to charge money for my time and work, but I have to fundamentally disagree with your premise that I should admit to the nonsense you use to slander me. I don't feel like I'm ripping anyone off. There is real value on offer, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. Not with your BS "show me your track record" garbage. Everyone already knows those services sell the order flow to investment banks for exploitation. Rip up the logic of the methodology I'm teaching or bugger off to some other thread.
Thanks.
I really don't understand what it is you're railing against. What are you doing here? Are you trading? Sharing insight? Calling trades? Cuz I look through your posts and see...nothing. It's all negativity and strife. No content. And certainly no value.
Yes, I brought a new version of the website online. All new content, strategies, and the offering goes way beyond education.
The education is there to help the 6.99 billion people who are not redbarron1981 and his band of miserable cohorts learn how markets generally, and my services specifically, work to improve the average trader's life and results.
My apologies if you feel like I should keep everything to myself, or that I should cleanse my soul for thinking it prudent to charge money for my time and work, but I have to fundamentally disagree with your premise that I should admit to the nonsense you use to slander me. I don't feel like I'm ripping anyone off. There is real value on offer, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. Not with your BS "show me your track record" garbage. Everyone already knows those services sell the order flow to investment banks for exploitation. Rip up the logic of the methodology I'm teaching or bugger off to some other thread.
Thanks.