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Before or after the fact?

  • #41
  • May 27, 2016 8:07am May 27, 2016 8:07am
Quoting simond2002
The only other pair I'm watching is AUDJPY, which has broken local support and is currently retracing in a flag. If bearish PA sets up I'll sell it. If not, I won't. Back to sleeping, or writing {image}
Lower sell already closed on scalp. Upper sell still running.

Gonna leave it there guys. I've stated my case on this issue.

All the best

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  • #42
  • May 27, 2016 3:18pm May 27, 2016 3:18pm
Quoting simond2002
If were going to trade our own account there comes a point when our own decision must trump that of those around us.
Totally agree. If I'm honest with myself, I believe that I've looked for mentors, systems, signal providers, etc to overcome the uncertainty inherent in trading, and also deflect responsibility for dealing with that uncertainty MYSELF; it also makes it easier to detach myself emotionally from individual trades if my own analysis isn't on the line. Taking responsibility is a sign of attaining trading maturity IMO. There's a good post on dealing with uncertainty and ambiguity here.
  • #43
  • May 27, 2016 3:42pm May 27, 2016 3:42pm
Quoting hanover
Taking responsibility is a sign of attaining trading maturity IMO. There's a good post on dealing with uncertainty and ambiguity here.
Thanks for the post, will print it out and take it away next week - week off, family holiday, head and eye break etc etc
  • #44
  • May 27, 2016 4:20pm May 27, 2016 4:20pm
if you ask a question,and average the answers you come close to the conlusion,but not always the result,the result will always be the average .
  • #45
  • Edited 8:40pm May 27, 2016 8:20pm | Edited 8:40pm
The problem with your opinion is that some of us don't use dead charts to trade. Some of us are more advanced, so we trade according to current conditions, technical and fundamental. Trading dead history to us is guessing. Trading live action is predicting. While you are busy waiting for price to cross some line in the sand, and guessing if it will bounce or punch through, I am measuring the sample size of current buying and selling and moving with price and could care less about your lines. There is no comparison in what we do, and so there is no such thing as before-the-fact in my world. That would be gambling to me. I prefer to predict. Big difference.

The other concept you bring up though is to limit the brainstorming of the forum. If you have been trading since 2011, then you know you don't have anyone to talk to about what you do. So, this is a meeting place for like-minded Forex traders to meet and discuss. Some ideas are more passionate than others, some are more dreamy, some are ignorant, and some are good. In any brainstorming scenario you want all ideas because you never know where they will lead. Unfortunately, the FF members come from a variety of backgrounds and talents, so some are not aware of how to properly brainstorm, and others are protesters I think, lol.

If you think you are going to find a real trading method on a free, global forum; you are going to be disappointed. Occasionally there is an idiot who gets close to sharing valuable information, but either realizes it and stops, or doesn't know how to get to the next level and stops. Anyway, can you log into the banks and freely access their trading arenas so they can show you what they do? No? But, you want us to freely show you? LOL. I can't help you anyway because I do not trade dead charts or pretend to know what tomorrow brings. I can make a chart my bitch though while the market is open and moving. The worst part though, for you, is I don't care if you believe me or not. I used to care, but thanks to meeting so many negative people in FF, things have changed. Good Luck
You cannot be extraordinary by being normal
  • #46
  • May 28, 2016 3:55am May 28, 2016 3:55am
Quoting dkrock
The problem with your opinion is that some of us don't use dead charts to trade. Some of us are more advanced, so we trade according to current conditions, technical and fundamental. Trading dead history to us is guessing. Trading live action is predicting. While you are busy waiting for price to cross some line in the sand, and guessing if it will bounce or punch through, I am measuring the sample size of current buying and selling and moving with price and could care less about your lines. There is no comparison in what we do, and so there is...
I have to go out today for a while, but you've raised some points here that I'd like to address, which I'll do later.
  • #47
  • May 28, 2016 8:19am May 28, 2016 8:19am
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Well said. Some traders have entry signals. The "before-the-fact analysis" was done LONG BEFORE THE SIGNAL WAS DESIGNATED A VALID ENTRY SIGNAL(ie backtesting /forward testing). Now the trader's job is to simply take the signal (trading on autopilot). To not take the signal would be to call himself a liar. These same traders may also surrender to the market. They may not set profit targets (putting the trader's wants ahead of the market's wants). They may simply stay in the trade until a signal in the opposite...


