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I was fleeced by my broker and I have proof!

  • #81
  • Apr 11, 2016 10:49am Apr 11, 2016 10:49am
Quoting BSFilter
To be honest, I really don't want to get involved in this, I don't care about fleecing, shilling, whatever you want to call it. But I'd still like someone to explain to me how the swap can increase over 400 times overnight? The only thing I can offer on short notice is my JPY trades at the same time, adjusted for the OPs 0.12 lot size, on Pepperstone {image}
Don't worry man, I'm not coming at you or anything. I just want to see a clearer picture. When it comes to rollover rates, there are two methods brokers use to calculate their rollover fees. One is the "end-of-day" rate. They'll only use the last quote on the LIBOR rate and adjust it once a day. Others will calculate it real-time throughout the day. I know OANDA does that or, at least, I think they do, lol. Their website says they do.

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When it comes to FXCM, I'm unsure how they do it.
  • #82
  • Apr 11, 2016 10:56am Apr 11, 2016 10:56am
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} Don't worry man, I'm not coming at you or anything. I just want to see a clearer picture. When it comes to rollover rates, there are two methods brokers use to calculate their rollover fees. One is the "end-of-day" rate. They'll only use the last quote on the LIBOR rate and adjust it once a day. Others will calculate it real-time throughout the day. I know OANDA does that or, at least, I think they do, lol. Their website says they do. {image} When it comes to FXCM, I'm unsure how they do it.

No worries man, not taking any offence at your responses

I'm fully aware of how swaps are calculated, just still waiting for someone to tell me how it can increase from 0.04 to over 17 in one day...
  • #83
  • Apr 11, 2016 10:58am Apr 11, 2016 10:58am
Quoting BSFilter
{quote} No worries man, not taking any offence at your responses I'm fully aware of how swaps are calculated, just still waiting for someone to tell me how it can increase from 0.04 to over 17 in one day...
I would say that the spike in the LIBOR rate triggered it. The difference(s) between FXCM's charge and other brokers' charges really can't be known unless we hear from others at other brokerages who experienced (or didn't) the same thing.

Edit: Here's why you didn't experience it at Pepperstone:

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Swap rates are released weekly by their financial institutions. The spike may have occurred before Pepperstone received the rate and simply recovered before Pepperstone clients could feel the effects.
  • #84
  • Apr 11, 2016 11:06am Apr 11, 2016 11:06am
Quoting Bilstein
Y'all need to face reality. If OP had been PAID that rollover fee, he would have never questioned it. It has nothing to do with "corporate shilling." It has nothing to do with "broker conspiracy." It has nothing to do with "being fleeced." It's just a case of someone losing money on something unexpected that they obviously don't understand. Notice how there aren't dozens of other threads of people complaining about the same thing? It's ONE POSTER pointing it out on a thread with a paltry 2 pages.

I'm starting the think you work for FXCM or something. All facts support FXCM being a dishonest broker. They've had numerous complaints, fines and bailouts. I don't understand how you can back such a broker. You are completely missing the point here. It's like you're saying MT4 is not even part of the FXCM. IT's a huge part! MT4 is one of the most widely used pieces of software for trading and FXCM (the largest broker in the world) can't even get it working correctly.

You said this about my swap rates.... "I agree that the rollover fee is a little shocking"

A little shocking?! I would say pretty much unheard of. This type of comment shows me you ether work for FXCM or you're just an incredibly naive trader. You were mean so I thought I mine as well be. If you don't have any proof that other brokers swap fees didn't change on 3/31 then why even comment here? I have proof and you can even check for yourself that OANDA's EJ swap rate did not change. Check it here! https://www.oanda.com/forex-trading/analysis/historical-rates

The JPY rate changed overnight by just 3X. That's a fact. What's also fact is I had an increase of 4360% on my swap fee. See how things don't add up?

Imagine if I had 1 standard lot on that trade? That would be more then $170 for each of my trades. A jump from $0.04 to $17.48 is robbery. I didn't dispute the trade because I spoke to at least 2 reps about these 2 swaps on the phone and they defended them. If this was happening on the phone of course if disputed them I would lose my case.

Do you really want to stay with a broker that's doing this to clients? Yes, you haven't had something like this happen to you yet. Do you really want to take the chance though? Trust me, it's only a matter of time and with how closed minded and unproductive you are I really hope it does.

I say "fleeced" because of.... 1.my swap fees that FXCM defended and 2 price manipulation on my 1st server where 2-4 pips were not being accounted for.

