Broker Complaints …Get over it! | Page 3 | Forex Factory

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Broker Complaints …Get over it!

  • #41
  • Aug 25, 2006 3:44pm Aug 25, 2006 3:44pm
I prefer Miller Lite.
Life is too short to have anything but delusional notions about yourself.
  • #42
  • Aug 25, 2006 3:57pm Aug 25, 2006 3:57pm
Nice post Phil. Truth always seems to spark controversy.

I am however surprised to see you posting at the factory!




-Michael
  • #43
  • Aug 25, 2006 5:43pm Aug 25, 2006 5:43pm
Quoting StockKJay
I think this broker discussion is crazy. Retail mms like Oanda, GFT, FXCM etc etc are all pretty much the same thing. If you trade long term positioning or trade anything outside of volatile times they are fine. They give you tools, analysis, charts etc to use. They want your business if you trade anything but news. They may make something when you lose... they make something when you win by getting the spread difference.

If you trade news get with an ECN or some bigger broker that will let you trade with them. If they requote you leave and try a new one.

As for "news trading died two years ago"... that is pretty much the most useless comment I have seen on this board. Just because brokers dont honor stoplosses like they used to you .. is that reason to just give up and throw in the towel? So you can't straddle... go out and get a news service like Reuters and practice your reflexes. I know a guy that trades with HotSpot FXI and trades news at a minimum of $1000/pip. BS news trading is dead. His account is well into the millions and he makes or loses $50k on NFP trades. Can I tap into this? no.. because there is no way I can scrape together 500k - 1 Million dollars to open an account. Until then I got to stick with ECNs or other brokers and work my way up.

Retail mms will do what they need to to make money. The same as any other company. Except car manufacturing companies of course : ).
I have a friend who has 3 balls... basketball balls.
My remark is useless, Phil's is not. You don't agree, it's a different story.
Anyway, happy trading.
Try hard, think fast, die young
  • #44
  • Aug 25, 2006 5:49pm Aug 25, 2006 5:49pm
Quoting StockKJay
I think this broker discussion is crazy.
Yup....actually what's crazy is the frequency of this discussion. Get a grip, get a life.

Quoting StockKJay
As for "news trading died two years ago"... that is pretty much the most useless comment I have seen on this board.
Not THE most useless because it provides historical context. Your point is well taken however regarding whether brokers honor stoplosses or engage in slippage - that's the price of doing business. Depends on one's attitude and perspective.

Quoting StockKJay
So you can't straddle... go out and get a news service like Reuters and practice your reflexes.
Sigh.... adapt, improvise and dominate.... It's a game; either play or get played.
Quoting /StockKJay
I know a guy that trades with HotSpot FXI and trades news at a minimum of $1000/pip. .... His account is well into the millions and he makes or loses $50k on NFP trades.
Now that's Big Baller stuff!!!! I guarantee you he thinks differently than 91.618% of the traders reading this forum. It takes a certain attitude to drop $50k and simply say....."Next"! Matters not if you aren't at the level today. It's the attitude. An entry level job doesn't mean that's where you land later in life. Keep working, studying, observing the successful one(s), expecting to succeed, believing you will advance, and you can advance. Keep begging, crying and whining and.....well..... you get the picture.

That was kewl Stock.
  • #45
  • Aug 25, 2006 5:58pm Aug 25, 2006 5:58pm
Quoting merlin
absolutely right on with this whole post.

and for those that dont already know, you need to be with MANY brokers! trading with one broker puts you at a serious disadvantage!
This may be the truest post here for dealing with the current situation. I am currently with 2 brokers now. And I am already starting to see the advantages. However, I don't wanna have to be with 10. LOL
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #46
  • Aug 25, 2006 6:02pm Aug 25, 2006 6:02pm
Quoting merlin
yeah, we are opening a Broker Bitching forum very soon, i will stickie this and your article in that forum.

thanks much this is a great idea!
That would be the perfect place for all of this.

Then, if someone ventures in there to complain about the complainers complaints they will deserve the self imposed aggrivation.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #47
  • Aug 25, 2006 6:15pm Aug 25, 2006 6:15pm
Quoting Darkstar
I'm gonna write up a market microstructure article tonight that explains in detail why spreads get widened and orders get slipped. I think it would help the misguided noobs understand things better.

If its good maybe my buddy Merlin can sticky it somewhere.
Hello Darkstar,

I don't envy your task!!!!!!!
You have to address, why ACM does it or why FXCM does it or why Oanda does it or why MB Trading does it or Why Hot Spot Fx does it??????
There are IB's, Ecn's, almost Ecn's, Wanna be Ecn's and Plain old Crooked Liquidity Providers. Each one has a different situation.

