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Need US broker for a large account

  • #1
  • First Post: May 26, 2016 8:05am May 26, 2016 8:05am
I need a few recommendation from people who are using US brokers. I have not touched any of them ever since they imposed 1:50 leverage and other rules but now have a client who wants to open an account. So dont have much info myself.

I am searching around but would like to know from people who are trading with real money and relatively large accounts.

My only preference is spreads being lower than 1 pip (including commission) on 4 majors.
  • #2
  • May 26, 2016 9:06am May 26, 2016 9:06am
The options are forex.com, FXCM and OANDA. All are counter party to your trades. Therefore, they will slip you, spike prices, freeze platforms , whatever they can to make you lose. If you can navigate through all this and become profitable, I have heard stories of them closing accounts of profitable traders. There is absolutely no benefit trading with a US broker. I've been trading offshore for 3 years and my recommendation is to take the capital you would otherwise deposit with a US broker and open a separate bank account, use an offshore ECN broker with high leverage and trade using only 15% of those funds. I base my risk on the balance in that account, not on the amount with the broker. In this way, if something goes wrong with the broker, you have saved 85% of your capital.
  • #3
  • May 26, 2016 10:16am May 26, 2016 10:16am
It's tough to take recommendations from the loser pool on the internet. Realistically speaking, if you're trading with a regulated broker (US or otherwise) with a good assortment of research tools and a platform you're comfortable with, you're fine. Trading currencies is not a profitable endeavor for most retail traders. Not because the "game is rigged" but because retail traders are generally stupid, comically overconfident, grossly underfunded, and obscenely over-leveraged. It's a harsh reality that you'll likely not see many on the internet agree with as they blame their brokers for their inability to make a living trading currencies. Broker profitability metrics are roughly the same across the board. People will tell you "95% of traders lose" and even that number is BS. Typically anywhere from 30-45% of clients are profitable from what I've seen.

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(Q4 2015)

..and I'm sure those numbers are relatively similar across big-name, regulated brokers. I've only traded with FXCM and I can say I'm fairly satisfied with their tools, research, and platforms. I'm sure you'd find comparable - and in some cases, better - services at Forex.com or OANDA. At the end of the day, taking recommendations from retail traders will just lead to you chasing your tail around and only prolonging your decision.

If you're looking for low spreads, pick a broker with low spreads and/or commissions.
If you're looking for good swap rates, pick a broker with competitive swaps.
If you're picky about platform technology, demo some platforms from various brokers.

But coming to a Forex Forum to ask for input from "real money traders with relatively large accounts" is a fool's errand. You won't find much of that here. Just people who blame their brokers for everything. I can concede that the laws and regulations we're subject to in the US generally suck. But you can make money despite them if you're not a complete idiot.
  • #4
  • May 26, 2016 12:51pm May 26, 2016 12:51pm
Quoting Bilstein
It's tough to take recommendations from the loser pool on the internet. Realistically speaking, if you're trading with a regulated broker (US or otherwise) with a good assortment of research tools and a platform you're comfortable with, you're fine. Trading currencies is not a profitable endeavor for most retail traders. Not because the "game is rigged" but because retail traders are generally stupid, comically overconfident, grossly underfunded, and obscenely over-leveraged. It's a harsh reality that you'll likely not see many on the internet agree...
Couldn't agree more as far as traders blaming everything but themselves. However, the reality is, the choice of brokers in the US is nothing short of comical. I wouldn't trade with a US broker even if they reversed all of the recent "regulations". They absolutely do freeze their platforms, randomly spike price, hang trades you cannot close, etc. I am also curious as to what you mean by you are fine trading with a broker regulated in the US. There is not one benefit to the trader, other than requiring me to put more money at risk than I need to due to the ridiculous margin requirements. As I mentioned above, 85% of my trading capital is safe in my FDIC insured bank account. My risk model is based on the balance in that bank account and not what is on deposit at the broker. So I execute trades with 10-15% of what would be required in the US. So while some may view trading with an offshore broker as risky, my opinion is quite the opposite.
  • #5
  • May 26, 2016 3:45pm May 26, 2016 3:45pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Couldn't agree more as far as traders blaming everything but themselves. However, the reality is, the choice of brokers in the US is nothing short of comical. I wouldn't trade with a US broker even if they reversed all of the recent "regulations". They absolutely do freeze their platforms, randomly spike price, hang trades you cannot close, etc. I am also curious as to what you mean by you are fine trading with a broker regulated in the US. There is not one benefit to the trader, other than requiring me to put more money at risk than I need...
Hi Pip!