You didn't think I would cover my bases before posting on FF? You think I'm just some trader noob making crazy allegations about FXCM? All I'm trying to do here is warn people about FXCM threw my personal experience with them.
  • #85
  • Apr 11, 2016 11:12am Apr 11, 2016 11:12am
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} I would say that the spike in the LIBOR rate triggered it.
Sorry mate, where did the JPY LIBOR rate spike +400% on that day (considering it is a daily rate)?
  • #86
  • Apr 11, 2016 11:19am Apr 11, 2016 11:19am
Quoting Cubbybgood
{quote} I'm starting the think you work for FXCM or something. All facts support FXCM being a dishonest broker. Numerous complaints, fines and bailouts. I don't understand how you can back such a broker. You are completely missing the point here. It's like you're saying MT4 is not even part of the FXCM. IT's a huge part! MT4 is one of the most widely used pieces of software for trading and FXCM (the largest broker in the world) can't even get it working correctly. You said this about my swap rates.... "I agree that the rollover fee is a little shocking"...
The problem with your experience is that you've already formulated a bias without seeking to understand the underlying cause. I do not work for FXCM, that's just ridiculous. Hell, I never even insulted you for switching brokers, if you felt uncomfortable at FXCM and they weren't satisfactorily servicing you, switch brokers. Who cares?

What I think about MT4 is completely irrelevant to the conversation. However, I'd be remiss to say that you and your "11 years as a trader" (which you felt the need to mention 2-3 times already) had no concept of the spike in the Yen overnight lending rate and needed a "naive trader" like me to plop in here and explain it to you. I even conceded that FXCM's swap rates may not be competitive enough to meet your needs. I literally agreed with you. You're angry because all that "11 years of experience" you have and you don't understand that the rollover spike happened because of the spike in the Yen overnight lending rate. What FXCM charged you as a result of that spike is either "good" or "bad" for you but at the end of the day, there's an observable cause.

You want me to check it at OANDA? I tried last night, unfortunately, this is what I got (and still get) when I select April 1st, 2016 as the requested date of inquiry.

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I have experienced what you experienced before. The difference is, I run a business which comes with inherent risks. I don't toss my cookies on a forum every time something unexpected - whether the broker's fault or my own - happens. If it was enough to make you switch brokers, as I said before, you're entitled to that. All I did was explain the "why." Just because you're obsessed with your image as an "11-year-trader" and are scared of being referred to as a "noob" doesn't make the fact that brokers base rollover fees on LIBOR rates and market volatility false. If you had as much "experience" as you claim you do, you'd understand the why.

But the why isn't important to people like you. You just want to come here, cause a stink, understand virtually nothing, then get all the other idiots angry that they can't make a living doing this to jump on your bandwagon so you can feel better about yourself. Also, I didn't DEFEND the price discrepancies, in fact, I admitted to experiencing them myself. Difference between us? I remedied the problem as opposed to coming on a forum and looking like a crybaby over a petty $34.00.
  • #87
  • Apr 11, 2016 11:24am Apr 11, 2016 11:24am
Quoting BSFilter
{quote} Sorry mate, where did the JPY LIBOR rate spike +400% on that day (considering it is a daily rate)?
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  • #88
  • Apr 11, 2016 11:32am Apr 11, 2016 11:32am
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} {image}
Ahhh, what are you trying to show us there mate? Because it sure doesn't show a 400% change in one day.

Maybe this makes it a little clearer...
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  • #89
  • Edited 11:51am Apr 11, 2016 11:36am | Edited 11:51am
Quoting BSFilter
{quote} Ahhh, what are you trying to show us there mate? Because it sure doesn't show a 400% change in one day. Maybe this makes it a little clearer... {image}

It's showing the same thing. I mentioned earlier, the rates you see aren't going to match what your broker charges or pays you. Brokers, as I mentioned before, have leeway with what they charge as rollover. In OP's case, FXCM charged him way too much for his liking, I see nothing wrong with that. However, it doesn't negate the fact that it happened because of the spike in the overnight lending rate. As with Peperstone, who receives their rates weekly there are other contributing factors as to why other brokers may or may not have experienced the squeeze. Again, I never said that OP was wrong about his dissatisfaction, I merely pointed to why.

Edit: Picture of the spike, in one day. The percentage increase or decrease isn't going to correlate with your broker's rollover fees.

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  • #90
  • Apr 11, 2016 11:51am Apr 11, 2016 11:51am
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} It's showing the same thing. I mentioned earlier, the rates you see aren't going to match what your broker charges or pays you. Brokers, as I mentioned before, have leeway with what they charge as rollover. In OP's case, FXCM charged him way too much for his liking, I see nothing wrong with that. However, it doesn't negate the fact that it happened because of the spike in the overnight lending rate. As with Peperstone, who receives their rates weekly there are other contributing factors as to why other brokers may or may not have experienced...

