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Trading without stop-losses

  • #441
  • May 31, 2016 9:10pm May 31, 2016 9:10pm
Quoting dab
{quote} trade smaller position sizes until you work out your strategy
Great advice .

Just to add

Seen so many punters who demand leverage of 400:1 use it and abuse it.

If some one is offering you 400:1 they want you to blow up your account by dangling the carrot.

Trade very small positions at first and allow that extra leverage to work for you and not the broker.

DO NOT put in a stop loss in the market. Instead replace it with a paper stop loss and see how you travel.

You will be surprised that you have the correct position/idea only for it to be taken away by a possibly a large market order and then it retraces back favourably to your trade.

For the retail punter the object of the game is to keep yourself in it .
  • #442
  • May 31, 2016 11:43pm May 31, 2016 11:43pm
Quoting mishiertoo
i am new and confused about stop loss. I shorted AUD/USD and the market went against me. I adjusted my stop loss further to allow volatility and ended up losing 20% of my account. Later i shorted twice on the EUR/USD with a tight stop loss (7 pips) and both were taken out and minutes later, the price went down 70pips. I lost 35% of my live account in a month and i feel like a loser although i do not wish to give up learning to trade forex.
i'm new to it as well. you should do what i do - get a strategy going and then manually backtest it on past charts. it's time consuming, but you will see every kind of wave/situation you can come across and get used to it and know what is worthy going for. after seeing hundreds of charts i see charts much better now... then forward test on demo, or forward test with small positions. also, to speed things up, you can draw a line mark for each trade entry (ignore the calculations for win/loss, estimate it e.g. 2.5R, record in little table). the line mark is just a vertical little line for your trade entry on the chart (from entry price to stop loss price). eventually of course you gradually bring in an excel file. yes, it's hard work getting there, but this is best way to learn it first, since until you've seen many charts you wouldn't have learned it .
  • #443
  • Jun 8, 2016 10:47pm Jun 8, 2016 10:47pm
for trading then we have to use a stop loss first, then trade with a stop loss will make us able to limit the risk properly. we do not know where the market will move in uncertain and therefore the use of stop loss, the risk can be minimized by good
  • #444
  • Edited 4:45am Jun 9, 2016 4:30am | Edited 4:45am
It is hard to correctly place a stop loss tool at the exact point it can actually stop loss. It is either too early or too late. Either way it costs you money. You will loose more money faster from untimely stop loss activation than from trading in the wrong market direction. Same goes for mega lots. Well managed 1k lots can do a lot better than mega lots. The bigger the lots, the bigger and faster the losses. I think it is better to trade more 1k pairs in Ik portfolio than to trade only 2 - 3 5k or 10k lots.

What I use stop loss tool for is to take about 90% of any established P/L of $10 and above on all trades - day, swing or extended. If you can score 90% P/L on all your trades, you will an 'A' level trader.
Mecrandie
  • #445
  • Jun 9, 2016 4:54pm Jun 9, 2016 4:54pm
Quoting joldas
Hello, every one! i have a question that anyone trade without stop-losses, and successed? Trading without stop-loss can be done? has any opinion, plz comment here? thanks.
Would you ever drive a car without ever applying breaks? Its impossible!
Trading without stoploss is risky and highly unprofessional. If you've been trading forex for a while, you would remember the CHF issue that occured last year and how there was a heavy spike of over 2,000 pips within seconds. Those on the wrong side of the trend and without stoploss would definitely have their accounts wiped off.

