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Breaking News: Belgium bans all leveraged Forex, CFDs

  • #21
  • Aug 16, 2016 5:48am Aug 16, 2016 5:48am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Trade with brokers from UK then since UK is no longer part of EU.
No, you are wrong.
  • #22
  • Aug 16, 2016 10:44am Aug 16, 2016 10:44am
Quoting JensG
{quote} Care to explain where the problem is?
Tracking where you are trading from is kinda easy.
If they can prove that i am working from Belgium then i have to pay taxes in Belgium and i will get sued for tax evasion if i tried to avoid it.

If it really was that easy nobody would pay taxes since we all would place our company in some kind of tax haven ...
  • #23
  • Aug 16, 2016 11:07am Aug 16, 2016 11:07am
Quoting Dkam
{quote} Tracking where you are trading from is kinda easy. If they can prove that i am working from Belgium then i have to pay taxes in Belgium and i will get sued for tax evasion if i tried to avoid it. If it really was that easy nobody would pay taxes since we all would place our company in some kind of tax haven ...
I didn't say you trade tax free, I just said it has no big tax complications. Big difference.
  • #24
  • Aug 16, 2016 11:15am Aug 16, 2016 11:15am
Quoting JensG
{quote} I didn't say you trade tax free, I just said it has no big tax complications. Big difference.
Correct, but you also said: "You can actually leave the country without leaving it."
Technically yes, you can do that. Until they find out, then you are f*cked big time.

If i would like to move my company to lets say Bulgaria then i would have 2 options, either work from Bulgaria or hire someone to do my management in Bulgaria.
The best option for a trader living in Belgium is moving to the Netherlands, if you have a day job and trade you almost pay no taxes over the trading income.
  • #25
  • Aug 16, 2016 11:24am Aug 16, 2016 11:24am
Quoting Dkam
{quote} Correct, but you also said: "You can actually leave the country without leaving it." Technically yes, you can do that. Until they find out, then you are f*cked big time.
No, you're not. The business is registered in Jersey or Bulgaria or whatever. You may not have the tax benefit of that jurisdiction but when it comes to trading the Belgium authority is no longer your problem. Trading isn't illegal in Belgium, just offering that service to residents in that country, from the brokers point of view, the customer is not belgium, it's a company that is managed from Belgium.
  • #26
  • Aug 16, 2016 11:29am Aug 16, 2016 11:29am
Quoting JensG
{quote} No, you're not. The business is registered in Jersey or Bulgaria or whatever. You may not have the tax benefit of that jurisdiction but when it comes to trading the Belgium authority is no longer your problem. Trading isn't illegal in Belgium, just offering that service to residents in that country, from the brokers point of view, the customer is not belgium, it's a company that is managed from Belgium.
Oops, you are correct, i thought we ware talking about the tax benefits
  • #27
  • Aug 16, 2016 1:26pm Aug 16, 2016 1:26pm
From FSMA's official website (http://www.fsma.be/en/Site/Repositor...8_banning.aspx):
Quote
The Regulation applies to unlisted, or 'over-the-counter' (OTC) derivatives. It does not apply to derivatives that are admitted to trading on a regulated market or on a multilateral trading facility.

From wiki :
Quote
A multilateral trading facility (MTF) is a European regulatory term for a non-exchange financial trading venue. ..., typically using electronic systems. The concept was introduced within the Markets in Financial Instruments Directive (MiFID)

So, from my understanding an ECN is not quite like an MTF. I think most ECN's do not comply with all the MTF rules. One of the (few) exceptions is LMAX broker; wiki:
Quote
LMAX Exchange is a London-based FCA-regulated multilateral trading facility (MTF) for FX trading. LMAX Exchange provides low latency, order-driven execution venue for electronic trading on the foreign exchange market (FX). LMAX Exchange operates an MTF as defined in the Markets in Financial Instruments Directive (MiFID). At the core of an MTF concept is an exchange style trading model; just as on an exchange - orders are matched in price/time priority with no 'last look' or ability to reject orders by liquidity providers.


More on mtf :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multil...ading_facility
http://thefxview.com/2014/03/02/what...-facility-mtf/
  • #28
  • Aug 18, 2016 4:27am Aug 18, 2016 4:27am
I initially assumed that Forex was banned too, but I then I took a better look and apparently there's a discrepancy between the English and the French statements? While in the English statement trading is what's banned, the French one bans only advertising of Forex, CFDs, binary options, etc. Does anyone know whether there has been a clarification?
  • #29
  • Aug 18, 2016 1:04pm Aug 18, 2016 1:04pm
I am Belgian and I must say my heart skipped a beat when I read this. However, after some digging, I found that it's the advertising of said products that is forbidden. Not the actual trading itself.
  • #30
  • Aug 18, 2016 2:28pm Aug 18, 2016 2:28pm
Quoting Lotuscode
I am Belgian and I must say my heart skipped a beat when I read this. However, after some digging, I found that it's the advertising of said products that is forbidden. Not the actual trading itself.

I'm Belgian too. Today I've received an email from ThinkForex (ThinkMarkets):

"due to new regulations in Belgium, Forex and CFD products have been restricted for Belgian residents. Unfortunately, we will therefore no longer be able to provide trading services to you."

Furthermore I'm adviced, as from today, not to open any new trades and my account (and of course any open trades) will be closed as from September 16th 2016...