Bilistein, Clearly likes and wants to get taken advantage of by his broker. Lets leave him to it.

Are you Serious? "I even conceded that FXCM's swap rates may not be competitive enough to meet your needs."

They are not even close to being competitive! How can you defend that swap increase and just blow it off like it's completely normal!? That rate you show was only a 300% increase. I had over 4000%. That's broker robbery buddy.

Everyone here. Just let this guy get taken advantage of by his broker.

I've now just band him from the thread as he clearly doesn't care what his broker does or WILL DO to him. Good by and good luck Billstein.
  • #91
  • Apr 11, 2016 11:54am Apr 11, 2016 11:54am
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} Brokers, as I mentioned before, have leeway with what they charge as rollover.
Totally agree, they can charge what they like for spreads, swaps and commissions. But mate, if you think calling a sudden 400% markup on a variable charge is "leeway".....???

Quote
FXCM closely tracks and clearly displays rollover rates. Please be advised, interest rates are provided to FXCM by multiple liquidity providers. Every effort is made to display rollover rates one day before they are posted to your account. However, during times of extreme market volatility, rates may change intraday.

Strange how smaller brokers can manage to only adjust swaps on a daily/weekly basis.
  • #92
  • Apr 11, 2016 12:54pm Apr 11, 2016 12:54pm
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} Now think, if FXCM were the "shady market maker on the other side causing traders to lose money" how did they lose all that money trading against their clients? .
That argument is irrelevant. Who (and WHY) in their right mind would have short positions on a pegged pair ? Nobody unless they're suicidal and wanna die a slow death by paper cut swaps. They DO trade against their clients and there's nothing wrong with that. They would have needed to trade against the SNB by having shorts to cover their clients'longs. It's just ridiculous to even bring this as an argument.

LE Where the fukk is the Jason FXCM character? They sending trolls to derail the discussion by belittling the facts and pulling other facts out of their asses. WTF.
Best regards, Zef
  • #93
  • Edited 4:24pm Apr 11, 2016 1:08pm | Edited 4:24pm
Quoting Bilstein
It's ONE POSTER pointing it out on a thread with a paltry 2 pages.
Sorry Bilstein, that's not the case, and I also don't get why you are trying to belittle this thread and its content. There's a lot of understanding and support for this case because this broker has made a lot of traders very p.o.. You can be a bad trader, and be angry at your broker...wanting to wash your hands somewhere because you simply made some terribly bad trades....this is one of the points you are implying. I don't know if you read this thread in detail, but most of the examples that have popped up, are not related to bad trades. It's the broker's processes. There have been plenty of people from this forum echoing this sentiment....not just "ONE POSTER" as you write. (Really, one poster?? It has been at the top of this chart for days...) You can go to any proper forum (unlike those that delete and modify threads ) and virtually all of them have something along these lines when it comes to this one. Are all the stories true? We can always give them the benefit of the doubt, but isn't it funny how soooooooooo many traders end up having the same conclusion about this broker? Yes it is. They must all be bad traders.
  • #94
  • Apr 11, 2016 1:42pm Apr 11, 2016 1:42pm
Quoting ZeF
{quote} That argument is irrelevant. Who (and WHY) in their right mind would have short positions on a pegged pair ? Nobody unless they're suicidal and wanna die a slow death by paper cut swaps. They DO trade against their clients and there's nothing wrong with that. They would have needed to trade against the SNB by having shorts to cover their clients'longs. It's just ridiculous to even bring this as an argument. LE Where the fukk is the Jason FXCM character? They sending trolls to derail the discussion by belittling the facts and pulling...
don't want to be off, just remembered...
in Hungary ( I am from ) the largest bank ( also decent regional presence in Central-Eastern EU) had an absolute return fund loaded up on EURCHF...they supposed that was the ultimate risk free carry trade, just had to collect swaps...until peg went away, and in a day 18% of the fund too!
So why couldn't FXCM just lose as easily, after all supposed or not I am sure they take most case the other side of the trades, perhaps hedging total positions end of day, or not.
That SNB decision haven't only effect little retail guys, but lots of others too.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #95
  • Apr 11, 2016 2:00pm Apr 11, 2016 2:00pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} don't want to be off, just remembered... in Hungary ( I am from ) the largest bank ( also decent regional presence in Central-Eastern EU) had an absolute return fund loaded up on EURCHF...they supposed that was the ultimate risk free carry trade, just had to collect swaps...until peg went away, and in a day 18% of the fund too! So why couldn't FXCM just lose as easily, after all supposed or not I am sure they take most case the other side of the trades, perhaps hedging total positions end of day, or not. That SNB decision haven't only effect...
Your bank was long on EC, as were the sheep who lost money on Jan'15. Troll was suggesting FXCM should have been short.