Maybe I'm an anomaly but, I never experience platform freezes or price spikes - at least outside of what's typical for market volatility. I've certainly never had my account frozen or closed because of profitability. Just those occasional phone calls from reps wanting you to deposit more money or "upgrade" services which, to be honest, I kinda expected given the size of my account. What I mean by "fine" is exactly that; I've been trading well with a US broker (FXCM) for nearly a decade. I mean, if I had things like platform freezes, random price spikes, or whatever to complain about believe me, I'd complain about it. I just don't experience those problems. Does that mean I can't whine? Of course not, I'm of the opinion that brokers (specifically mine) don't offer enough basic information in their platforms. For instance, why I don't have a window that gives me daily, weekly, and monthly point and/or percentage change is beyond me. Don't get me wrong, I have my issues with the industry in general. The fact that it's geared more towards programming everything yourself aggravates the hell outta me.

But for the services you'd expect from a broker:

-Good execution
-Decent (not as good as I'd like) platforms
-Good customer service
-Fair commissions
-Liquidity

..I have a hard time complaining about too much. I liked when I was able to "hedge" and had access to higher leverage but, the laws changed and I had to adapt. FIFO gives me a headache at times but there's ways to mitigate that as well. It's not like I had to tie up all my capital just to trade currencies. I keep a base amount of capital in my account and withdraw what I earn. Now, I will concede that FXCM has me a little nervous about their financial situation, that I can't deny.
  • #6
  • May 27, 2016 1:13pm May 27, 2016 1:13pm
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} Hi Pip! Maybe I'm an anomaly but, I never experience platform freezes or price spikes - at least outside of what's typical for market volatility. I've certainly never had my account frozen or closed because of profitability. Just those occasional phone calls from reps wanting you to deposit more money or "upgrade" services which, to be honest, I kinda expected given the size of my account. What I mean by "fine" is exactly that; I've been trading well with a US broker (FXCM) for nearly a decade. I mean, if I had things like platform freezes,...
Hi Bilstein,

Thanks for all of your feedback, the compliments and the criticisms.

I'm glad you can attest to the quality of FXCM's trade execution. We offer different account types, so traders can choose the execution model we provide them, when they open their trading accounts with us. We offer No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution on Standard accounts (2k account opening minimum) and DD execution on Mini accounts ($50 opening minimum).*

Transparency is at the core of everything we offer at FXCM. While other brokers don't tell you what the restrictions are with their execution and you end up finding out the hard way, FXCM provides you all the information you need to make the right decision and have an excellent trading experience that meets your expectations.

On the DD model used for Mini accounts, we will face market risk as a result of entering into trades with clients. Because of this risk, FXCM needs to implement certain restrictions during news events.^

Additionally, we may take steps to mitigate the risk arising from market making more effectively by transferring your underlying account to our NDD offering. That means, we don't have to resort to the dealer intervention practices (re-quotes and excessive spread widening particularly during news events) which can occur with DD-only brokers, and you can have confidence in trading your FXCM account regardless of the account type you choose.


Quoting Bilstein
Does that mean I can't whine? Of course not, I'm of the opinion that brokers (specifically mine) don't offer enough basic information in their platforms. For instance, why I don't have a window that gives me daily, weekly, and monthly point and/or percentage change is beyond me. Don't get me wrong, I have my issues with the industry in general. The fact that it's geared more towards programming everything yourself aggravates the hell outta me.
FXCM is always looking for ways to enhance the functionality of our platforms, particularly our flagship Trading Station Desktop. You may find that some of the functionality you seek is already available through custom add-ons, scripts, indicators and automated strategies on FXCMapps.com and FxCodeBase.com.

If you can't find what you're looking for there, please reach out to me either via PM or in the main FXCM discussion thread: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...newpost&t=8960

Quoting Bilstein
Now, I will concede that FXCM has me a little nervous about their financial situation, that I can't deny.
Below is an excerpt from our CEO Drew Niv's recent interview with Profit & Loss magazine where he addresses questions about our finances. If you have additional questions, you are welcome to contact our Investor Relations department at [email protected].

Profit & Loss: So, just over one year on from the SNB day, how is FXCM doing?


Drew Niv: Were continuing with our publicly disclosed plan to sell various assets to pay back that debt. Specifically, were selling most of our institutional businesses in order to focus on our core retail business.


