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Spreads and Slippage

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 23, 2006 9:57am Aug 23, 2006 9:57am
Made my first DATA trade on MB Trading today.
13 pips slippage. The spread widened to 12 on the pound 11 on the Franc and 8 on the euro.

Is this what everyone experienced????
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #2
  • Aug 23, 2006 10:28am Aug 23, 2006 10:28am
Quoting FXopportunist
Made my first DATA trade on MB Trading today.
13 pips slippage. The spread widened to 12 on the pound 11 on the Franc and 8 on the euro.

Is this what everyone experienced????
c'mon dude...news! Typical MO of any variable spread broker...spreads widen on the affected crosses. If you've been with us for any significant amount of time, you would know this.

MBT, CoesFX, IBFX...all of them. variable spread means variable spread...

The advantage of using MBT or CoesFX is that you can trade inside the spread...so...what difference does it make to you if the spread widened? You could have put a buy order at the bid if you wanted. doesn't guarantee a fill, but you didn't have to pay the spread...did ya?
  • #3
  • Aug 23, 2006 10:48am Aug 23, 2006 10:48am
Made my first DATA trade on MB Trading today.
13 pips slippage. The spread widened to 12 on the pound 11 on the Franc and 8 on the euro.

Is this what everyone experienced????

Is this post not ok?
It was moved to classified ads?
Moderator? just an error or deliberate??
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #4
  • Aug 23, 2006 10:50am Aug 23, 2006 10:50am
Quoting FXopportunist
Made my first DATA trade on MB Trading today.
13 pips slippage. The spread widened to 12 on the pound 11 on the Franc and 8 on the euro.

Is this what everyone experienced????

Is this post not ok?
It was moved to classified ads?
Moderator? just an error or deliberate??
welcome to forex
  • #5
  • Aug 23, 2006 11:03am Aug 23, 2006 11:03am
Hello MXB,
I think you mean welcome to MB Trading.
I have been doing this for years.
I am only new to the "almost" ECN's
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #6
  • Aug 23, 2006 11:37am Aug 23, 2006 11:37am
Quoting FXopportunist
Made my first DATA trade on MB Trading today.
13 pips slippage. The spread widened to 12 on the pound 11 on the Franc and 8 on the euro.

Is this what everyone experienced????

Is this post not ok?
It was moved to classified ads?
Moderator? just an error or deliberate??
FXopportunist,

I feel your pain. I am demo testing MBT and have had this slippage problem twice. Most likely your trading before news release? I news trade and try to get in before the spike, sometimes I do and other times just horrible. I have entered a trade seconds before release and get filled minutes later.

Not sure about MBT for news trading before spike.

TimeFreedom
  • #7
  • Aug 23, 2006 2:03pm Aug 23, 2006 2:03pm
Quoting TimeFreedom
FXopportunist,

I feel your pain. I am demo testing MBT and have had this slippage problem twice. Most likely your trading before news release? I news trade and try to get in before the spike, sometimes I do and other times just horrible. I have entered a trade seconds before release and get filled minutes later.

Not sure about MBT for news trading before spike.

TimeFreedom
Hello, TimeFreedom

This time around I used a Stop Market for my entry order. According to MB's website when a Stop Market order is used a market order is sent out when the Stop price has been traded at. It says you can also use a Stop Limit order which may only be filled at the EXACT price but may not be filled at all in a fast moving market.
I will use a Stop Limit order next time. However, my bet is that I will not be filled at all.
I also noticed that MB's prices was running behind compred to my primary platform and behind my charting software also. this may be why i did not get a good fill. If the platform's price action is slow, obviouisly my market order would come in very late.
I will keep everyone posted as to how the next data trade goes.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #8
  • Aug 23, 2006 2:19pm Aug 23, 2006 2:19pm
Which announcements did you trade today? I was a tick observer with CoesFX Live on the CAD announcement and then the EURUSD housing starts move. I didn't see any slippage on either of those announcements. I missed the CBI, though.

I'm with FXO. I realize there are a lot of traders saying - "welcome to forex" or "get used to it". But, frankly, I've been trading news for a while and really have not experienced or seen anything like what's happening this month regarding slippage. I do, however, think it's important to recognize that slippage complaints are coming from all over the board. So, it's probably a market phenomenon happening right now and not attributed to a single or small group of brokers. I think it has to do with liquidity drying up this month - making it easier for prices to slip.

Anyway, I have a hunch things will settle down more after labor day and as we move into October. We'll see.
  • #9
  • Aug 23, 2006 2:39pm Aug 23, 2006 2:39pm
Quoting stockwet
Which announcements did you trade today? I was a tick observer with CoesFX Live on the CAD announcement and then the EURUSD housing starts move. I didn't see any slippage on either of those announcements. I missed the CBI, though.

