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Virtual Dealer Plugin - Brokers Please read

  • #101
  • Aug 11, 2013 9:15am Aug 11, 2013 9:15am
Quoting eurscalpr
{quote} it is for that very reason that I don't show my trade explorer. i guess i walked right into that one. I dont think you understood the sit and twist comment though... Which country are you from?
Singapore, an ex-British colony.

I understood it as studying the data therein thoroughly to establish if they are authentic

What did you actually mean, then?
  • #102
  • Aug 12, 2013 11:22am Aug 12, 2013 11:22am
look like the dealer plugin cause you to lose 99% of your account
  • #103
  • Aug 12, 2013 12:55pm Aug 12, 2013 12:55pm
That account looks like a strategy with frontloaded returns, like deep OTM option selling or some sort of martingale. I suppose there will always be people who fall for that.
  • #104
  • Aug 12, 2013 10:51pm Aug 12, 2013 10:51pm
Quoting Kevingreene
look like the dealer plugin cause you to lose 99% of your account
Still here Kevin?

I think some other threads need guidance on PB setups and credit lines...

Or maybe you could show us your account and we can all laugh at it
  • #105
  • Oct 7, 2014 10:18pm Oct 7, 2014 10:18pm
Quoting cogs
FXOjafar, I have seen and used your service and it appears legit and typical ECN network. Be nice if you can streamline your deposit/withdraw steps and process. MAXDoom, I understand what you are saying. As for positions not yet opened - 'worst possible entry' when brokers are well aware of the potential direction of the market, due to having access to more info than the average trader, and to scare you out of your position, hit your stop/break even etc. I shouldn't have to explain that one. ECNJesus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGWAEX5xtpY...
excellent video!!

I hope you copied and posted on other forums.
Be happy, friendly, humble and winner!!
  • #106
  • Jan 27, 2015 5:20pm Jan 27, 2015 5:20pm
Quoting eurscalpr
I think everyone in this thread is completely missing the point as to why VDP was really introduced for brokers in the first place. VDP was not introduced to rip off clients as the fear mongers of the world would have you believe, it was introduced to stop predatory traders from ripping off brokers. Huh..???? this makes no sense right...? Think about it. What does a B book broker do differently to an A book broker? B book brokers ‘automatically’ execute trades at the MT4 server without first confirming the trade in underlying market, this leaves...
Us, retail traders with $1K trading account "predatory"?? How are we "predatory" with our micro lot trade size? And especially how are we "predatory" when we are executing our micro lot trades according to the price that the brokers/liquidity "providers" themselves posted on MT4? It's not like us retail traders are forcing the brokers/liquidity "providers" to execute our trades with a price that WE decide on? (How would we love that for a change?) LOL So if those posted prices were not "confirmed in the market", WHY did they post them in the first place? For fun? So they post fake totally untradable prices to entice traders to trade against them but when the traders REALLY want to execute orders on those prices, they turn around to quote the "REAL" price that's "confirmed in the market" via this Virtual Dealer plug-in and they spin it as if it's justified? LOL In retail shopping consumer protection laws this is called "bait & switch" and is illegal in every single country with decent consumer protection regulations. So WHY is this equivalent of "bait & switch" practices being allowed in retail forex trading?

In effect, what has appeared to have taken place is a massive ‘requote’ in the market. Mostly known for taking place between retail brokers and their customers, the table has been turned with brokers receiving word from banks that some of their trades with them have been cancelled. A letter to clients from one of the largest primary bank reviewed by Forex Magnates, stated that “significant issues” took place during the price drop and actual executions may not match that which was reported by their electronic systems. The result is that brokers who had filled customers, may still be on the hook for those trades with their counterparties after seeing trades with banks repriced due to initial rates ‘being out of the market’.

http://forexmagnates.com/breaking-ig...tility-in-chf/

Nothing personal against eurscalpr here but if this is the premise that Metaquotes is using to spin for this virtual dealer plug-in which really has no place in the market and only serves one purpose and one purpose only that is to cheat traders out of their potential, then this is absolutely the biggest bullcrap that I have ever heard. Wow, unreal!!
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #107
  • Edited 1:39pm Jun 15, 2016 1:27pm | Edited 1:39pm
Nowadays, seems like most of MT4 (and even MT5) brokers don't use the so called "Virtual Dealer Plug-In" anymore...

There would be much more customer's complaints about them...

What do you guys think about it ?

