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Trading without stop-losses

  • #341
  • Jan 31, 2016 11:47pm Jan 31, 2016 11:47pm
we will not know where the market will move, therefore we need to be able to limit the risks that will create an account we can avoid mc. therefore, I try to always use SL when trading so that when the greater risk then we are able to minimize the risk
  • #342
  • Jan 31, 2016 11:50pm Jan 31, 2016 11:50pm
sorry do post
  • #343
  • Apr 9, 2016 3:28am Apr 9, 2016 3:28am
Interestingly, when I stopped using stop losses, that's when I became totally profitable. Not only that, I've dismissed the idea of risk-reward ratio. And so far, it made me recover all my losses and come back to winning form.
  • #344
  • Apr 9, 2016 4:49am Apr 9, 2016 4:49am
Quoting dejcire13
Interestingly, when I stopped using stop losses, that's when I became totally profitable. Not only that, I've dismissed the idea of risk-reward ratio. And so far, it made me recover all my losses and come back to winning form.

Max DD is zero ? hmmmmm obviously FF statistical analysis is rubbish especially when a huge DD is visible and FF shows a zero DD!
They need to improve that section.
  • #345
  • Apr 9, 2016 7:41am Apr 9, 2016 7:41am
I think DDs are only recorded once trades are closed. For improvement, FF should also include the stat called Maximum Adverse Excursion (MAE).
  • #346
  • Apr 9, 2016 8:09am Apr 9, 2016 8:09am
Quoting dejcire13
I think DDs are only recorded once trades are closed. For improvement, FF should also include the stat called Maximum Adverse Excursion (MAE).
True BUT you understand that MAX DD is not based on closure of trades, they are achieved anytime during a trade whether be open or closed. Either way you achieved a DD but like I said it shows zero on your account which is misleading and needs to reflect reality!
But good trading non the less and each has their own style and idea as long as it works and is sustained.
  • #347
  • Apr 9, 2016 1:18pm Apr 9, 2016 1:18pm
I have a simple question, and that is...Is there any advantage for don´t set stop losses? Any gain doing that? I´ve made this question to myself and I don´t find even ONE reason to risk my daily investment by not placing stop losses in my trading. Please, if someone can explain it I´ll appreciate it. Thanks
  • #348
  • Apr 9, 2016 1:27pm Apr 9, 2016 1:27pm
Quoting forexintradi
I have a simple question, and that is...Is there any advantage for dont set stop losses? Any gain doing that? Ive made this question to myself and I dont find even ONE reason to risk my daily investment by not placing stop losses in my trading. Please, if someone can explain it Ill appreciate it. Thanks
Well, coming from my experience, when I removed my stop losses, I was able to meet my targets more often. There were many times in the market on which the price would have a sudden spike up (or down) that would cause my stop losses to be triggered, only to find out that the price would just come back and then hit my target. Those were how I lost many of my trades and I hated it. But of course, I dont advise this strategy. It is a very risky move not to set stop losses. But if you're willing to take those risks, then you can try if it suits you.
  • #349
  • Apr 9, 2016 1:43pm Apr 9, 2016 1:43pm
Quoting dejcire13
Interestingly, when I stopped using stop losses, that's when I became totally profitable. Not only that, I've dismissed the idea of risk-reward ratio. And so far, it made me recover all my losses and come back to winning form.
Glad it works for you but i d advice anyone not to do like you :-)
  • #350
  • Apr 9, 2016 1:52pm Apr 9, 2016 1:52pm
Quoting priceaction9
{quote} Glad it works for you but i d advice anyone not to do like you :-)
Exactly! And i agree with you. But here's another catch. I start my account to an amount that I'm always willing to blow 100%. But once I recover all of it, I withdraw the money and leave the half for trading. Given that I've already withdrawn my initial capital, I'm no longer afraid to lose the current fund. This is why I'm unafraid not to add a stop loss.
  • #351
  • Apr 9, 2016 1:55pm Apr 9, 2016 1:55pm
Quoting dejcire13
{quote} Exactly! And i agree with you. But here's another catch. I start my account to an amount that I'm always willing to blow 100%. But once I recover all of it, I withdraw the money and leave the half for trading. Given that I've already withdrawn my initial capital, I'm no longer afraid to lose the current fund. This is why I'm unafraid not to add a stop loss.
hahaha...ok, I understand know. Your explanation is crystal clear, good luck to you!
  • #352
  • Apr 9, 2016 1:59pm Apr 9, 2016 1:59pm
Quoting dejcire13
{quote} Well, coming from my experience, when I removed my stop losses, I was able to meet my targets more often. There were many times in the market on which the price would have a sudden spike up (or down) that would cause my stop losses to be triggered, only to find out that the price would just come back and then hit my target. Those were how I lost many of my trades and I hated it. But of course, I dont advise this strategy. It is a very risky move not to set stop losses. But if you're willing to take those risks, then you can try if it suits...
Yes, it happened when there are those spike up or downs (I call them ¨SL cleaners), also if you place the SL to short, but if I weight pros and cons...with no doubt I think I minimize risk placing SL (in my own experience).
I now read your last comment...and it explains everything...hahaha, you are not afraid to lose the money, that´s fine...for you, but not for me...lol
  • #353
  • Apr 9, 2016 2:43pm Apr 9, 2016 2:43pm
Quoting dejcire13
{quote} Exactly! And i agree with you. But here's another catch. I start my account to an amount that I'm always willing to blow 100%. But once I recover all of it, I withdraw the money and leave the half for trading. Given that I've already withdrawn my initial capital, I'm no longer afraid to lose the current fund. This is why I'm unafraid not to add a stop loss.
Fair enough, good if you have your own money management technique