Whoever has any action on pegged pairs, deserve to lose their shirts off anyway. That's karma.
Best regards, Zef
  • #96
  • Apr 11, 2016 4:40pm Apr 11, 2016 4:40pm
Hi Cubbybgood,

Sorry for not responding sooner. I was out of the office last Friday.

Quoting Cubbybgood
I know starting this thread will upset FXCM.
Not at all. This is one of many examples which show you don't know us as well as you think you do.

I am grateful to you for starting this discussion, because it's clear from your posts and the posts of some others here that there are still some misconceptions about FXCM. It's great to have this opportunity to set the record straight for you and everyone else reading this thread.

Quoting Cubbybgood
FXCM is hurting right now. They have been bailed out by Leucadia National Corp multiple times. It's obvious that FXCM is in a lot of debt and trying to find ways to pay off it's lenders/shareholders.
Since FXCM is a publicly-traded company, the details of our loan from Leucadia are well known. By contrast, most other forex brokers are privately-held companies, so it's hard to know how much debt they have on their books or the state of their finances.

We believe in making our financials transparent so clients and potential traders know about the performance and health of FXCM as a company. Last month, our CEO Drew Niv provided this update in an interview with Profit & Loss magazine:

We're continuing with our publicly disclosed plan to sell various assets to pay back that debt. Specifically, were selling most of our institutional businesses in order to focus on our core retail business.

Operationally, our account numbers are healthy, people are continuing to sign up with us and we did 10% more volume in 2015 than we did in 2014, despite selling our subsidiaries in Japan and Hong Kong.

This should come as no surprise to traders who know the latest financial data from the CFTC show forex traders continue to have more money on deposit with FXCM than any other US-regulated broker.

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Quoting Cubbybgood
Started at ATC Brokers and forced to move to FXCM... I originally opened an account at ATC Brokers. Great broker and liked them a lot! If you saw or heard in the news, they went bankrupt because of a high profile lawsuit. Since ATC Brokers is a 3rd party company to FXCM. This means my funds were actually deposited at FXCM but used ATC's platform, spreads, tech support and commission structure. FXCM claims ATC used their spread feed. To my knowledge, this is not correct. If you pull the brokers platforms side by side...live account to live account,...
When your account was set up with ATC as your introducing broker, your trades were cleared through FXCM. Therefore, you were always trading on the same FXCM No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution. That being the case, I'm glad you were pleased with the execution FXCM provided you.

On our NDD model, FXCM immediately offsets each of your orders one-for-one with the best prices from our competing liquidity providers which include many of the world's largest banks.

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With NDD forex execution, FXCM doesn't take the market risk on the other side of your trades, so we don't profit from your losses, or lose from your profits. Instead, we profit from your trading volume by charging a commission on your trades. That means, we want you to be profitable, so you will trade more with us.

FXCM does offer a DD option for smaller account sizes ($50 minimum), but the pricing and spreads are derived from our NDD price feed. Its important for traders to choose the account option best suited to their needs, and we are very transparent about this on our website.

Quoting Cubbybgood
I didn't notice any issues my first 2 days with them because I wasn't watching close enough. Problem 1. Day 3 all hell broke lose while I was watching a EURAUD trade of mine get close to hitting my 20 pips take profit. I eventually watched the candlestick move past my TP line and it didn't close out! I was shocked because the trade ended up needing to go 23-24 pips before it would close out. This would be completely normal if I WASN'T using an FXCM ECN account but I WAS! Spread was only 0.5 pips when I took the EURAUD trade. Problem 2. I took a...
I would need more details to be sure, but based on what you said, I believe Problems 1 and 2 you described had to do with a known issue which affected 2 of our MT4 servers on that particular day. In fact, I posted about this in the FXCM discussion thread and invited clients to log case if their trades were negatively impacted: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...87#post8816287

Its worth noting that our 18 other MT4 servers were unaffected by this issue. Given FXCM's size and the sheer number of accounts trading through us, the fact that there weren't more posts about this issue confirms there was nothing deliberate on our part to hurt your trading.