MrJinks.
  • #108
  • Jun 22, 2016 3:05pm Jun 22, 2016 3:05pm
Market makers still uses plugins to fight profitable traders
Look these MF what uses:
http://www.takeprofittech.com/ashira...khWBoCaEDw_wcB

The nice thing is that this plugin is advertised on a very well known forex news website

It is a shame and shows how forex traders are cheated and how many regulators, first Cysec, do not do absolutely nothing to fight these MF
I have a list of Brokers who for sure uses such plugins
  • #109
  • Jun 22, 2016 4:21pm Jun 22, 2016 4:21pm
Quoting corre71
Market makers still uses plugins to fight profitable traders Look these MF what uses: http://www.takeprofittech.com/ashira...khWBoCaEDw_wcB The nice thing is that this plugin is advertised on a very well known forex news website It is a shame and shows how forex traders are cheated and how many regulators, first Cysec, do not do absolutely nothing to fight these MF I have a list of Brokers who for sure uses such plugins
Thanx for nice info. may be you can disclose those fx broker name so we can avoid them
  • #110
  • Jun 22, 2016 5:28pm Jun 22, 2016 5:28pm
Just a little perspective here....

Just as traders create EAs to attempt to exploit the market, market makers, ALL market makers, use tools to try to stop these exploits and other tools to try to gain an advantage based on trade flow analysis.

Like any market both sides are trying to take advantage of the other, the problem is the largest players, the banks for example, usually have more money to through at tech then the common trader, thus what the average trader needs to do is focus on trading outside of those normal parameters while maintaining a low profile. This can be achieved via order segmentation, different order execution types, and use of other uncommonly used parameters that can sidestep these settings.

Again this is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black here. Both sides do this.... As a non-MM broker that deals with MM providers I can tell you that the market and the way the MM's deal with trade flow changes regularly and if you need to change brokers to maintain profitability what you really need to do is analyze how you are sending your orders to market.
Kevin Murcko | CEO at FXPIG
  • #111
  • Jun 23, 2016 1:49am Jun 23, 2016 1:49am
What i think is that using such plugins should be at the 1st level attention by regulators. I know that some regulators, ASIC AU and FCA UK, knowing that a broker under their regulation uses such plugins, would react severely
But other, like Cysec and al the minors, are more intererested in having all papers at their place, but concretely do not protect in any way customers against bad practices

I strongly suggest to avoid all market makers and/or fake ECN unregulated or regulated by Cysec or other even worse regulator

If u go to Las Vegas and play roulet to an official Casino, i don't think it will use some mechanism to decide where the ball must stop
Then, if they see u are exploiting in some way, they kindly ask u to go away and to never come back again.

The use of such plugins should be strictly regulated and be banned if the goal is to lock orders, delay execution, and in any way switch a winning trade in a losing one

But seems that regulators are only interested in having all papers at their place

Market is a an unpredictable entity and is very difficult to be profitable, but if u have to fight with ur broker too...

Broker should be a partner, not a cheater

But then Liquidity providers are used to filter their order flows even better and wiht even much advanced tools

So, if u want to be profitable, u have to use only strategies with long duration of trades?

I suggest to avoid all brokers with such bad practice
  • #112
  • Edited 3:08am Jun 23, 2016 2:05am | Edited 3:08am
Quoting FXPIG.Kevin
Just a little perspective here.... Just as traders create EAs to attempt to exploit the market, market makers, ALL market makers, use tools to try to stop these exploits and other tools to try to gain an advantage based on trade flow analysis. Like any market both sides are trying to take advantage of the other, the problem is the largest players, the banks for example, usually have more money to through at tech then the common trader, thus what the average trader needs to do is focus on trading outside of those normal parameters while maintaining...
My perspective is you try justify something can't be justified. EAs are made for non professional traders. And almost all EAs only try convert a trading style in some mechanical. If you think this is try scam brokers then you have a concept problem
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #113
  • Jun 25, 2016 2:44pm Jun 25, 2016 2:44pm
Quoting FXPIG.Kevin
while maintaining a low profile. This can be achieved via order segmentation, different order execution types, and use of other uncommonly used parameters that can sidestep these settings.... As a non-MM broker that deals with MM providers I can tell you that the market and the way the MM's deal with trade flow changes regularly and if you need to change brokers to maintain profitability what you really need to do is analyze how you are sending your orders to market.
When you say keep a low profile, I wonder if that would suggest that, a 40 lot size trade executed in Demo to hit a TP of 17 pips may not be filled or may be sabotaged deliberately against the SL in a Real Account?
Let it turn and find your entry.
  • #114
  • Jun 26, 2016 4:45am Jun 26, 2016 4:45am
It is impossible for me to say if they do or they don't, but I've never caught LMAX doing any funny business...I've rarely gotten a requote, or denied trades, delays, any slippage worth making a fuzz about, messed with the swaps...if they use VDP or not, I don't know, but after more than a year of trading with them and watching them with a "hawkeye"...I would recommend them (their customer service aside....don't get me started here...).
  • #115
  • Jun 26, 2016 10:21am Jun 26, 2016 10:21am
@meyoik

LMAX does not sue any dealer style trade algos as they are an MTF. Completely different business model

@intrepidpips

What? I have no idea what you are referring to. A demo trade effecting a real accounts SL? These plugins, the majority of them, are simply looking for clients you exploit market maker's feeds. Exploit, as in take advantage of weaknesses, not using demo trades to offset their live book to somehow stop hunt non toxic trade flows.

