I was fleeced by my broker and I have proof! | Page 4 | Forex Factory

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I was fleeced by my broker and I have proof!

  • #61
  • Apr 10, 2016 12:56pm Apr 10, 2016 12:56pm
Quoting Cubbybgood
Problem 1. Day 3 all hell broke lose while I was watching a EURAUD trade of mine get close to hitting my 20 pips take profit. I eventually watched the candlestick move past my TP line and it didn't close out! I was shocked because the trade ended up needing to go 23-24 pips before it would close out. This would be completely normal if I WASN'T using an FXCM ECN account but I WAS!
I don't think there is a guarantee that your order will be executed at the limit price. Your oder needs to be matched with an opposing order which could be complicated by the fact that you were not trading standard lot sizes ( e.g. 100k lots). Slippage does happen in real markets, especially when markets are thin and there is not that much liquidity. We don't know how much liquidity there is for EUR/AUD on FXCM since we cannot see the order book.

I do not know what exactly happened wit your account, just be informed that slippage exists in a real market place and is not indicative of manipulation per se. Even people trading on "real exchanges" such as futures and stock exchanges experience slippage from time to time.
  • #62
  • Apr 10, 2016 1:37pm Apr 10, 2016 1:37pm
Quoting Brementrader
{quote} I don't think there is a guarantee that your order will be executed at the limit price. Your oder needs to be matched with an opposing order which could be complicated by the fact that you were not trading standard lot sizes ( e.g. 100k lots). Slippage does happen in real markets, especially when markets are thin and there is not that much liquidity. We don't know how much liquidity there is for EUR/AUD on FXCM since we cannot see the order book. I do not know what exactly happened wit your account, just be informed that slippage exists...

Yes, Slippage does happen. Positive and negative but that's not what I'm talking about here...

It's really hard for someone to catch what's wrong with the picture of the EURAUD trade I posted. I have to point it out so it makes since. This is exactly what FXCM wants. Most traders won't catch the problem I found on this faulty server.

Take a look at post 11. I explain the EURAUD trade there....http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...57#post8862557
  • #63
  • Apr 10, 2016 1:42pm Apr 10, 2016 1:42pm
Chart wasn't keeping up with the quotes. So? It happens.
  • #64
  • Edited 2:23pm Apr 10, 2016 1:50pm | Edited 2:23pm
Quoting SunTrader
Chart wasn't keeping up with the quotes. So? It happens.

I've had it when it's slightly off for a fraction of a second but this server was off constantly by at least 1 pip. When I had them change my server this problem was completely gone.
  • #65
  • Edited 5:32pm Apr 10, 2016 4:55pm | Edited 5:32pm
So, if changing the server remedied one problem for you, all you're left with is the rollover issue.

They actually posted an article on DailyFX about the "squeeze" traders could possibly feel as a result of the end-of-fiscal-year rate spike. It shot from -0.10 to -2.45 (like, a 2,350% change). Coupled with the triple rollover, the swap was gonna be a little nuts.

When I was using FXCM's MT4 platform, it was before they implemented the raw spread feed and the bid/ask was always off. They had been saying for months that they were going to change it. After a year or so, I finally said "screw it" and switched to trading station. I've legitimately never had a problem.

If you only suffered a tiny loss (like, less than $100) because of some data screw-up, it really isn't evidence of being "fleeced". Of course, I'd try to get with their trade audit team and get my money back but if I couldn't, I'd just chalk it up as the cost of doing business. As pertains to the insane rollover; that's why you should pay attention to overnight lending rates. What happened to you happened to everyone holding overnight inventory in the Yen. I'd recommend Teletrader's free Web platform to watch overnight rates. When I was managing long term inventory, it helped me greatly since swaps had such an impact on my bottom line.

Below is a screenshot of the rollovers for 10K positions in various Yen pairs.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 104 KB


So, what happened to you happened to everyone in similar positions.