There are general reason they all do it. But each one of these companies is doing it differently at different time for different amounts and even sometimes to different people.

I am sure what applies to an IB will not apply to a true Ecn. And then there is the unique, almost Ecn's Like MB Trading.

You have volunteered for quite a task. I am pulling for ya!!!!!!!
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #48
  • Aug 25, 2006 6:35pm Aug 25, 2006 6:35pm
Quoting smjones
I would like to complain about your complaining about people's complaints about complaints in this thread... No wait, I mean complaining about complaining.... No wait, Oh I am so confused.... LOL

Scott




Scott

I think you could be a very valuable, shit disturber : , just the kind of thread I like to see going

Quinn
I started out with nothing, and I've got most of it left!
  • #49
  • Edited Mar 24, 2007 12:22pm Aug 25, 2006 6:36pm | Edited Mar 24, 2007 12:22pm
Quoting mrmikal
FXO,

What you claim is fair IS fair from a customer's point of view...but it is an idealists point of view. Brokers aren't here to serve us. Short, long, medium, whatever...
Hello mrmikal,

We are truly far apart on this one. I don't feel I am an idealist at all. I just deal in truth and facts. If the price is at 1.8905 buy and 1.8903 sell at the price feed of the bank that is providing the data and liquidity then that is where it is at. That is the fact and that is the truth. There is nothing open to interpretation. NOTHING. If a broker decides to show you 1.8915 and 1.8893 as the spread than they are lying in a deliberate attempt to defraud and cheat you. That is the FACT and the TRUTH. They are purposely cheating you. UNLESS you agree to that in your contract going in they are misrepresenting the actual market price. Fact and Truth.

Brokers do this because they are not passing your positions straight through. They do this because they don't know how to make up for the loss they would incur due to the time period between your trade and their ability to cover their total postion with their liquidity provider. Some are trying to cheat you for additional profits while others are merely trying to protect themselves and "make it all work out".

Either way, none of it is Trading Forex. It is Poker of sort. you have a dealer and a trader each trying to make up a game as they go along. WHAT A MESS.

If the broker cannot operate their bucket system during data trading on actual prices without loss, then they need to go direct STP processing during data, Close down during data, or get out of Forex.

Many people say traders whine all the time. Why? because Brokers have all of the power in the relationship. Your only choice is to leave, AFTER they have cheated you. Imagine how you would hear THE BROKERS WHINE if the traders had all the power in the relationship.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #50
  • Aug 25, 2006 6:46pm Aug 25, 2006 6:46pm
FXopportunity, I like your comment but does broker practise different customer service like bank.
  • #51
  • Aug 25, 2006 7:10pm Aug 25, 2006 7:10pm
Welcome to the Curve. You just found the First Wrung of the Ladder.

Now all you have to do is figure out how you are going to Climb it.

{sniffell whine, the world is so cruel to Me. All I wanted was someone to tell me how to get rich without having to do any of The Work.}

Sorry, but I have no compassion for "Apprentices" that ask for, or are offered, advice from "Journeymen" and then respond by saying "Your full of Sh!-."

I understand that Forums [especially this one] are designed and function on the sharing of information. "Don't Know" asking "I Know" or {I think} even better, "I Know" offering advice to "Don't Know" but why do you think you no longer see people like {only an example} Twoblink around here any more? Pros are just that. Proffessional Traders.
Does it worry them if you become rich? Not a flea on a gnats Sh!- worth.
Does it worry them if you don't agree with them? Probably not a flea's Sh!-.
So why would they expose themselves to the ridicule of the uneducated?
Perhaps in an effort to educate a few.

Do you think they are trying to make you poor? Rationalize that one and soon we will need an "Other Traders are Borking Me." Forum.

I asked Barry Bonds how he hits the ball & still I can't hit a home run. Wtf is wrong with that?

Michael J. What do I do? "Considering you are < 6' tall, play golf." Eldrick said poker.

Ronaldinho, "How do I hit the crossbar like that? all he said was "Practice !"
http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=qRjsLUy72x4


"I don't have time for all that stuff. I am a succesfull whatever & I move straight to the top."
Not here my friend. Welcome to the great equalizer.

No offence to anyone & I know that it will be received with the "That's no help to me. I don't have time for this."
But might I ask that...
If you are still trading in 3,5 or 10 years time? Reflect back on this time of Your Trading Career.

Peace & prosperity
  • #52
  • Aug 25, 2006 7:44pm Aug 25, 2006 7:44pm
[quote=FXopportunist]
Quoting mrmikal
FXO,

If the price is at 1.8905 buy and 1.8903 sell at the price feed of the bank that is providing the data and liquidity then that is where it is at. That is the fact and that is the truth. There is nothing open to interpretation. NOTHING. If a broker decides to show you 1.8915 and 1.8893 as the spread than they are lying in a deliberate attempt to defraud and cheat you. That is the FACT and the TRUTH. They are purposely cheating you. UNLESS you agree to that in your contract going in they are misrepresenting the actual market price. Fact and Truth.