@braintheboss

I was not referring to what is commonly called an EA in retail FX. I mean real trading algorithms, black box systems, and the like that are purposely made to find and exploit quote and trade feed weaknesses. Many trades look to profit on weakness and most market makers look to do the same. If you are trading some EA based on moving averages and over bought and over sold levels, trust me, the larger MM players in the industry could care less. If however, you are trying to triangularly arbitrage their feed, well this is considered an exploit on their tech, and they will fight back.

To all; I am not depending this... we, as a broker with a very unique order flow, get frustrated with our up-line liquidity providers on a somewhat frequent basis, but overtime you learn why and how they do what they do and when they will label something toxic and you work to reorganize the flow to stay in their good graces.

Having a winning strategy is step one... the harder part is maintaining its win percentage by making sure fill ratios and execution quality do not fall once you scale up the volumes.
Kevin Murcko | CEO at FXPIG
  • #116
  • Jun 26, 2016 10:36am Jun 26, 2016 10:36am
Quoting FXPIG.Kevin
@meyoik LMAX does not sue any dealer style trade algos as they are an MTF. Completely different business model
Thanks for your response Kevin.

Why would you think that an MTF couldn't manipulate the trade somewhere in the "process chain" when you place a trade via your MT4 terminal through their systems?

Thanks!
  • #117
  • Jun 26, 2016 10:42am Jun 26, 2016 10:42am
@meyoik

Any broker 'could' theoretically do anything they want... plugin or no plugin, either on purpose... or due to faulty or antiquated technology.

LMAX main business is working as an LP or clearing facility to small, medium, and large brokers and institutional level players in the market. The later of this list are VERY aware of manipulation when it occurs as they will monitor the level I and level II data and cross reference it with EBS or another highly aggregated data feed. It is not in their (LMAX) interest to create a system to manipulate their own feeds when they would loose the largest piece of their volume which in the end provides the largest liquidity matching sources inside their MTF.
Kevin Murcko | CEO at FXPIG
  • #118
  • Jun 26, 2016 10:48am Jun 26, 2016 10:48am
Quoting FXPIG.Kevin
@meyoik Any broker 'could' theoretically do anything they want... plugin or no plugin, either on purpose... or due to faulty or antiquated technology. LMAX main business is working as an LP or clearing facility to small, medium, and large brokers and institutional level players in the market. The later of this list are VERY aware of manipulation when it occurs as they will monitor the level I and level II data and cross reference it with EBS or another highly aggregated data feed. It is not in their (LMAX) interest to create a system to manipulate...
Thanks Kevin
  • #119
  • Jun 26, 2016 2:54pm Jun 26, 2016 2:54pm
Quoting FXPIG.Kevin
@l @intrepidpips What? I have no idea what you are referring to. A demo trade effecting a real accounts SL? These plugins, the majority of them, are simply looking for clients you exploit market maker's feeds. Exploit, as in take advantage of weaknesses, not using demo trades to offset their live book to somehow stop hunt non toxic trade flows..
You talked about keeping a low profile, so I was thinking, if on Demo, testing out a strategy, I could place a trade of lot size 40 and hit a 17 pips TP, are you saying that on a Live account because of the size, it could be noticed and deliberately spiked to my SL using VDP?
That would mean the small guy should not aspire to much in trading.
Let it turn and find your entry.
  • #120
  • Jun 26, 2016 9:02pm Jun 26, 2016 9:02pm
@intrepidpips

No I am not saying that. Most of these plugins are meant to stop exploits, like arbitrage, slow data feeds, scalping on illiquid spikes etc. They are not there to stop hunt or overly effect their clients trade flow. As market markets internalize risk and then hedge as needed they need to be sure that when they need to hedge they aren't slipped by their LP thus resulting in more risk on their sides... so they need to be sure some traders are not finding weaknesses in their feed and exploiting those weaknesses, weaknesses that do not exist in reality and thus are not hedge-able on their side.
Kevin Murcko | CEO at FXPIG
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