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Trading without stop-losses

  • #421
  • May 2, 2016 12:11am May 2, 2016 12:11am
Quoting fredix
I'm not very good with the numbers but wouldn't it be the same than a SL at 400 pips on a 100000 account? The trade is lost anyway, right? This is just a guess because I use SL and risk to calculate the lot size. I can't live without a stop loss.
You're working pretty directly with numbers here...not the worst idea to make sure you understand 'em as well as possible..
"Holy Grail" exists - accepting where is the first step.
  • #422
  • May 3, 2016 5:51am May 3, 2016 5:51am
Quoting VaBikePacker
{quote} You're working pretty directly with numbers here...not the worst idea to make sure you understand 'em as well as possible..
this is why i never talk in pip
  • #423
  • May 5, 2016 2:06am May 5, 2016 2:06am
The more you learn the less you use Stoploss, or it gets smaller with time. Stoploss is just an account killer. If you don’t know how to trade you put a SL to save you from losing, it just decreases your Balance and is getting harder and harder to even go Breakeven. If you learn the Basics you will figure out the ways to save your account, if you don’t you have lost already and find yourself searching the forums again for solution.
Cheers
  • #424
  • May 5, 2016 3:58am May 5, 2016 3:58am
Quoting DwainUK
The more you learn the less you use Stoploss, or it gets smaller with time. Stoploss is just an account killer. If you dont know how to trade you put a SL to save you from losing, it just decreases your Balance and is getting harder and harder to even go Breakeven. If you learn the Basics you will figure out the ways to save your account, if you dont you have lost already and find yourself searching the forums again for solution. Cheers
Those who trade without a SL do so because their timing sucks. They continually get stopped out then blame the SL. Trades must have room to breath, but a SL is a must.
  • #425
  • May 5, 2016 5:53am May 5, 2016 5:53am
Quoting DwainUK
The more you learn the less you use Stoploss, or it gets smaller with time. Stoploss is just an account killer. If you dont know how to trade you put a SL to save you from losing, it just decreases your Balance and is getting harder and harder to even go Breakeven. If you learn the Basics you will figure out the ways to save your account, if you dont you have lost already and find yourself searching the forums again for solution. Cheers
Stoploss is a MUST use
  • #426
  • May 7, 2016 11:18pm May 7, 2016 11:18pm
I agree with Post 425 regarding the use of stop loss.
Quoting priceaction9
{quote} Stoploss is a MUST use
Mecrandie
  • #427
  • May 8, 2016 6:49pm May 8, 2016 6:49pm
trade using a stop loss is very important because it will make a stop loss we can minimize the risks well, for that we have to use a stop loss well and we need to be able to utilize stop loss with good and maximal
  • #428
  • May 9, 2016 6:11pm May 9, 2016 6:11pm
Amazing how we can get over 20 pages of newbies propagating the "rule" of using stop losses. Hard stop losses are only necessary if high leverage is used. If you dont rise beyond what is commonly taught you will never succeed in this business. There is no "one" way to trade successfully, but when 95% of newbies religiously regurgitate the same thing then that should tell you something.
  • #429
  • May 9, 2016 6:20pm May 9, 2016 6:20pm
Quoting loleno
Amazing how we can get over 20 pages of newbies propagating the "rule" of using stop losses. Hard stop losses are only necessary if high leverage is used. If you dont rise beyond what is commonly taught you will never succeed in this business. There is no "one" way to trade successfully, but when 95% of newbies religiously regurgitate the same thing then that should tell you something.
Exactly.
  • #430
  • May 9, 2016 9:31pm May 9, 2016 9:31pm
Quoting joldas
Hello, every one! i have a question that anyone trade without stop-losses, and successed? Trading without stop-loss can be done? has any opinion, plz comment here? thanks.
it wasting your money. better you donate it for me
  • #431
  • Edited 12:42am May 10, 2016 12:03am | Edited 12:42am
Unfortunately in trading, you need to test every assumption you make as the 'mantra' may just be downright wrong or simply relevant to a particular trading approach. The 2% logic, the must use hard stops...etc etc etc.., you name it........ all need to be tested in the context of your trading strategy. You may very well be victims of false assumptions.

The decision whether or not to use stops is a risk management decision that relates to your trading methodology. Unfortunately as soon as you introduce hard stops, by definition you introduce drawdowns to your performance. However a hard stop of some sort is a necessity when trade risk is significant in the context of overall trade capital......but if you are prepared to diversify where each trade and it's associated risk is minimal in the context of your overall trade capital, then you can start receiving benefits that your competitors are unable to capitalise on.