Now, I don't know the history in terms of money lost that you suffered at FXCM as a result of these issues. But unless it was substantial, this entire thread is hyperbole. Unless this has been a consistent problem for you that's resulted in serious losses, it's more an unfortunate happenstance than evidence of being "fleeced."
  • #66
  • Apr 10, 2016 5:42pm Apr 10, 2016 5:42pm
Quoting Bilstein
So, if changing the server remedied one problem for you, all you're left with is the rollover issue. They actually posted an article on DailyFX about the "squeeze" traders could possibly feel as a result of the end-of-fiscal-year rate spike. It shot from -0.10 to -2.45 (like, a 2,350% change). Coupled with the triple rollover, the swap was gonna be a little nuts. When I was using FXCM's MT4 platform, it was before they implemented the raw spread feed and the bid/ask was always off. They had been saying for months that they were going to change it....

You do bring up some valid points here.

I did not suffer large losses but an increase in Rollover like that is just so unacceptable. I have never had or recall an increase like that in my 11 years of trading. OANDA's rates did not change at all when FXCM had the massive increase on the JPY. I also checked forexbrokerinc and thier rate did not change as well. This is where the problem lies though. As far as i know, FXCM was the only one affected by this JPY rate which seemed really suspicious. My losses were just $34. Not a lot but I don't want to stay at a broker that pulls this crap on me. Why risk having a bunch of unnecessary losses caused by the broker before it's a valid time to leave? That's why I moved to OANDA.
  • #67
  • Apr 10, 2016 5:48pm Apr 10, 2016 5:48pm
Also, remember that FXCM owns Dailyfx.
  • #68
  • Apr 10, 2016 6:00pm Apr 10, 2016 6:00pm
Quoting Cubbybgood
Also, remember that FXCM owns Dailyfx.
Yeah, but not Teletrader.


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You're grasping at straws at this point.

Edit: I'm not going to convince you to stay at FXCM, lol. People are free to use whatever broker is conducive to their bottom line.
I was just pointing out the why it happened. I'm sure the same happened to traders at other brokerages in varying magnitudes. Different brokers offer competitive swaps as an advertising mechanism but with an interest rate differential that big, everyone felt at least some semblance of a "squeeze".
  • #69
  • Apr 10, 2016 6:18pm Apr 10, 2016 6:18pm
Quoting Bilstein
. I'd recommend Teletrader's free Web platform to watch overnight rates.
How do you find O/N-swaps on the teletrader page? I cant find them. Only libor rates..
  • #70
  • Apr 10, 2016 6:36pm Apr 10, 2016 6:36pm
Quoting shrike
{quote} How do you find O/N-swaps on the teletrader page? I cant find them. Only libor rates..
What do you think swap rates for spot FX are based on?

It's not going to be quoted the same way as it is at your broker. Typically, changes in the overnight rate aren't significant enough to cause a noticeable change in rollover rates. The reason for Cubby's issue was a huge shift in the overnight rate.
  • #71
  • Apr 11, 2016 12:31am Apr 11, 2016 12:31am
Quoting Xw53Jk
{quote} oh God ................. whether this indicates that the forex business, there has been a crime shrouded in a gang that carried out by the broker. And what it means to be a regulation ...........
Can anyone be absolutely sure(100%) that all their trades are ECN based?
If this was the case then very experienced traders would not have any issues with brokers.
Brokers would never reverse winning trades which has been noticed many a times with traders.
To add to this, many a times regulators have fined brokers for wrong doing and misconduct.
When the going gets tough , the tough get going
  • #72
  • Apr 11, 2016 2:09am Apr 11, 2016 2:09am
Most brokers are market makers, and at the best they use an Hybrid model. Probably some are true 100% ECN, but who knows. Anyway an honest and reliable broker with an hybrid model, able to cover himself from succesfull traders is the best option. Do not have an idea on FXCM since never used it
  • #73
  • Apr 11, 2016 9:22am Apr 11, 2016 9:22am
Quoting Goldmines1
{quote} hi can you please tell how limit orders can help in such situation? why cant broker play on limit orders?
A buy limit is a buy order, which means it is opened on the ask price. A sell limit is a sell order, opened on the bid price.
  • #74
  • Apr 11, 2016 9:26am Apr 11, 2016 9:26am
Quoting corre71
Most brokers are market makers, and at the best they use an Hybrid model. Probably some are true 100% ECN, but who knows. Anyway an honest and reliable broker with an hybrid model, able to cover himself from succesfull traders is the best option. Do not have an idea on FXCM since never used it