If it works for you , dont change it ;-)
  • #354
  • Apr 9, 2016 4:13pm Apr 9, 2016 4:13pm
One should always use a stop loss if not you will end up cutting your winning trades in order to manage your losing trades , by not using a stop you are not removing risk you are postponing risk with the potential of turning a small loss into a possible huge loss that will damage your account and cause emotional damage You cut your losses and let your winners run not the other way round this is something you must accept and embrace if you are ever to be successful
  • #355
  • Apr 9, 2016 6:09pm Apr 9, 2016 6:09pm
Quoting Ren1058
One should always use a stop loss if not you will end up cutting your winning trades in order to manage your losing trades , by not using a stop you are not removing risk you are postponing risk with the potential of turning a small loss into a possible huge loss that will damage your account and cause emotional damage You cut your losses and let your winners run not the other way round this is something you must accept and embrace if you are ever to be successful

Really? Then how do you explain what I have been doing successfully now for a living?
Trading with a SL is like giving the broker fuel for the fire sure it might work on some occasions but they can see your positioning and hence your weakness (SL) and the trick they use is to widen spreads (Bid/Ask price) when/if price is near your SL so as to take you out, but then you would have known that if you were trading for a living.

By the way I love seeing people saying cut your losses and run your winners... run your winners to where the north pole? If you know when and where to run your winners to you would own the markets, the fact of reality is you have no clue hence why you used a stop loss to start with.
Be realistic don't make things up from your bad experiences but state the facts from success.
  • #356
  • Apr 9, 2016 6:31pm Apr 9, 2016 6:31pm
Quoting tradability
{quote} Really? Then how do you explain what I have been doing successfully now for a living? Trading with a SL is like giving the broker fuel for the fire sure it might work on some occasions but they can see your positioning and hence your weakness (SL) and the trick they use is to widen spreads (Bid/Ask price) when/if price is near your SL so as to take you out, but then you would have known that if you were trading for a living. By the way I love seeing people saying cut your losses and run your winners... run your winners to where the north...
I respect everybody trading, since risk management is a personal decision. However, I personally think it is much safer to use SL for obvious reasons.
Said that, when you are talking about SL make easier for your broker to play against you with spreads and SL, it is only if your broker is a market maker, otherwise the broker is just a broker or intermediary and only make money from the comissions.
Some times price move up or down 30, 40 or more pips in some seconds, other times there are slippages, and other times the problem is mental and you delay to close a loser position hoping price reverse to your side....so placing SL looks much, much safer...and also are you watching the screen all the time? It is a big effort to me, and with no SL Id be panicking when volatility is high, or there are some relevant news in the world...how do you feel about it?
I know sometimes the price just go to eat SLs and then come back to your winning position, and I hate that...so, I have learned to place SL a little bit longer than my analysis says (it doesnt hurt my pocket too much). and I feel safe if some fast movement suddenly happen.
Again, you can do whatever works for you, but it doesnt mean this is the best way for everybody (I am not saying youve said it).
Good trading
  • #357
  • Apr 9, 2016 8:13pm Apr 9, 2016 8:13pm
Quoting forexintradi