Regardless of your strategy, what makes you profitable on the long term trading forex is your money management skill of which stoploss in one. When placing a trade, the first question you should ask in not what profit you are targeting but how much you are willing to risk (or better still lose).
  • #446
  • Jun 9, 2016 6:37pm Jun 9, 2016 6:37pm
Quoting rotexyo
{quote} Would you ever drive a car without ever applying breaks? Its impossible! Trading without stoploss is risky and highly unprofessional. If you've been trading forex for a while, you would remember the CHF issue that occured last year and how there was a heavy spike of over 2,000 pips within seconds. Those on the wrong side of the trend and without stoploss would definitely have their accounts wiped off. Regardless of your strategy, what makes you profitable on the long term trading forex is your money management skill of which stoploss in...
It's entirely possible to have been on the wrong side of the CHF quagmire and not be subjected to a margin call. Just do the math.
"Holy Grail" exists - accepting where is the first step.
  • #447
  • Jun 9, 2016 7:26pm Jun 9, 2016 7:26pm
Quoting rotexyo
{quote} Would you ever drive a car without ever applying breaks? Its impossible! Trading without stoploss is risky and highly unprofessional. If you've been trading forex for a while, you would remember the CHF issue that occured last year and how there was a heavy spike of over 2,000 pips within seconds. Those on the wrong side of the trend and without stoploss would definitely have their accounts wiped off. Regardless of your strategy, what makes you profitable on the long term trading forex is your money management skill of which stoploss in...
Good point about not driving the Forex vehicle without breaks. But there might be safer ways of applying breaks without prematurely terminating a potentially winning position. If you have ever taken time to just watch the beat by beat market price movement, you would have noticed that transient wild spikes or dips occur every now and then that triggers stop loss tools and still continues the same market trend.
Only after I have made up $5 - $10 on a trade, do I start protecting 4 out of every 5 dollars with a stop loss tool. At that point the trade pays for its own expenses without tapping into the trading capital. The way you know that is when all your trades close in the blue or green. Each time a trade prematurely closes in the red, it taps into the equity, and the more frequently this happens, the faster the portfolio sinks.
What I have recommended in my previous postings on portfolio hedging, is to to place two opposite trades of equal volumes, involving the same currency at all times. This allows the currency pair to trade in both directions and contain any fluctuations in the market.
To illustrate this concept, let's say I am selling 2k units of EUR/USD pair. Any time this pair is being sold, it is a strong trade for the dollar and a weak trade for the EUR. A protective opposite trade for this currency pair would be buying one 2k units of EUR/JPY and selling 2k units of USD/JPY. Buying 2k EUR/JPY provides 2k strong EURs to neutralize the the 2k weak EURs in EUR/USD while the selling 2k USD/JPY provides 2k weak dollars to neutralize the effect of 2k strong dollars in EUR/USD. Note that the 2k strong JPYs in selling EUR/JPY balances the 2k weak JPYs in buyin 2k USD/JPYs.
This balancing of currency strengths could get very complicated, especially when many more currency pairs are involved. But once this tight balancing is achieved, it takes away the anxiety about market reversals or market crashes. Until a trader is experienced enough to balance the trades involving numerous currency pairs, it is safer to trade simple baskets like the one described above in each portfolio.
Mecrandie
  • #448
  • Jun 10, 2016 12:55am Jun 10, 2016 12:55am
Quoting mecrandie
{quote} Good point about not driving the Forex vehicle without breaks. But there might be safer ways of applying breaks without prematurely terminating a potentially winning position. If you have ever taken time to just watch the beat by beat market price movement, you would have noticed that transient wild spikes or dips occur every now and then that triggers stop loss tools and still continues the same market trend. Only after I have made up $5 - $10 on a trade, do I start protecting 4 out of every 5 dollars with a stop loss tool. At that point...
I'm not going to be querying your trading strategy, but then I believe hedging is risky. Besides we need to understand that this question was asked by a rookie trader who needs honest opinion of experienced traders. Its best to let a newbie get used to the simple use of stop loss. Yes I agree there are advanced application of stop losses but then we need to realize there is a possibility this individual may not even have a profitable strategy yet thereby making him more prone to wiping off his account.

With proper risk management, stop loss even helps to protect your account even in the event of a losing trade. If you are on a $1,000 account with a high leverage and you are trading 0.1 lots per trade with a 50pip stop loss, you only need 20 losing trades to blow your account. However, if you are trading 0.05 lots per trade, you would have to make 40 consecutive loses before your account is wiped out. But in all honesty, if you are having up to 5 consistent loses in a row, then you have to stop trading and re evaluate your strategy.

