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The Big secret to trading success

  • #421
  • May 5, 2016 7:59am May 5, 2016 7:59am
Quoting MarkFxAnde
Actually we the traders have to acquire most powerful analyzing trade knowledge by learning , if we would like to achieve success from this market place very rapidly. but by and large traders are loser from this trading place due to lack of exact trading knowledge.
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  • #422
  • May 5, 2016 9:25am May 5, 2016 9:25am
The Rumpled One says: "There is a big difference between facts and opinions. I bet you think that the terms "trend", "support", "resistance" are facts. When in reality they are concepts and opinions. I would wager you have read or heard "The trend is your friend" at least once. Let me set the record straight: There is no trend. Trend exist only in the mind of the trader. You could point to a chart and show me the trend, but I could counter with a chart for the same instrument, on a different TF, and show you the trend is opposite what you think it is. Trend is a concept. On the other hand the current Daily high and Daily low, Weekly High & Weekly low are factual. Ask any trader what those values are and they will give you the same answer. All traders will point to the same values - no matter what time period chart they are looking at. To win at trading, you must be able to discern between facts and opinions."

Alright, time to debunk this other bit.

Points such as the 'daily high/low... etc' are objective reference points just as any indicator used to identify a 'trend' can be objectively defined and used as a reference point.

When you use such facts to inform a trading decision, you are imparting your own subjective opinions of these facts.

If you trade when you observe price breaking from a daily high or low and place your stoploss some distance away you are tacitly admitting to the following:
1. 'I expect price to move in my favour'.
2. 'When my stoploss point is reached I no longer expect price to move in my favour'.

Ladies and gentlemen, these are opinions and they are opinions of the future no less.

One more thing worth pointing out here is that he seems to enshrine reference points like daily/weekly high/lows while thinking less of trend trading and Support/Resistance. Do people not realize that trend followers use channels created from daily highs and lows (also known as Donchian channels or Support and Resistance channels) to identify trends?

Come on Forex Factory. Thinking shouldn't be difficult.
  • #423
  • May 5, 2016 10:10am May 5, 2016 10:10am
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Whether you made money or not today, this is for you ( guys only!)
  • #424
  • Edited 4:07pm May 5, 2016 3:52pm | Edited 4:07pm
As i posted some posts back , trend is the very reason why the vast majority over time loose . just capturing a move from point a to point b , would in its self re program ones self from sub conscious bias to a realism .

As a intraday trader eradicate the word trend.
  • #425
  • May 5, 2016 4:31pm May 5, 2016 4:31pm
Quoting diceman555
As a intraday trader eradicate the word trend.
Really?

This is YM/DJI from earlier this week.
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  • #426
  • May 6, 2016 1:08am May 6, 2016 1:08am
Quoting medici
{quote} Really? This is YM/DJI from earlier this week. {image}
no of coarse price trends,

but my point being is that the word trend confuses most ,its every where ,it gives a feeling of comfort, security and creates a confused herd ready for slaughter.trend is very misleading.

for those who understand the structure of price trend is certainly ther friend ,trend is individual to a single viewer and yet it is banded together as a group a herd.and if we all follow this trend trading we can all win .entering into a trend is no diferent to trying to enter at top and bottoms for the majority.
  • #427
  • May 6, 2016 3:33am May 6, 2016 3:33am
Quoting diceman555
{quote} no of coarse price trends, but my point being is that the word trend confuses most ,its every where ,it gives a feeling of comfort, security and creates a confused herd ready for slaughter.trend is very misleading. for those who understand the structure of price trend is certainly ther friend ,trend is individual to a single viewer and yet it is banded together as a group a herd.and if we all follow this trend trading we can all win .entering into a trend is no diferent to trying to enter at top and bottoms for the majority.
Ah, I'm relieved Intraday traders who understand the structure of price trends may use the word trend
  • #428
  • May 6, 2016 3:57am May 6, 2016 3:57am
Just started reading "Wall Street and the Wilds" by AW Dimock, written in 1915.

Dimock was a big market maker in the Gold pit and hardly a chapter goes by without talking about MANIPULATION. He was doing it, others were doing it, almost everyone was trying to do it to one form or another. And others were trying to spot it and then go with it (the movement of the manipulators).

Remember Livermore's famous quote - there's nothing new on Wall Street. He was referring to all the games people play etc. The quote still stands today and it will stand in 100 years because Livermore's was saying people don't change - there will always be tricksters and fools operating in the market. Our job as retail traders is to spot the games of the tricksters and make sure we're not fools. Do that and your account WILL grow, the only question is by how much.