I'm with FXO. I realize there are a lot of traders saying - "welcome to forex" or "get used to it". But, frankly, I've been trading news for a while and really have not experienced or seen anything like what's happening this month regarding slippage. I do, however, think it's important to recognize that slippage complaints are coming from all over the board. So, it's probably a market phenomenon happening right now and not attributed to a single or small group of brokers. I think it has to do with liquidity drying up this month - making it easier for prices to slip.

Anyway, I have a hunch things will settle down more after labor day and as we move into October. We'll see.
I'll admit, there are more complaints this month than in previous months. And I definitely have noticed how much slippage is coming through during news trades...but honestly, regardless of how things were, things change. Perhaps this is more like it will be. Perhaps the brokers, the ECNs everyone wised up a little bit and started slipping a little bit during volume to do whatever it is that they're trying to do (trigger orders, pass through to the banks, etc).

I, personally, will expect this slippage as a more permanent thing. It seems to be way to easy money for the brokers and the banks. Regardless of slippage, the price movement still feels consistent if not a little more "jerky".

Like MoneyMaster likes to say...just adapt, and you'll be fine. Expect the slip and be happy if you don't get it...or just don't trade the news and keep your sanity in tact. Either way, you win.
  • #10
  • Aug 23, 2006 2:53pm Aug 23, 2006 2:53pm
Quoting mrmikal
I'll admit, there are more complaints this month than in previous months. And I definitely have noticed how much slippage is coming through during news trades...but honestly, regardless of how things were, things change. Perhaps this is more like it will be. Perhaps the brokers, the ECNs everyone wised up a little bit and started slipping a little bit during volume to do whatever it is that they're trying to do (trigger orders, pass through to the banks, etc).

I, personally, will expect this slippage as a more permanent thing. It seems to be way to easy money for the brokers and the banks. Regardless of slippage, the price movement still feels consistent if not a little more "jerky".

Like MoneyMaster likes to say...just adapt, and you'll be fine. Expect the slip and be happy if you don't get it...or just don't trade the news and keep your sanity in tact. Either way, you win.
I think it is just the natural progression. Data has been sweet as sugar lately. Most of the majors have paid big pips in a linear way. I say it is a natural progression because the brokers and liquidity providers can't hedge their overall positions in time to avoid losses.
So they feed the traders bogus data to trade on that evens the score. They widen the spreads to give themselves more time to process and cover in the market to avoid these losses. They also realize that it makes straddle traders think twice because they have to increase their stops to stay in the market.
We must communicate our experiences so we can find the best trading environments. Data traders must have STP and access to great and multiple sources of liquidity. I just want to know where that is for the smaller accounts.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #11
  • Aug 23, 2006 3:04pm Aug 23, 2006 3:04pm
Quoting stockwet

I'm with FXO.
Stockwet,

What is FXO, most likely a broker, right?

TimeFreedom
  • #12
  • Aug 23, 2006 3:09pm Aug 23, 2006 3:09pm
Quoting TimeFreedom
Stockwet,

What is FXO, most likely a broker, right?

TimeFreedom
Sorry, I'm lazy. I meant that I was agreeing with FXOpportunist's comments.
  • #13
  • Aug 23, 2006 3:14pm Aug 23, 2006 3:14pm
Quoting mrmikal
I'll admit, there are more complaints this month than in previous months. And I definitely have noticed how much slippage is coming through during news trades...but honestly, regardless of how things were, things change. Perhaps this is more like it will be. Perhaps the brokers, the ECNs everyone wised up a little bit and started slipping a little bit during volume to do whatever it is that they're trying to do (trigger orders, pass through to the banks, etc).

I, personally, will expect this slippage as a more permanent thing. It seems to be way to easy money for the brokers and the banks. Regardless of slippage, the price movement still feels consistent if not a little more "jerky".

Like MoneyMaster likes to say...just adapt, and you'll be fine. Expect the slip and be happy if you don't get it...or just don't trade the news and keep your sanity in tact. Either way, you win.
Maybe. Maybe not. I tend to think of the market as being too cyclical to expect this to be a permanent thing. "What doesn't work today, but which worked yesterday, may work tomorrow" kind of philosophy.