Brokers do this because they are not passing your positions straight through. They do this because they don't know how to make up for the loss they would incur due to the time period between your trade and their ability to cover their total postion with their liquidity provider. Some are trying to cheat you for additional profits while others are merely trying to protect themselves and "make it all work out".
You need to get some kind of grip on how the Forex market works. First, there is no market. There is a virtual interbank where banks and large multi-national business conduct currency exchange. It's their party and you are not invited. As I stated in the original post they have no interest in your mini-lots. There is no true currency price. In your example, if a bank quotes 8903 @ 8905 that is a single bank. the other hundreds of banks have every right to make up their own price as well. It's important that you understand what "bid" and "ask" mean. That is the price where that bank is willing to business in either direction. If you don't like the price go somewhere else. I know this because I was a market maker. If I didn't want to do business with someone I made the price unattractive. If I didn't know which side of the market they wanted to be on I widened the spread until both sides were unatrractive. They got the hint.

I don't want to defend brokers. We all have a love-hate relationship with them but they have every right to quote you whatever they damn well please. There are hundreds of brokers. If you don't like yours get another one. I have had the same 2 brokers for 3 years now and am quite satisfied with them. They have buildings, employees, insurance and other business related expenses that they must cover (not to mention a right to make a profit just like you are trying to do) in an effort to offer you a ticket to the big game.

Bottom line, there is NO MARKET PRICE and there is NO MARKET. If you don't like the game call the NFA and leave us alone or find another market to trade.

Phil
  • #53
  • Edited Aug 26, 2006 12:29am Aug 25, 2006 9:27pm | Edited Aug 26, 2006 12:29am
Hi Phil,
Your insight into FX broker business is thought provoking. I appreciate your candor. Sounds like you've been around this game longer than I, so I'm wondering what you and other experienced trader say to this question: "Given the complexity of the forex retail environment is it possible to generate a steady cash flow (whether as supplement al or fulltime income) over a period of time?"

I ask this because if retail forex has little promise of steady cash flow then it's just a game. Of to the brokers it's not a game.

KudzuFX
  • #54
  • Aug 25, 2006 9:34pm Aug 25, 2006 9:34pm
[quote=philmcgrew]
Quoting FXopportunist

You need to get some kind of grip on how the Forex market works. First, there is no market.

Then what are we all doing???? This is the standard market maker tactic to muddy the water........

There is no true currency price.

Then we should throw out the tic rules to then and just go free for all. Wonder why they don't?? Because the markets couldn't function.

In your example, if a bank quotes 8903 @ 8905 that is a single bank. the other hundreds of banks have every right to make up their own price as well.

Not even close to true. They can buy and sell their own trade and interests the same way we do. BUT if they enter an agreement to be a liquidity provider then they are bound to some form of integrity. Once that is acknowledged we get back to the argument of where to draw the line. And if they don't function with integrity with other banks, they find themselves on the outside looking in. Kind of how you said you treated your previous customers.

I know this because I was a market maker.

T H A T E X P L A I N S E V E R Y T H I N G ! !

Bottom line, there is NO MARKET PRICE and there is NO MARKET. If you don't like the game call the NFA and leave us alone or find another market to trade.

I see you took it upon yourself to speak for everyone. Or, are you just speaking for the market makers that are getting fat on a sad unregulated environment?

Phil

I really must say, this discussion is so much less fun and certainly far less porductive when people get personal and indignant.

THE Opportunist
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #55
  • Aug 25, 2006 10:00pm Aug 25, 2006 10:00pm
Quoting dof
I have a friend who has 3 balls... basketball balls.
My remark is useless, Phil's is not. You don't agree, it's a different story.
Anyway, happy trading.
Dof, if news trading died two years ago volume indicators wouldn't show 100/1 or greater trading differentials during economic announcements. So in my mind the remark is useless. Because it isn't accurate! News trading CHANGED two years ago, not "died"!?. The innovative people seek new ways of trading, the rest whine about not being able to get free money anymore. With the right broker as Money has said, you can still straddle and make "free" money. What would have happened during Bernankes speech today if you put a +10 -10 straddle on?? Probably a gain of 10-15 pips. Free money? Or is there another term for that?

Phil says he has GFT and Gain Capital. Both those brokers treat limits and stops during news pathetic. You can't straddle and you cant trade with a news service with them. They will requote you and do what it takes to survive and make money. I don't have a problem with that. Phil isn't a news trader though.. so why is he even trying to influence peoples thoughts on news? I just dont want someone who isn't a news trader and uses average mm retail outlets lecturing me about news trading dying.