Operationally, our account numbers are healthy, people are continuing to sign up with us and we did 10% more volume in 2015 than we did in 2014, despite selling our subsidiaries in Japan and Hong Kong. This was partially because 2015 was a better year for trading in terms of volatility and partly because we were discounting our fees, so the actual dollars per million we earned was less.


P&L: And financially?


DN: Financially, we lost $300 million and then we got $300 million from Leucadia, so by Monday 19th of January, the company was fine in terms of balance sheet. Yes, because were a public venue you can see that our stock is a fraction of what it was, but people need to understand that the size of the pie hasnt changed, its just that the ownership of that pie has.


So the stock implies that the legacy shareholders of FXCM only own a small piece of the firm and Leucadia owns a much bigger piece, although the final determination on that will be made later this year once we've divested the assets we're selling. This is about the economics to the owners of the firm, it has nothing to do with customers.



For anyone looking for additional insight into the retail FX landscape including how pricing and execution compare to other venues, I highly encourage you to read the complete interview: http://www.profit-loss.com/articles/...-with-drew-niv



* Mini accounts default to dealing desk (DD) execution where price arbitrage strategies are prohibited. Mini accounts utilizing prohibited strategies or with equity surpassing $20,000 may be switched to No Dealing Desk (NDD) execution where there are no restrictions on arbitrage strategies.

^ The typical 2-5 pip minimum distance from current market rate for stop and limit orders on DD accounts could increase to upwards of 10 pips. Note that NDD accounts with FXCM have no such restrictions regarding order placement.
  • #7
  • May 27, 2016 2:16pm May 27, 2016 2:16pm
On the DD model used for Mini accounts, we will face market risk as a result of entering into trades with clients. Because of this risk, FXCM needs to implement certain restrictions during news events.^

Exactly my point. FXCM (DD), Forex.com, and Oanda minimize their risk by using techniques against their clients. When you say minimize risk, you are specifically referring to losing money. If you are counter party to the trader, then aren't you always looking to win? If you lose when the client wins, you simply cannot state that you have the best interest of the trader. When you state you want the client to win, you are hoping for your business to lose money? Doesn't make much sense, so how are we to believe that any DD broker will not do anything to make the client lose?
  • #8
  • May 27, 2016 4:43pm May 27, 2016 4:43pm
Quoting pipmaster77
On the DD model used for Mini accounts, we will face market risk as a result of entering into trades with clients. Because of this risk, FXCM needs to implement certain restrictions during news events.^ Exactly my point. FXCM (DD), Forex.com, and Oanda minimize their risk by using techniques against their clients. When you say minimize risk, you are specifically referring to losing money. If you are counter party to the trader, then aren't you always looking to win? If you lose when the client wins, you simply cannot state that you have the best...
In fairness, you skipped over my statement immediately following the one you quoted:

Quoting Jason Rogers
Additionally, we may take steps to mitigate the risk arising from market making more effectively by transferring your underlying account to our NDD offering. That means, we don't have to resort to the dealer intervention practices (re-quotes and excessive spread widening particularly during news events) which can occur with DD-only brokers, and you can have confidence in trading your FXCM account regardless of the account type you choose.
  • #9
  • May 27, 2016 5:32pm May 27, 2016 5:32pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
{quote} In fairness, you skipped over my statement immediately following the one you quoted: {quote}
Yes, but for those on the DD model, that would mean you DO RESORT to the dealer intervention techniques. The bottom line is, if they really want to regulate forex in the best interest of the traders, as they pretend to do

1. Every broker would be required to operate as an ECN, where client orders are either matched against one another or passed through to LPs. Brokers only earn money on commission.