As others have said on this threat, 'rigging' is probably the wrong work, manipulators is the right one.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #429
  • May 6, 2016 4:28am May 6, 2016 4:28am
Quoting diceman555
{quote} no of coarse price trends, but my point being is that the word trend confuses most ,its every where ,it gives a feeling of comfort, security and creates a confused herd ready for slaughter.trend is very misleading. for those who understand the structure of price trend is certainly ther friend ,trend is individual to a single viewer and yet it is banded together as a group a herd.and if we all follow this trend trading we can all win .entering into a trend is no diferent to trying to enter at top and bottoms for the majority.
A few things you said worth picking up on here -

".... the word trend confuses most ,its every where ,it gives a feeling of comfort, security and creates a confused herd ready for slaughter.trend is very misleading. for those who understand the structure of price trend is certainly ther friend ,trend is......"

I don't think anyone who is still learning the ropes can be lulled into a false sense of security merely by semantics because as soon as people begin to trade the first thing we learn is that there is little comfort and security in the markets, in fact, it is one of the most adverse environments we can expose ourselves to. The word ' trend ' therefore can and should be used as a template for how best to trade. First however, the meaning behind the word has to be determined, and personally, there is nothing difficult about this, for it is simply the price movement which carries the overall momentum with it. Now this can be on a 10 second time frame, or it can be on a Daily time frame. As long as we enter the market with the momentum already behind us, we stand a greater chance of our trades being winning ones than if we were to trade off of perceived support, against the momentum with the hope of catching the bottom, which is what so many traders do. With that in mind, it is not the herd that is confused, because the herd is trading with the trend/momentum. It is the trader who is constantly attempting to trade against the herd who is confused.

" .entering into a trend is no diferent to trying to enter at top and bottoms for the majority."[/quote]

This may be true, but it is the job of each and everyone of us to ensure that we can see a difference, because unless we can, then there is no hope of extracting a steady income out of the market place. It is for this reason that I started this thread, to encourage traders with lesser experience than some of us, that their best chance of achieving success in this business is to identify momentum, and to trade with it rather than against it, which people tend to do when they have missed out on a move and so try to compensate by trading into it rather than wait for a pullback to trade with it. It is the ' vengeance' mentality, trading as an individual, against the herd, that spells death for most traders. We all do it, especially when we are inexperienced, but we have to learn not to, and that is the key to this game.

I was going to mention the importance of first of all establishing Support and resistance for the day/hour whatever, as that is important especially for ranging markets, but enough said by me in this post I think
  • #430
  • May 6, 2016 4:48am May 6, 2016 4:48am
Good morning guys

My name is Scharlotte from South Africa. Ive just started learning how to trade, as we all know Forex trading or should i say the market its self its not really well known in my country, people that know of it keep it to themselves. am very new in this and from what Ive been reading so for in this chat Ive realized that it would really be wise to get a mentor someone that's experienced, that can help me understand the market better. if there is such a person willing to help me out teach me how to trade wisely and not emotionally please do reply...
  • #431
  • May 6, 2016 5:27am May 6, 2016 5:27am
Quoting Scharlotte
Good morning guys My name is Scharlotte from South Africa. Ive just started learning how to trade, as we all know Forex trading or should i say the market its self its not really well known in my country, people that know of it keep it to themselves. am very new in this and from what Ive been reading so for in this chat Ive realized that it would really be wise to get a mentor someone that's experienced, that can help me understand the market better. if there is such a person willing to help me out teach me how to trade wisely and not emotionally...
Hi Scharlotte, and welcome.

You may find someone willing to mentor you here, but I doubt it. Also, in order for someone to help you, this person has to really know what they are doing, otherwise it will only be detrimental to your progress if you start taking on misplaced or erroneous information. Most of us learnt how to trade by studying charts, reading some basic material to know which indicators are the most widely used and that sort of thing, Gradually, you will begin piecing things together for yourself, but it is a slow process which cannot be hurried. I was where you are now nearly 10 years ago and I still have much to learn, and others here have been trading a lot longer than I have and they still have much to learn.

Should you pay for a mentor? Well, I'm probably not qualified to answer that question as I never had anyone advise me, but I would say that you shouldn't, though others reading this are free to advise you otherwise if they have had a positive experience from being mentored.