FXCM didn't used to run a hybrid model. They're doing it now. If FXCM were some "bucket shop" that profited when their clients lose money, they would have came out of the SNB decision like gods. Instead, FXCM lost a quarter of a billion dollars.

Why?

Because prior to the decision to remove the 1.20 "floor" in the EURCHF pair, 99% of EURCHF positions held by FXCM's clients were long. The market became so illiquid that orders between 1.20 and 0.9750 (where the price wound up) couldn't be filled. Liquidity providers literally stopped making prices. The end result was swaths of retail traders losing the entirety of their accounts and then some, leaving FXCM with a huge $250+ million liability. Now think, if FXCM were the "shady market maker on the other side causing traders to lose money" how did they lose all that money trading against their clients?

Ironically, after the SNB fiasco, retail traders celebrated the brokers who came out on top and yes, even profited from the move. They then celebrated further when brokers began forgiving negative balances. Now, if I'm a broker and I'm keeping trades in-house (I'm the market maker) the SNB move would result in all of my clients who were long the EURCHF having their deposits transferred to me. Sure, the losses may have exceeded their initial deposits but that's okay, your money came to me so I'll just "forgive" your negative balance and you'll deposit more money.

After receiving the bailout from Leucadia, FXCM has a lot of ground to make up so they instituted a dealing desk model for accounts smaller than $20,000. They were very public in their investor relations conference calls about how offering this model will help increase profits. Smaller traders get put on an execution model in which the broker has a vested interest in the trader losing money. Thankfully, I don't fall into that category which is why I'm still with them.

The reality is, an ECN or STP model exposes us to certain inherent risks when it comes to liquidity and, from what I can see, retail traders hate that while, at the same time, whining about how they're all looking for "true" ECN or STP brokers. Admittedly, I almost left FXCM when they started doing monthly trading contests because offerings like monthly trading contests and "sign on bonuses" are typically advertising mechanisms for brokers who are making the market and have a vested interest in their clients losing. But FXCM is only offering that for their micro accounts which, as mentioned before, are on their dealing desk model.

So, before we jump on the bandwagon and bash FXCM for the Leucadia loan remember, they needed it because they didn't make money when all their clients lost money in the SNB fiasco. While FXCM can be painted as guilty of not satisfactorily offsetting the risk of their clients' positions, they certainty can't be accused of profiting from their losses.
  • #75
  • Edited 10:13am Apr 11, 2016 9:57am | Edited 10:13am
I just want to know how the swap went from 0.04 to 17.46? If that is what it actually did, even on a triple swap day, even if we had the hugest LIBOR change in history, that is simply impossible. That's a 436 increase!! How the hell can you explain that??
  • #76
  • Apr 11, 2016 10:15am Apr 11, 2016 10:15am
Quoting BSFilter
Hey guys Bilstein, I've always respected your posts, and your trading experience, so don't take this as a slight against you mate. You do raise some very valid points. I am also a full time FX trader so believe I have seen my fair share of "less than honest" brokers. The alleged interactions with FXCM and the charts the OP posted, if legit, raise some very serious concerns. I stress again, if legitimate. In the years I have been using and coding MT4, over god knows how many brokers, I have NEVER seen a split between the quote and the chart. I am...
Hey bud, no worries, I don't take offense to stuff 'round here.