2. Insure client funds

They don't do either of these things simply because they do not want retail forex to exist in the US. The UK does it right, Australia does it right, why can't the largest, most powerful country in the world do it right?
  • #10
  • May 27, 2016 7:30pm May 27, 2016 7:30pm
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} I've been trading well with a US broker (FXCM) for nearly a decade.
How much have you been trading with them? What time frame? I got refunds from them for being fined for slippage on about 20 trades. I also had to redefine my strategy to account for the spikes that occurred after they would fall about 20 pips off from the rest of the world, then spike all at once to catch up. If I tried to scalp, I would only get to do it about 3-5 times and they would freeze my entries. Perhaps you are not trading, but investing? Using some super high time frame and so you do not see it? It is well documented. Hopefully you don't get too screwed over. Oh, by the way, when they were Refco and went bankrupt, they kept everyone's money. So, I bailed pretty much immediately after they lost all that money. Now, who knows what the lenders will do to recover their loan? If it is like any other business in the world, you can believe you will be the one paying the bill. Good Luck.
You cannot be extraordinary by being normal
  • #11
  • May 27, 2016 7:51pm May 27, 2016 7:51pm
Quoting dkrock
{quote} How much have you been trading with them? What time frame? I got refunds from them for being fined for slippage on about 20 trades. I also had to redefine my strategy to account for the spikes that occurred after they would fall about 20 pips off from the rest of the world, then spike all at once to catch up. If I tried to scalp, I would only get to do it about 3-5 times and they would freeze my entries. Perhaps you are not trading, but investing? Using some super high time frame and so you do not see it? It is well documented. Hopefully...
The funny thing is FXCM is probably the best of the US brokers. As I keep stating, you are much better off trading offshore, since these regulations do absolutely nothing to benefit you. By taking advantage of the lower margin requirements, you are able to keep the majority of your trading capital in your own bank account where you are in control of it. That is the biggest advantage, not to mention my broker is an ECN and doesn't use any of the dealer intervention techniques which ALL US BROKERS are allowed to get away with, despite such strict regulations. They hurt the trader way more than they help.
  • #12
  • May 28, 2016 3:00am May 28, 2016 3:00am
Who is your broker Pipmaster?
  • #13
  • May 28, 2016 5:13am May 28, 2016 5:13am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The funny thing is FXCM is probably the best of the US brokers. As I keep stating, you are much better off trading offshore, since these regulations do absolutely nothing to benefit you. By taking advantage of the lower margin requirements, you are able to keep the majority of your trading capital in your own bank account where you are in control of it. That is the biggest advantage, not to mention my broker is an ECN and doesn't use any of the dealer intervention techniques which ALL US BROKERS are allowed to get away with, despite such...
Couldn't agree more with you. I trade with a broker with 1:500 leverage on a 25k account. Should I want to open similar pisitions with FXCM, I would need to risk 4 times more my own capital which considering what happened to FXCM during EUR/CHF is something no serious trader should do. At the same time, in general FXCM is a fairly good company, with some very good people I have been proud to meet.
  • #14
  • May 28, 2016 9:58am May 28, 2016 9:58am
I have traded with IBFX, Oanda, FXCM and some 10 other non US brokers.

Never lost a trade cause something i suspect my broker did.

The way things are painted here on FF, this could confuses the hell out of a new trader.

Anyway we are going with TD Ameritrade. I dont like these non-FX only brokers but thats the choice he made, letsee.
  • #15
  • May 28, 2016 10:47am May 28, 2016 10:47am
Quoting nasir.khan
I have traded with IBFX, Oanda, FXCM and some 10 other non US brokers. Never lost a trade cause something i suspect my broker did. The way things are painted here on FF, this could confuses the hell out of a new trader. Anyway we are going with TD Ameritrade. I dont like these non-FX only brokers but thats the choice he made, letsee.
Another market maker, dealing desk that trades against you

Jason Rogers openly admits in an earlier post, that they resort to dealing desk intervention to control risk. Any broker who is counter party to your trade loses money when you win. The closest analogy I can use is like betting on sports with a bookie, where the bookie had tricks up his sleeve to control the outcome. When using a DD broker, you are betting against them and THEY CONTROL THE SOFTWARE. How dumb are people, seriously?
  • #16
  • May 28, 2016 2:43pm May 28, 2016 2:43pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Another market maker, dealing desk that trades against you Jason Rogers openly admits in an earlier post, that they resort to dealing desk intervention to control risk. Any broker who is counter party to your trade loses money when you win. The closest analogy I can use is like betting on sports with a bookie, where the bookie had tricks up his sleeve to control the outcome. When using a DD broker, you are betting against them and THEY CONTROL THE SOFTWARE. How dumb are people, seriously?
I think all br0kers listed in FF (http://www.forexfactory.com/brokers.php) are market makers and their only interest is for their clients to lose money. So for them we are pigs and they are slaughter houses. In FF, representatives of all the FX slaughterhouses try to paint a better picture about their specific house, maybe it has a new painting on the wall, hot shower at 9pm every evening, left-overs from a gourmet restaurant occasionally thrown to visitors, but the fact of the matter remains that - they win only when we lose.