{quote} I respect everybody trading, since risk management is a personal decision. However, I personally think it is much safer to use SL for obvious reasons. Said that, when you are talking about SL make easier for your broker to play against you with spreads and SL, it is only if your broker is a market maker, otherwise the broker is just a broker or intermediary and only make money from the comissions. Some times price move up or down 30, 40 or more pips in some seconds, other times there are slippages, and other times the problem is mental and...

OK I know you're not going to like what I'm about to say and no offence to you BUT your broker whether a market maker or not is in existence to make money for himself and his liquidity providers and not in one way in any and many ways including spreads, slippage and taking you out of a trade which he keeps 100% of the profit so when you say only market makers do that really shows your lack of knowledge of a broker or should I say both broker and liquidity provider. If a broker doesn't make money in many ways he simply doesn't survive.
I have been asked as an affiliate what spread increase would I like and I wonder how much slippage they increase as well..this clearly demonstrates they are prepared to do whatever scam it takes to keep an institutional trader or any large traders over the small traders.

In response to you and most here your number one enemy is your broker be it regulated or not, makes no difference. If you can overcome their manipulative ways then you can turn to your strategy to make it profitable.

I have single handed seen with my current ASIC regulated broker widen spreads drastically, increase slippage to an unacceptable level so I am not talking about a dream here nor a myth but only by observation with a non market maker that is regulated.
i.e all brokers are scammers, they must be to survive but the issue is most stupid people think they are legit and honest.

We are all here as traders hence on the same side working to make profits so forexintradi the most important thing you have said which I agree 100% is MM. That will determine your success along with your strategy and nothing else. The market will go wherever the market wants to go our job as traders is to get in and out with profits by overcoming brokers and market movements.
  • #358
  • Apr 10, 2016 1:42am Apr 10, 2016 1:42am
Quoting tradability
{quote} Really? Then how do you explain what I have been doing successfully now for a living? Trading with a SL is like giving the broker fuel for the fire sure it might work on some occasions but they can see your positioning and hence your weakness (SL) and the trick they use is to widen spreads (Bid/Ask price) when/if price is near your SL so as to take you out, but then you would have known that if you were trading for a living. By the way I love seeing people saying cut your losses and run your winners... run your winners to where the north...
What have you been doing sucessfully for years? winners run with a trailing stop I take you are familiar with that? Do not tell me I have no clue you know nothing about me, you really ought to reign in your your rather nasty and confrontational attitude young man
  • #359
  • Edited Apr 23, 2018 8:30pm Apr 10, 2016 1:45am | Edited Apr 23, 2018 8:30pm
For anyone seriously contemplating trading without a SL I suggest you read this:

{ copyrighted attachment deleted by staff }
  • #360
  • Edited 3:11am Apr 10, 2016 2:54am | Edited 3:11am
So you want everyone to read another loser's article who doesn't trade for a living nor trade successfully and become like you and them right? So to you this is a game of follow the losers in trading and do as they do rather than learn from those making a living from trading?

The bottom line is you're not a successful trader using a SL so why would you be advising others to be like you? I mean if you came on here and advising others to use SL like you are using it and being a successful a trader from this point of view that's fine. But that is far from the truth!
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