There are more or less 3 types of thread/trader in forex factory.


1. The thread where the op explores ideas with charts and analysis, and openly admits he/she is still learning
2. The thread where the op shows finished trades (which could be done with random entries) and implies he is a successful trader, mostly to fill the void in his/her ego
3. The thread where the trader makes calls and puts the balls on the line. Shows and uploads entry at the time of entry and shows exit later. And lets his/her performance - good or bad, speak for itself.

And yes if you are trading 5 min chart or lower it is hard to upload the chart in time.. But lets face it if you are good on 5 min or lower you are gonna also have plenty of 15min and higher trades and also longer term swing trades available to upload in good time. I never heard of a good ltf trader who didn't also take htf trades. So lets not make excuses.

If you aren't number 1 or 3, then you are hiding something. Which number are you?
  • #48
  • May 28, 2016 9:46am May 28, 2016 9:46am
I'm not sure whether or not this post was directed at me. Apologies if it wasn't, but I'll carry on with the assumption that it was because I think you've raised some interesting points.

Quoting dkrock
The problem with your opinion is that some of us don't use dead charts to trade. Some of us are more advanced, so we trade according to current conditions, technical and fundamental. Trading dead history to us is guessing. Trading live action is predicting. While you are busy waiting for price to cross some line in the sand, and guessing if it will bounce or punch through, I am measuring the sample size of current buying and selling and moving with price and could care less about your lines. There is no comparison in what we do, and so there is...
The whole guessing/predicting/gambling thing is a semantic argument. I for one do draw lines "in the sand". But there's no guesswork on my part when it comes to trading them. While you're busy unpacking your scales "measuring the sample size of current buying and selling and moving with price", I am busy watching the order-flow and trading in harmony with it. Just like you, I also "predict"; once I'm in the trade. I've no doubt there's a difference in what you and I do, but whether or not it's a "big" difference, I couldn't comment.

Quoting dkrock
The other concept you bring up though is to limit the brainstorming of the forum. If you have been trading since 2011, then you know you don't have anyone to talk to about what you do. So, this is a meeting place for like-minded Forex traders to meet and discuss. Some ideas are more passionate than others, some are more dreamy, some are ignorant, and some are good. In any brainstorming scenario you want all ideas because you never know where they will lead.
In any brainstorming scenario, sure, we want all ideas. But there needs to be a context - supply and demand trading, momentum crossovers, money management, whatever. With context, brainstorming is a highly useful tool, but without context, it's useless. I'd posit that filtering FF members (in any way we wish quite frankly, and on any topic, but in this particular instance by virtue of those displaying some limited "balls on the line" trading) it would actually encourage the act of members reaching out and meaningfully brainstorming, not limit it.
  • #49
  • May 28, 2016 12:32pm May 28, 2016 12:32pm
This topic sure touched a nerve!
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #50
  • May 28, 2016 6:16pm May 28, 2016 6:16pm
It doesn't matter before or after the fact... when you realize that 99% of FF posters are teenagers/retirees posting their demo trades and treating trading as a hobby only.
  • #51
  • May 28, 2016 8:44pm May 28, 2016 8:44pm
Quoting dkrock
Yeah, great idea to tell the ENTIRE world what you plan to do.
Do you think anyone out there really cares?
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #52
  • May 28, 2016 9:29pm May 28, 2016 9:29pm
Quoting dkrock
{quote} Yes, I most certainly do believe there are people out there who care. I was the guy with the biggest thread of followers in the Sure Fire Trading forum. Not only did people steal my indicators and sell them, use my templates for personal gain, but also the site owner tried to claim that everything I posted...words, indicators, templates...became his property. Hmm. Why do you think that was? Was it because no one cared???? If you are not familiar with that forum, it worked just like the OP of this thread wants FF to work, only it was a private...
Those thoughts never occurred to me.
Your point is understood.
Thank you.
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #53
  • May 29, 2016 4:18am May 29, 2016 4:18am
Quoting dkrock
{quote} Yes, I most certainly do believe there are people out there who care. I was the guy with the biggest thread of followers in the Sure Fire Trading forum. Not only did people steal my indicators and sell them, use my templates for personal gain, but also the site owner tried to claim that everything I posted...words, indicators, templates...became his property. Hmm. Why do you think that was? Was it because no one cared???? If you are not familiar with that forum, it worked just like the OP of this thread wants FF to work, only it was a private...
Corrupt as in it stopped working for you or just reposted in the forum with it's settings tinkered ? LOL that sounds bizarre .
  • #54
  • May 29, 2016 12:20pm May 29, 2016 12:20pm
Quoting TooSlow
{quote} Do you think anyone out there really cares?