I will say the same thing to you that I said to our other clients when this issue occurred:

If your trades were negatively impacted, I encourage you to file a trade inquiry: http://bit.ly/1OLBiMs

The Trade Services Team will review your case and reply to you personally with a resolution. I apologize for any inconvenience you faced.

My offer stands, even though you closed your account with us. If an error on our part negatively impacted your trades, we will make the appropriate correction. If such a correction were to involve making a credit to your account, you are welcome to withdraw those funds and trade them elsewhere. However, I hope you will see it's FXCM's goal to treat you fairly as we always have from the time your ATC trades were cleared through us.

Quoting Cubbybgood
Day 3 on the new server was the day all hell broke lose again! This next problem was one of the worst issues I've ever seen at a broker in my 11 years of trading. See statement pic 1. The picture shows my EURJPY trades I took. You see on 3/29 the rollover fee was -$0.16 for trade one. On 3/30 the rollover fee for trade one was now -$0.04. 3/31 the rollover fee for trade one was now -$17.48! That's 109X (109 times) more then the rollover on 3/29 and 437X (437 times) more then the rollover on 3/30. I also took a 2nd EJ trade on 3/31 marked in orange...
To clarify, I believe you mean Problem 3, not Day 3, since earlier you said Problem 1 occurred on Day 3.

It's important to understand that rollover interest rates for JPY pairs spiked on March 31st not just for FXCM but for market participants around the world as shown by graphs of the global JPY rollover rate at the time.

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You mentioned a dealing desk broker did not reflect the same spike in JPY rollover rates. That may be, but it only highlights the fact that since a dealing desk broker doesn't offset each of your trades in the market, they can charge you whatever rollover rate they like. By contrast, FXCM provided you with NDD execution and had to pass on the higher rollover rates for JPY pairs that banks were charging us.
  • #97
  • Apr 11, 2016 4:45pm Apr 11, 2016 4:45pm
Quoting mrhigurashi
Nice post. Better then the guys who just whine and complain with nothing to back it up. Seems very dodgy, lucky i don't or have never had the intention to use them. Japanese interest rates went UP? Where do they get their sources from? The magical fairy kingdom of bullshit?
Konichiwa MrHigurashi,

If you take a look at the USDJPY spot versus Tom/Next spread seen on Bloomberg’s forward points that day, you will see that this was by no means limited to FXCM’s rollover interest rates.
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  • #98
  • Apr 11, 2016 4:50pm Apr 11, 2016 4:50pm
Quoting Drolph
Did u consider posting this in the big FXCM thread as well? (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=8960) The FXCM rep beeing active there will soon react i guess, but if you keep things on an objective basis i would encourage you to do so.
No harm done, Drolph, but thank you for pointing out how I'm happy to answer these questions.
  • #99
  • Apr 11, 2016 4:56pm Apr 11, 2016 4:56pm
Quoting ZeF
Leucadia got in at the right time after the CHF tsunami, using ZIRP fresh cash to buy FXCM. They bailed/bought FXCM and now they're pimping it until the wheels fall off. FXCM still has soft skin and pear-shaped tits so that's what's up, they're making money for big daddy Leucadia. It ain't gonna last forever though. Most of the execs are crackheads anyway and they probably are skimming off some $ as well. The gravy train is rolling for everyone, enjoy it while it lasts.
Where to begin with this post?

I encourage anyone who wants an accurate picture to read our CEO Drew Niv's recent interview with Profit & Loss magazine where he provided this update:

"We're continuing with our publicly disclosed plan to sell various assets to pay back that debt. Specifically, were selling most of our institutional businesses in order to focus on our core retail business. Operationally, our account numbers are healthy, people are continuing to sign up with us and we did 10% more volume in 2015 than we did in 2014, despite selling our subsidiaries in Japan and Hong Kong."

This should come as no surprise to traders who know the latest financial data from the CFTC show forex traders continue to have more money on deposit with FXCM than any other US-regulated broker.

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  • #100
  • Apr 11, 2016 5:02pm Apr 11, 2016 5:02pm
Quoting avibe
before you start shouting like a newbie.....it's good to take note for the EURAUD... though the TP was 1.47329 ... you can see the bid was 1.47331 ...so it was not triggered.. for your take profit to be hit TP = Bid Price.
Thanks for giving us the benefit of the doubt, Avibe

The bid-ask spread would have been one of my first thoughts as well. But in this case, based on the OP's description, I think the problem may have been related to a known issue that affected two of our 20 MT4 servers at the time in question. I made a post about this in the FXCM thread when it happened: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...rs#post8816287
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