Phil's whole statement is not useless... I quoted that single line. The post was awesome until he tapped into news trading. Of course it is dead if you use retail mm trash.

I admire your friend, I have too many problems as it is with just my two basketballs.
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
  • #56
  • Aug 25, 2006 10:09pm Aug 25, 2006 10:09pm
Quoting FXopportunist
In your example, if a bank quotes 8903 @ 8905 that is a single bank. the other hundreds of banks have every right to make up their own price as well.

Not even close to true. They can buy and sell their own trade and interests the same way we do. BUT if they enter an agreement to be a liquidity provider then they are bound to some form of integrity.
You mean like a liquidity provider on the NYSE who has the authority to halt trading during a news release until they can determine what price they want to transact at? I'm sure that would make you real happy...

Anyway, where are these magic liquidity agreements your talking about coming from? First you assume they even exist and second that they guarantee some specific spread. The first may be the case, but the second surely isn't.

A wise friend of mine once said, "try learning the ropes before you start changing the size of the ring". Instead of trying to convince everyone that the forex is evil, corrupt, a casino, and should be regulated into oblivion, maybe you should take some time and do some research. That way we can discuss things that actually have a snowballs chance in hell of actually making us some money.
  • #57
  • Aug 25, 2006 11:09pm Aug 25, 2006 11:09pm
Unfortunately I cannot find a post I wanted to quote from "that's not your game you were not invited" something like that.

That's not true. Just look at all those websites advertising forex trading...
...we were invited into this game and by signing an agreement with a brokerage and by positioning our money into the account we bought a service. Service in a market has the same value as a product. If I am getting a worse product or service than an initial agreement, I have right to complain! In other words if a broker cannot quarantee the spread, or the connection during the news - it should be advertised before the client signs an agreement. You know, there is a law in the US that a your service or your product should fit your advertisement.

Tha'ts how I see it.
Peace.
  • #58
  • Aug 25, 2006 11:27pm Aug 25, 2006 11:27pm
Quoting lietuve
Unfortunately I cannot find a post I wanted to quote from "that's not your game you were not invited" something like that.

That's not true. Just look at all those websites advertising forex trading...
...we were invited into this game and by signing an agreement with a brokerage and by positioning our money into the account we bought a service. Service in a market has the same value as a product. If I am getting a worse product or service than an initial agreement, I have right to complain! In other words if a broker cannot quarantee the spread, or the connection during the news - it should be advertised before the client signs an agreement. You know, there is a law in the US that a your service or your product should fit your advertisement.

Tha'ts how I see it.
Peace.
Your absolutly right and if you actually read the agreement you signed when you opened your account you wouldn't have bothered responding as you did.
  • #59
  • Aug 25, 2006 11:27pm Aug 25, 2006 11:27pm
Quoting lietuve
You know, there is a law in the US that a your service or your product should fit your advertisement.
Peace.
Yes, If you want to register your business in the US.

Check out the threads on Offshore stuff to get an idea of the advantages of Not being US Based.

Why do you think Most of these Retail Guys {if you dig deep enough} are based in Russia? [ or cccp or former... or whatever]

Know Your Counterpart.
  • #60
  • Aug 26, 2006 1:52am Aug 26, 2006 1:52am
No offense to Phil, the person who started this thread, but.
Your entire posted sounded just like the sales pitchs, of that of a broker.
PS - Technical Trading is gambling in itself, NO technical signal can 'guess' an economic decision, rumor, intrest rate, or FED meeting, nor hike.

Sounds like to me that you're just to shed off some of the negetively clearly raining down on brokers for a reason. Is it your own interest?
Notice that, Futures, Equitys, even Real Estate DOESNOT have these kind of complaints against brokers, or regards toward losing clients.

Simply, because, fact is fact. 95% of Forex brokers are all shady, and illegally get away with it because they're too large to be regulated worldwide. You rep what you suie on, what goes around comes around etc. You can't do evil and expect to get away forever by still doing it.
There are good people who do what is right and STILL get burned, by evil people for no reason given to them, but.

If this is obviously the case, as in all business. If a broker has to 'feed his family' and so do you. Like in all business, in the game of 'cutthroat, take no prisioners'. What benefit does it serve you to defend a broker who would much rather cheat you, than to see you succeed?

You only succeed cause you 'know the in's and out's to trading, NOT because your broker is trying to help you, so. Why are you defending them? Regulation will IMPROVE your edge against them. I think you forget, there are no friends in this business, or let alone any business.

All warefare is based on deception, hence you seem to know what you're doing in this, this business. So, what's your real intentions as to why you made this thread???

Nothing is what it seems, let's read between these lines.
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