I personally have always liked the FXPIG approach. I am not their client since there are some better ones but at least they tell their clients what it is that they really sign up for and who on average they are - PIGS.

And you cannot actually blame these br0kers as well. Since as long as there are pigs, there will be a demand for slaughter houses. Without the pigs, there would be no FX brokers or stock brokers or futures brokers. And every one of us is a PIG, when we don't place stop-loss orders on the trades, when we always open positions against the trend, when we use 1:500 leverage and open maximum allowed position, when we run after bonuses, etc etc.

I try to be different. It is damn hard because we are all people and human psychology plays actually against us in the trading business. Every month, during the NFP I have a "pig day". That is the day when I open DEMO account with any of the brokers and I go mad, real mad and reckless. Fortunally I am a virtual pig, because on demo account they cannot extract my blood, flesh or my soul.

Long story short, if you have an edge, discipline and you know what you are doing, then even FXCM is good. If you are like 95% of the average traders, then you can open an account with a br0ker with zero spreads, zero commissions, no slippage, and 1 millisecond execution speed, but you still end up as a nice fat sausage on the plate of one of these FX broker guys.
  • #17
  • May 28, 2016 2:48pm May 28, 2016 2:48pm
Quoting nasir.khan
I have traded with IBFX, Oanda, FXCM and some 10 other non US brokers. Never lost a trade cause something i suspect my broker did. The way things are painted here on FF, this could confuses the hell out of a new trader. Anyway we are going with TD Ameritrade. I dont like these non-FX only brokers but thats the choice he made, letsee.
Does TD Ameritrade provide spot FX trading and if yes, what is the max leverage? I think they only provide FX futures, which allows you up to 1:25 leverage.

TD Ameritrade is actually fairly good br0ker for trading US stocks. I was a client of Datek in 2001 or 15 years ago when Armeritrader bought them. Solid guys, long-term.
  • #18
  • May 28, 2016 3:21pm May 28, 2016 3:21pm
Actually, Nasir, I checked TD Ameritrade for FX and I must tell you that you have no edge there. You would have a disadvantage in terms of commissions and also FX margin which stands only at 1:50. If you only want US based broker then I would rather choose Interactive Brokers. I have used their platform for futures options trading since 2005 and it is very good, especially for professional traders.

FX commission
Commission currency pairs trade in increments of 1,000 and are subject to a fixed-commission structure based in counter currency units. For example, the commission from a 1,000-lot EUR/USD trade would be USD $1 ($1 minimum and/or $0.10 per 1,000 units). The commission from a USD/JPY trade of 5,000 units would be JPY ¥90.

FX Margin
As of October 17, 2010, at 5 pm EDT, the maximum leverage on all major currency pairs is 50:1 and 20:1 on all exotic currency pairs
  • #19
  • May 28, 2016 3:46pm May 28, 2016 3:46pm
Quoting Borowikbo
{quote} I think all br0kers listed in FF (http://www.forexfactory.com/brokers.php) are market makers and their only interest is for their clients to lose money. So for them we are pigs and they are slaughter houses. In FF, representatives of all the FX slaughterhouses try to paint a better picture about their specific house, maybe it has a new painting on the wall, hot shower at 9pm every evening, left-overs from a gourmet restaurant occasionally thrown to visitors, but the fact of the matter remains that - they win only when we lose....
So true. I do have an edge, been profitable since 2010. The point I am trying to get across is simply when you are trading with a DD broker, even with an edge, you are at a major disadvantage. Their business model is for you to lose money and they control the software. I trade with an unregulated offshore broker but I trust them. Their spreads are razor thin, they earn money on my commission and I am profitable because there is no dealer intervention. I'm sure I could be as profitable at a US broker, but trading is tough enough, why would I want to worry about my broker using techniques against me. In addition, 85% of my forex capital remains in my own bank account as I only need to use 10% of the margin required at a US broker. Despite what is perceived to be the toughest regulations in the world, funds at US forex brokers are not protected so I prefer to keep the majority in my own bank. I have also heard numerous stories of profitable traders at these DD brokers being blacklisted so their accounts get closed and in some cases the broker crying foul play and not even paying out. The CFTC is so worried about reducing leverage and FIFO, when there are way more serious issues on the broker side which need to be addressed.
  • #20
  • May 28, 2016 3:53pm May 28, 2016 3:53pm
May I add, I would love to trade with a regulated broker in the UK or Australia, where my funds are protected. But the good ole US(while claiming to protect me) doesn't allow it.
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