So, don't kid yourself, forex trading is over for Belgian citizens.
95% of the people don't believe 100% they can win, that's why they lose
  • #31
  • Edited 5:35pm Aug 18, 2016 4:53pm | Edited 5:35pm
I'm shocked to when i receive the news yesterday from my broker and i'm still shocked now.
After receiving the news i've been looking around for answers and reading the royal decree.

And i agree what Lotuscode said. The whole law comes down to the meaning of the word commercialising.
Because its stated that its forbidden to commercialising CDF, Forex,... product.
On page 47890 in the royal degree it explain the meaning of the word commercialising.

What the term commercialising means is presenting the product in anyway to a client
that encourage the prospective client to purchase, subscription, acceptance of signing in
the product.

So it means you cannot advertise these product. OK, now...

I havent find anything about forbidden to trade and also it doesn't mention anything about existing accounts!

What it can means is that they cant offer new accounts, but it doesnt mean you cant trade if you already have an account.

I have noted this to my current broker and i really hope they do something about it.

I advise other belgium forex trader also note this to their current broker.
There might be hope for us afteral...
  • #32
  • Aug 18, 2016 7:59pm Aug 18, 2016 7:59pm
Quoting cherno99
From FSMA's official website (http://www.fsma.be/en/Site/Repositor...8_banning.aspx): {quote} From wiki : {quote} So, from my understanding an ECN is not quite like an MTF. I think most ECN's do not comply with all the MTF rules. One of the (few) exceptions is LMAX broker; wiki: {quote} More on mtf : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multil...ading_facility http://thefxview.com/2014/03/02/what...-facility-mtf/
Ok so I was right then. It doesn't matter that you are a Belgian citizen, it's just that brokers in Belgium are not allowed to offer leveraged forex products anymore. So WHY don't you trade with a firm that is NOT from Belgium especially a firm that even qualifies as an MTF which this ban does not apply?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #33
  • Aug 18, 2016 8:14pm Aug 18, 2016 8:14pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Ok so I was right then. It doesn't matter that you are a Belgian citizen, it's just that brokers in Belgium are not allowed to offer leveraged forex products anymore. So WHY don't you trade with a firm that is NOT from Belgium especially a firm that even qualifies as an MTF which this ban does not apply?
You gotta love the EU.

A bureaucratic nightmare
  • #34
  • Aug 18, 2016 9:28pm Aug 18, 2016 9:28pm
Quoting lasty
{quote} You gotta love the EU. A bureaucratic nightmare
That's WHY Britain left. Hope they will do better on their own.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #35
  • Edited 1:18am Aug 19, 2016 1:06am | Edited 1:18am
My opinion is that if you will go in a court and make a bad ass statement about your rights u can unban this, all they say about protecting the people is a big BS, is about controlling the curency's whit no interference, just a small statement, a country can protect their citizens by making laws against brokers who try to scam people, what I hate about this bans is that before people could made money before and now you are banned? Big big BS, atm I'm not in a country who banned forex but it can spread to other country(why they don't ban online casino's also?)
I need the magic ball
  • #36
  • Aug 19, 2016 3:27am Aug 19, 2016 3:27am
im fully support for banned all instrument..
The High Frequency Trader with 10years experience
  • #37
  • Aug 19, 2016 3:43am Aug 19, 2016 3:43am
More jackass behaviour from the jackass regulators/Government Agencies. Last week it was the US that effectively banned much of the FX retail traders from operating with IB pulling out meaning others are likely to. US citizens can't trade CFDs either but that has been a long standing policy.

But the good news is it's highly unlikely to happen in the UK as broking even to retail is a major money maker for all involved, including the regulators (fees, jobs etc). The UK also has a very long tradition in the financial markets so don't bit the hand that feeds you. Also remember that the UK has a massive gambling sector with all the bookies so it's hard to see how they can clamp down on trading when they let the bookies run riot. If you've ever watched for example Sky Sports you'll have noticed it's a gambling advert channel with some sports thrown in.

For those with large accounts it might be worthwhile to seeing if you can setup a small fund with you as the only investor, that would probably hel0p get around much of these crazy bans.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #38
  • Aug 19, 2016 5:15am Aug 19, 2016 5:15am
Nobody can ban forex in every countries like Singapore , Cyprus etc and somebody from that country will sell Benami account to the people who is living in banned countries
  • #39
  • Aug 19, 2016 5:30am Aug 19, 2016 5:30am
So trading through mtf institutions is still allowed it seems? I know lmax is one, are there any others?
  • #40
  • Aug 19, 2016 5:30am Aug 19, 2016 5:30am
@mlawson71

You are right. I think the person that had to translate the article to english misunderstand the meaning of the article.
In Dutch and French it said banning of commercialising and in English its translated to banning of distribution.

These 2 words have 2 different meaning!

Also i think whats written on their site doesnt say anything, its what written in the Royal Decree that matters.


@forexia

I have looked up in the Royal Decree and it said that the ban is not for MTF.

I have asked LMAX if i can open an account with them and this is their reply:

"As an individual, you would not qualify as an LMAX MTF member. Instead, you would trade on the LMAX Broker which would place a back-to-back order on to the MTF on your behalf. We are currently seeking advice from the Belgium regulator as to whether this is acceptable and if we can continue to on-board clients from Belgium. At this current time we would not be able to open an account for you, but we will happily contact you with any further information we receive."

So they are still not sure if its possible or not :/
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