There is some good stuff here on forex factory though for you to get started with, and biased as I am, may I point you to a couple of my other threads, especially the ' Trader's Academy' thread which contains charts and a whole bundle of great posts from a variety of traders. This thread is also well worth you looking through for the same reason

May i wish you well on your journey to trading success, and the one piece of advice I would give you above all else is, don't be in a hurry, this game is not as easy as it seems at the outset and it will most likely take you a few years to get to grips with it., but, and this is important, it can be learnt.
  • #432
  • May 6, 2016 6:05am May 6, 2016 6:05am
Hello all,
this is a very interesting discussion.
Trend is what most of the people is struggling with, indeed is a very misleading word: trend means tendency, so something that is projected unto the future. It is a common point of human nature to always think to the future in the vain attempt to predict it.
So what happens is that the crowds always try to predict what will happen analyzing a tool that is showing only the past: our charts.
Then someone spots a down trend on a given tf, thereafter they shift to a lower tf spotting an up move: at this point for someone the lower tf is anticipating a trend change on the higher tf, for someone else it is just a retracement that will lead to a pull back off the higher down trend resistance. After the fact one of them will be proved to be right.
All this is absolutely crazy and just mirrors how the common way of thinking of most of the people is far away from the way market works.
First of all it should be better not to speak of trends but waves, this is how price moves; as someone else has already told price moves from point A to point B but it is not a linear move, it is a wave, so ordinary trend lines are not the best tool to spot that move.
Second, if you can spot at the same moment in time a down wave on a given tf and an up wave on a different given tf, what does this tell you? how this can be possible? why trends change? why a trendline sometimes holds and someother does not?
These are some of the many "whys" of market behaviour upon which many traders should work on, forgetting all the bullshit that constantly rounds everybody: they might find something that will change everything.
  • #433
  • May 6, 2016 6:33am May 6, 2016 6:33am
Absolutely different understanding of the market to come. In all spheres of activity taking place the revolution after years of stagnation. Why do we use trading methods that have been written for many years in the past? Why all the traders do not try to find something completely new?
Everyone says that you need to constantly evolve, to learn. How about it, not just to learn what is out of date, it has become a rarity, and take a step forward to a new understanding of the market. new trading techniques.
I believe that when a trader starts trading, read a book, chat with other traders, this situation covers its thinking in terms of the theory and methods.
We need to think more broadly. I'm assuming that is closer to the truth are intuitive traders who are trying to understand the market without using technical analysis.
The human mind can operate probabilistically. That is to say, to think, given the probability distribution on a subconscious level. It is given to us by nature.
Now I'm trying to understand the many and rethink. I want to take a step forward, but so far I have for system bars.
Where is my mind?
  • #434
  • May 6, 2016 6:51am May 6, 2016 6:51am
Quoting cat
{quote} Hi Scharlotte, and welcome. You may find someone willing to mentor you here, but I doubt it. Also, in order for someone to help you, this person has to really know what they are doing, otherwise it will only be detrimental to your progress if you start taking on misplaced or erroneous information. Most of us learnt how to trade by studying charts, reading some basic material to know which indicators are the most widely used and that sort of thing, Gradually, you will begin piecing things together for yourself, but it is a slow process which...
This is a very honest post.
I too have discovered and learnt everything by myself and it took me years; would I liked to pay for a good mentor? I can say for sure yes, because I would have saved a lot of time and struggles; unfortunately I did not find anyone to rely upon.
In this environment there are a lot of claimers and bullshit sellers, so is not that easy to find someone you can trust on;
On the other side is very difficult to find a good trader willing to share his very hard work with a stranger for nothing: all the work that he has done to succeed has a value, a big value, and it would be a real shame to give it out to anyone: it must be a strong reason to give for nothing, like someone in serious difficulties but that demonstrates to deserve such a gift, or a close friend asking for help.
What I've noticed is that the most of the newbies are not willing to pay a dime for their education and this is not because they do not have money to spend, for they blow a new account day in and day out; the reason is that they are not seriously commited to learn, they just want to have fun and at the end they get what they want, but they will never become good traders.
So the answer is that each one must choose the way he wants: in any case everything is possible, you can do it by yourself or you can find a good mentor, it is just a matter to know what do you want and want it.
  • #435
  • May 6, 2016 7:43am May 6, 2016 7:43am
Quoting Carry
Absolutely different understanding of the market to come. In all spheres of activity taking place the revolution after years of stagnation. Why do we use trading methods that have been written for many years in the past? Why all the traders do not try to find something completely new? Everyone says that you need to constantly evolve, to learn. How about it, not just to learn what is out of date, it has become a rarity, and take a step forward to a new understanding of the market. new trading techniques. I believe that when a trader starts trading,...
Very correct! Think out of the box, "think different"!! and try to go far beyond your charts: charts are mirroring what already has happened; the truth is beyond them.....and please, do not think to fundamentals, you are thinking well, use your mind and get out of the crowd.
  • #436
  • May 6, 2016 7:51am May 6, 2016 7:51am
Quoting strongtrader
{quote} in any case everything is possible, you can do it by yourself or you can find a good mentor, it is just a matter to know what do you want and want it.
thanks for the advice i guess it depends on how bad i want to succeed.
  • #437
  • May 6, 2016 8:25am May 6, 2016 8:25am
Quoting Scharlotte
{quote} thanks for the advice i guess it depends on how bad i want to succeed.
Right: I will quote a post that I will never forget, it belongs from a person I estimate a lot:

"A young man asked Socrates the secret of success. Socrates told the young man to meet him near the river the next morning.

They met the next morning.

Socrates asked the young man to walk with him towards the river.

When the water got up to their neck, Socrates took the young man by surprise and ducked him into the water.

The man struggled to get out but Socrates was strong and kept him there until he started turning blue.

The young man struggled hard and finally managed to get out and the first thing he did was gasp and took a deep breath.

Socrates asked. "What did you want the most when you were under water?" The man replied, "Air".

Socrates said, "That's the secret to success. When you want success as badly as you wanted air, you will get it."

"There is no other secret." "
  • #438
  • Edited 9:52am May 6, 2016 8:44am | Edited 9:52am
Quoting strongtrader
Trend is what most of the people is struggling with, indeed is a very misleading word: trend means tendency, so something that is projected unto the future.
Quite the opposite. 'Trends' can only be recognized by observing the difference between a recent point and a more distant point. Both of these exist in the past and both are mere observations of what has happened with no implications for the future.
Quote
It is a common point of human nature to always think to the future in the vain attempt to predict it. So what happens is that the crowds always try to predict what will happen analyzing a tool that is showing only the past: our charts. Then someone spots a down trend on a given tf, thereafter they shift to a lower tf spotting an up move: at this point for someone the lower tf is anticipating a trend change on the higher tf, for someone else it is just a retracement
Yes. The subjective nature of 'trends' often lead to them being used to justify already rooted opinions rather than inform objective analysis. Anyone can see any trend in any direction if he looks hard enough.
Quote
why trends change? why a trendline sometimes holds and someother does not? These are some of the many "whys" of market behaviour upon which many traders should work on, forgetting all the bullshit that constantly rounds everybody: they might find something that will change everything.
Asking 'why' presupposes causality.

I observe that the desire to understand the 'why' behind price swings is not a leading indicator for profitability.

I observe that the traders with decades-long track records of outstanding performance tend to trade with the 'trend' regardless of whether or not they really understand why it works the way it does.

I report that if a Process has a positive expectancy then following it will produce profitability given a significant length of time. Knowing 'why' is optional.
  • #439
  • May 6, 2016 8:51am May 6, 2016 8:51am
Quoting strongtrader
{quote} When you want success as badly as you wanted air, you will get it." "There is no other secret." "
wow that really hit home
  • #440
  • May 6, 2016 9:08am May 6, 2016 9:08am
Quoting strongtrader
{quote} Right: I will quote a post that I will never forget, it belongs from a person I estimate a lot: "A young man asked Socrates the secret of success. Socrates told the young man to meet him near the river the next morning. They met the next morning. Socrates asked the young man to walk with him towards the river. When the water got up to their neck, Socrates took the young man by surprise and ducked him into the water. The man struggled to get out but Socrates was strong and kept him there until he started turning blue. The young man struggled...
words can be very tricky

suc·cess
səkˈses/
noun

  1. the accomplishment of an aim or purpose.
    "the president had some success in restoring confidence"
    synonyms:favorable outcome, successfulness, successful result, triumph; Hollywood ending
    "the success of the scheme"

    1. the attainment of popularity or profit.
      "the success of his play"
      synonyms:prosperity, affluence, wealth, riches, opulence"the trappings of success"
    2. a person or thing that achieves desired aims or attains prosperity.
      "I must make a success of my business"

you can call become good trader a sucess or sometimes quit trading is sucess or sometimes being not dead is sucess.so dont take words single directiın

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