Exactly, even if u spell out a successful way of trading to someone, the odds are low that they will be able to implement it successfully, unless it's not a discretionary approach, but then it would need constant tweaking anyway.
  • #55
  • May 29, 2016 2:30pm May 29, 2016 2:30pm
Quoting NaughtyPip
{quote} Exactly, even if u spell out a successful way of trading to someone, the odds are low that they will be able to implement it successfully, unless it's not a discretionary approach, but then it would need constant tweaking anyway.
Yea, good point. I remember watching an interview with a trader who’d been fortunate enough to be schooled/mentored by a close friend. The friend had taught the trader “everything he knew”, but the trader said it’d still taken him 5 grueling years to trade on his own two feet.
  • #56
  • May 31, 2016 9:52am May 31, 2016 9:52am
Quoting GEfx
I think that is a reasonable request. Here is a sample for the GBP/AUD. I am building a sell position now in one short term account with 2 open trades, with stop at b/e, while maintaining my buy positions in a second long term account. So, my short term positions flipped from long to short, and my long term positions remain long. My short target is an unspecified Fib level, and or the bottom of the grey area on the chart. If I can get to that I will probably exit the shorts and wait for the next move. A sample of my trading can be found in my trading...
Sorry but I haven't been following this thread since my post here, but I wanted to point out that the second point I made in the original post -- that the grey area would be squared up and covered by PA -- has largely occurred. There is a little more possible in this move down, and in addition, if the market can muster up the strength, it could square up the second, lower grey area below. So, the short trading this past week, while counter trend, was anticipated and traded. For some traders, it is important to create a plan, based on the structure of the market, and the work to trade PA as the structure and plan cooperate with one another. Good trading everyone!
  • #57
  • May 31, 2016 8:45pm May 31, 2016 8:45pm
So, here is the chart to follow up the post from earlier today. When compared to the first chart I posted, you can see the advanced thinking/planning is playing out regarding the move down to square up/retrace. If the intent of this thread was to identify the pros and cons of making this kind of advanced analysis available on FF, I can tell you that doing this on a regular basis is a strain on my time.
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  • #58
  • May 31, 2016 9:13pm May 31, 2016 9:13pm
dunno if these bfor or after the fact , base on simple ta .....
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  • #59
  • Jun 1, 2016 7:11am Jun 1, 2016 7:11am
Hi GEfx,

Dipping out of family holiday to make quick reply

Quoting GEfx
If the intent of this thread was to identify the pros and cons of making this kind of advanced analysis available on FF, I can tell you that doing this on a regular basis is a strain on my time.
Apologies if this is implied, it wasn't the intention. Intention was more to discuss this:

Quoting simond2002
traders who enter discussions here on FF, may take a quite forceful view on how and how not to trade, and yet are unable (or unwilling) to present any form of before-the-fact analysis to substantiate their position.
I've found myself getting into discussions that on the face of it are useful to have until it reaches the point that it's self-evident that unless traders are willing to illustrate their theories with some kind of before-the-fact example then the whole thing becomes conjecture.

Where this particular discussion goes is still an open road for me, but it's always good to correspond with traders who are beyond the "secrets phase" and a little more open-minded.
  • #60
  • Jun 1, 2016 8:24am Jun 1, 2016 8:24am
Quoting simond2002
Hi GEfx, Dipping out of family holiday to make quick reply {quote} Apologies if this is implied, it wasn't the intention. Intention was more to discuss this: {quote} I've found myself getting into discussions that on the face of it are useful to have until it reaches the point that it's self-evident that unless traders are willing to illustrate their theories with some kind of before-the-fact example then the whole thing becomes conjecture. Where this particular discussion goes is still an open road for me, but it's always good to correspond...
Got it! I understand and have had those discussions on FF in the past. I spent time on my trading journal here to document my thinking and approach, and now just direct people there when they ask for proof or illustration. Unfortunately, there are some who either won't take the time to review it, or ignore the information I've provided and cling to their unfounded beliefs. Oh well, such is life. I'll look in from time to time to see how this thread is developing. Good trading everyone!
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