Utilising performance based trade exits that exit positions at minimum rather than maximum excursions from trade entry are a significant contributor to overall performance but can only be effectively applied when trading with low trade risk exposure.

For example a trader who trades a long only diversified portfolio of stocks may invest in say 20 stocks where each allocation represents 5% of the total portfolio. The maximum total risk of each position is therefore a 5% impact on the total portfolio where the stock price goes to $0. In these instances you can see that a hard stop is clearly not required as a 10% adverse movement may only amount to a total risk of 0.5% of the portfolio. Similarly those traders who trade a diversified portfolio (eg. where average trade risk amounts to say 0.1% to 0.25% of the portfolio) can afford to utilise alternative exit mechanisms that can considerably improve overall performance. For example exit measures such as bollinger exits or rotational exits are performance related exits as opposed to capital risk related exits and can significantly improve strategy returns with reduced drawdown exposure. You may be interested in hearing what some of the enlightened pro's say about this matter.

http://bettersystemtrader.com/029-alan-clement/

http://bettersystemtrader.com/037-ce...s-stop-losses/
  • #432
  • May 10, 2016 5:01am May 10, 2016 5:01am
I usually remove SL during high volatility and care about stop out level of course.
  • #433
  • May 10, 2016 6:05am May 10, 2016 6:05am
Copernicus, I fully agree there are many ways to reduce your risk exposure. Everywhere you hear you should us SL to minimize Risk. It’s the easiest way but not necessarily the best way.
  • #434
  • May 13, 2016 12:25pm May 13, 2016 12:25pm
It depends on your style. I know some people without SL that achieved success in forex, but myself i wouldn't do this. On the other hand, recognizing good SL level is an art.
  • #435
  • May 13, 2016 2:37pm May 13, 2016 2:37pm
Unless you are doing grid style martingale trading, else trading without stop loss will surely bankrupt your account sooner or later.
Pips Collector EA, No Martingale, No Grid
  • #436
  • May 14, 2016 3:49am May 14, 2016 3:49am
Quoting Prot23
I usually remove SL during high volatility and care about stop out level of course.
What if you are on the wrong side and the volatility pushes price 2x or 3x your original stop?
  • #437
  • May 31, 2016 9:03pm May 31, 2016 9:03pm
Quoting joldas
Hello, every one! i have a question that anyone trade without stop-losses, and successed? Trading without stop-loss can be done? has any opinion, plz comment here? thanks.
i know some people who trade stocks and leave their stop loss out of the market. the beauty of this is that you don't get stopped out from market fluctuations, and often their trades continue higher. if however the candle closes past the "mental" stop level (there is a stop loss, it's just not put in the market), the next candle (at opening) they close the trade. later i'm going to explore this. i suspect it would be a better strategy.

(side question: how many posts does one have to do before they get authorized to post qs?)
  • #438
  • May 31, 2016 10:09pm May 31, 2016 10:09pm
i am new and confused about stop loss. I shorted AUD/USD and the market went against me.
I adjusted my stop loss further to allow volatility and ended up losing 20% of my account.

Later i shorted twice on the EUR/USD with a tight stop loss (7 pips) and both were taken out and minutes later, the price went down 70pips.

I lost 35% of my live account in a month and i feel like a loser although i do not wish to give up learning to trade forex.
  • #439
  • May 31, 2016 10:45pm May 31, 2016 10:45pm
Quoting mishiertoo
i am new and confused about stop loss. I shorted AUD/USD and the market went against me. I adjusted my stop loss further to allow volatility and ended up losing 20% of my account. Later i shorted twice on the EUR/USD with a tight stop loss (7 pips) and both were taken out and minutes later, the price went down 70pips. I lost 35% of my live account in a month and i feel like a loser although i do not wish to give up learning to trade forex.
trade smaller position sizes until you work out your strategy
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
  • #440
  • May 31, 2016 11:10pm May 31, 2016 11:10pm
Quoting mishiertoo
i am new and confused about stop loss. I shorted AUD/USD and the market went against me. I adjusted my stop loss further to allow volatility and ended up losing 20% of my account. Later i shorted twice on the EUR/USD with a tight stop loss (7 pips) and both were taken out and minutes later, the price went down 70pips. I lost 35% of my live account in a month and i feel like a loser although i do not wish to give up learning to trade forex.
Yes. smaller positions. If you're losing that much, your trading volume is too high in correlation with your account balance.
"Holy Grail" exists - accepting where is the first step.
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