Also of note is the time frame the individual is trading and the trading style. I'm a swing trader, so I trade with the long term trend in view. I look at the Daily and Weekly chart for trend and base my entry on 4Hr Time Frame. I do have a wide stop loss but move my stop loss to break even once the trade is reasonably in my direction. One of the rules of successful forex trading is not to allow a winning trade turn to a losing trade.
  • #449
  • Jun 10, 2016 12:57am Jun 10, 2016 12:57am
Quoting VaBikePacker
{quote} It's entirely possible to have been on the wrong side of the CHF quagmire and not be subjected to a margin call. Just do the math.
How do you mean?
  • #450
  • Jun 10, 2016 4:30am Jun 10, 2016 4:30am
Quoting rotexyo
{quote} How do you mean?
there's not a lot of rocket science involved in doing the math. I've put the time in to understand exactly what it really takes to crap an account out if you're being responsible with your position size. It's not hard math and it's quite revealing of how fearful you shouldn't be. GREED and FEAR are the traders two worst enemies. Whether you use a stop loss or not isn't an issue. What the real issue is pertains to how you are able to manage your own fear and greed. So many participating in this thread show their level of fear of the market and don't even know it. What's even worse is their lack of willingness or ability to acknowledge that they're fearful and the root of that fear.
"Holy Grail" exists - accepting where is the first step.
  • #451
  • Jun 12, 2016 5:12pm Jun 12, 2016 5:12pm
Trading without a stop loss is very important because with the stop loss will allow us to minimize the risk properly, therefore, we must use a stop loss and kept improving trading skills so well that the account we will profit
  • #452
  • Jun 14, 2016 10:10am Jun 14, 2016 10:10am
trading without stop loss is like sky diving without parachute
  • #453
  • Jun 14, 2016 11:46am Jun 14, 2016 11:46am
it's possible if you did grid trading...
Pips Collector EA, No Martingale, No Grid
  • #454
  • Jun 15, 2016 1:47am Jun 15, 2016 1:47am
Quoting priceaction9
trading without stop loss is like sky diving without parachute

Have you tried it without a parachute? It sounds like you have
  • #455
  • Jun 16, 2016 1:39am Jun 16, 2016 1:39am
Quoting priceaction9
trading without stop loss is like sky diving without parachute
That is a bit of an exaggeration if you ask me, although I do agree that using stop loss is preferable.
  • #456
  • Jun 18, 2016 11:42am Jun 18, 2016 11:42am
Of cause you can trade without stop loss - but you should always have the catastrophic stop loss.

For example, if you trade in a 1 minute timeframe, you would look at around 2500 ticks depending of the pair. If you backtest a strategy in 1min timeframe, you would set the catastrophic stop loss at a level that it dosnt trigger - if you have to set it at 5000 ticks, you should think of adjust the strategy, or find another.
Financial Trading Without Programming
  • #457
  • Jun 18, 2016 1:16pm Jun 18, 2016 1:16pm
i think trading without stop loss is great way to make money in forex industry............. never worry where price goes by
  • #458
  • Jun 18, 2016 2:19pm Jun 18, 2016 2:19pm
Trading without a stop loss is possible if you have enough money in your account to cover the drawdown and usually involves hedging but it can be done usually requires very small lot size
  • #459
  • Jun 20, 2016 11:18pm Jun 20, 2016 11:18pm
trading without a stop loss has a very big risk. To survive we need a good security. Good safety is to always use a stop loss because we do not know where the market will move, then of why we need a good security
  • #460
  • Jun 26, 2016 1:29am Jun 26, 2016 1:29am
Quoting gabanda
trading without a stop loss has a very big risk. To survive we need a good security. Good safety is to always use a stop loss because we do not know where the market will move, then of why we need a good security
Or has a very big reward, the thing is your trading hasn't survived anything yet, not even your security hence the conclusion we can make based on your ASSumption is your analysis is far from correct and this is evident from results you could/couldn't provide.
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