I won't make the claim that FXCM is perfect however, keep in mind, overnight swaps for brokers typically come with a markup. As such, brokers do have some flexibility when it comes to offering "competitive swap rates."

When it comes to OP's experience with the MT4 prices being off, I'm with him, I experienced the same thing. It's what prompted my switching to their Trading Station platform which, not for nothing, is far superior. What happened for me was that I noticed data discrepancies, it made me uneasy, so I dumped MT4. Now, if I were experiencing the same thing with Trading Station, I would dump FXCM. For all intents and purposes, it could have just been a "server issue" that could have been fixed for me if I pressed the issue but honestly, MT4 is garbage and I had long since been over it, so I switched. That's just my opinion, don't kill me!

I agree that the rollover fee is a little shocking but, as I mentioned before, brokers do have some leeway in offering competitive swaps, especially if trades are being kept in-house. There is a cost associated with refinancing (i.e. rolling over) spot positions in order to circumvent the physical delivery of the currency associated with the contract. The point I was trying to make in OP's case isn't that FXCM "fleeced" him however, they just don't offer as competitive of swaps as other brokers do. There was an observable spike in the overnight lending rate for the Japanese Yen so there is a verifiable reason for it. At the end of the day, OP's experience proves just that: maybe FXCM's rollover schedule just isn't conducive to his bottom line. Which, in all reality, is fine but, to call it "stealing" is intellectually dishonest.

Now, I'm not being mean but, can anyone show me in a screenshot the swaps they were paid or charged on that day with another broker? FXCM is the only broker I can find historical swap rates on so admittedly, I'm lacking information as pertains to the other side of the argument.
  • #77
  • Apr 11, 2016 10:16am Apr 11, 2016 10:16am
Quoting albchr
Screen shot of the section I mentioned above taken as soon as I posted the above post. Less than 2 minutes ago. See any signs of here? I think not! {image}
there are also very specific members that are above the normal "commercial agenda" rules- due to the broker they are marketing.
  • #78
  • Apr 11, 2016 10:23am Apr 11, 2016 10:23am
Y'all need to face reality.


If OP had been PAID that rollover fee, he would have never questioned it.

It has nothing to do with "corporate shilling."
It has nothing to do with "broker conspiracy."
It has nothing to do with "being fleeced."


It's just a case of someone losing money on something unexpected that they obviously don't understand. Notice how there aren't dozens of other threads of people complaining about the same thing? It's ONE POSTER pointing it out on a thread with a paltry 2 pages.
  • #79
  • Apr 11, 2016 10:39am Apr 11, 2016 10:39am
Quoting Pharm0r
{quote} there are also very specific members that are above the normal "commercial agenda" rules- due to the broker they are marketing.
That may or may not be true. I honestly don't know man.

I also agree in large part with Bilstein's post above. Although I'm certainly nowhere near as knowledgeable about it all. All I know is for me it all fell apart when they took over my account.

Quoting Bilstein
{quote} After receiving the bailout from Leucadia, FXCM has a lot of ground to make up so they instituted a dealing desk model for accounts smaller than $20,000. They were very public in their investor relations conference calls about how offering this model will help increase profits. Smaller traders get put on an execution model in which the broker has a vested interest in the trader losing money. Thankfully, I don't fall into that category which is why I'm still with them.
I knew then and I know now it's due to being a small trader as he said because a friend of mine here who was also with IBFX thru the takeover is a larger trader and experienced no such issues as I having been put in a ummmm ... "better group"? ... lol

I'm old enough to know we don't live in an ideal world but that just seems a tad unfair to me. If profits are what they need take it from those who can afford it.

Quit pissing on us little fish all the time.

We live, we learn, we adjust.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #80
  • Apr 11, 2016 10:43am Apr 11, 2016 10:43am
To be honest, I really don't want to get involved in this.

But I'd still like someone to explain to me how the swap can increase over 400 times overnight?

The only thing I can offer on short notice is my JPY trades at the same time, adjusted for the OPs 0.12 lot size, on Pepperstone
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