On the other hand, I've been following the COTS and this year has seen HUGE growth in the number of contracts, at least on the EUR, anyway. If the market is attracting that kind of volume, maybe brokers and banks are doing this. However, if the growth continues, I really don't see how what they are doing is all that scalable and eventually it will subside.
  • #14
  • Aug 24, 2006 6:36am Aug 24, 2006 6:36am
I don't buy this lack of liquidity arguement. I just don't see how liquidity is drying up all of a sudden. The way I see it there is a vast source of liquidity out there. Probably a lot already being used in forex, but there is a lot more resources being used to finance stocks, mortgages, auto loans, anything you can think of. It's just a matter of the forex market paying for the liquidity they need. If we had to pay an extra 1% on the margin we borrow and discount the margin we lend by 1%, then forex traders could just suck money out of all corners of the economy to be available to trade. There would be capital inflows into providing liquidity for forex traders. I'd rather just pay more interest than deal with these crazy spreads.
  • #15
  • Aug 24, 2006 6:53am Aug 24, 2006 6:53am
It seems to me like the net moves aren't any different than they ever were. They just seem to be happening immediately instead of of over a couple hours. I used to have my technical levels picked out for my longs and shorts and then wait for the news to drive me to my entries. Or, if we were in consolodation or somekind of wedge pattern I would buy or sell based on the numbers and get paid over the course of 20 minutes to 2 hrs. Now if you do not have entry orders you have missed the move for the day and are forced to look for crumbs on a risky pullback after the spike. I never wanted to be a "white knuckler" but it's where the money is now.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #16
  • Aug 24, 2006 7:54am Aug 24, 2006 7:54am
Quoting Keys
I don't buy this lack of liquidity arguement. I just don't see how liquidity is drying up all of a sudden. The way I see it there is a vast source of liquidity out there. Probably a lot already being used in forex, but there is a lot more resources being used to finance stocks, mortgages, auto loans, anything you can think of. It's just a matter of the forex market paying for the liquidity they need. If we had to pay an extra 1% on the margin we borrow and discount the margin we lend by 1%, then forex traders could just suck money out of all corners of the economy to be available to trade. There would be capital inflows into providing liquidity for forex traders. I'd rather just pay more interest than deal with these crazy spreads.
The liquidity I'm referring to is not a general economic or financial markets liquidity. Remember, as retail traders, we only trade within a microcosm of the broader foreign exchange market. Couple that with the well known fact that every August retail traders, market makers, bank staff and others in Europe and the US vacation, and you run into minor hiccups for retail traders.

Last week, I was watching the level 2 trades coming through on the CoesFX platform. I was surprised to see, prior to some major economic news, that the maximum contract sizes flowing through on GBPUSD was only 30 lots. Anyone else who uses CoesFX or similar ECN's know that multiple bid/offers for a 100 lots is not only common, but frequently the norm.

So, I'm sticking to my comments that reduced liquidity (I don't think I used the phrase that "liquidity has dried up") enables banks to more profitably widen spreads or slip prices without the normal risks associated with those practices in a highly liquid market.

Nevertheless, we can all endlessly debate the causes of what's happening (or what's not happening, for some). So, I'll just get back to my trading
  • #17
  • Aug 24, 2006 8:43am Aug 24, 2006 8:43am
Hi guys,
I have just downloaded the MB Trading demo software today out of curiosity as to how non-dealer desks operate. Ok, today is not really a very highly volatile new day and prices seem to be pretty stable.
I am seeing about 1pip spreads on gbp and eur/usd. Now sometimes I am also seeing 0pips spreads for a very short duration of time. How is that possible?
And is there anyway to really exploit this short periods of 0 spreads??
Execution seems to be quite ok today.
Thanks,
  • #18
  • Aug 24, 2006 8:47am Aug 24, 2006 8:47am
Hi,

Just downloaded the MB trading demo out of curiousity more than anything else. I can see 1pip spreads on tht Eur and Gbp/usd. Sometimes I also see a 0 spread. Is this normal?? Is there some way to exploit this successfuly??
I am interested to know if anyone scalps on this platform.

thanks
  • #19
  • Aug 24, 2006 10:47am Aug 24, 2006 10:47am
Quoting stockwet
The liquidity I'm referring to is not a general economic or financial markets liquidity. Remember, as retail traders, we only trade within a microcosm of the broader foreign exchange market. Couple that with the well known fact that every August retail traders, market makers, bank staff and others in Europe and the US vacation, and you run into minor hiccups for retail traders.

Last week, I was watching the level 2 trades coming through on the CoesFX platform. I was surprised to see, prior to some major economic news, that the maximum contract sizes flowing through on GBPUSD was only 30 lots. Anyone else who uses CoesFX or similar ECN's know that multiple bid/offers for a 100 lots is not only common, but frequently the norm.

So, I'm sticking to my comments that reduced liquidity (I don't think I used the phrase that "liquidity has dried up") enables banks to more profitably widen spreads or slip prices without the normal risks associated with those practices in a highly liquid market.

Nevertheless, we can all endlessly debate the causes of what's happening (or what's not happening, for some). So, I'll just get back to my trading
I find myself wondering what role technology is playing in all of this. The increasing numbers of automated strategies, especially on the commercial level. New order and communication systems connecting the markets. And just general faster access to liquidity than in the past.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #20
  • Aug 24, 2006 12:02pm Aug 24, 2006 12:02pm
Quoting radicalmoses
Hi,

Just downloaded the MB trading demo out of curiousity more than anything else. I can see 1pip spreads on tht Eur and Gbp/usd. Sometimes I also see a 0 spread. Is this normal?? Is there some way to exploit this successfuly??
I am interested to know if anyone scalps on this platform.

thanks
There is nothing wrong with what you're seeing. 0 pips are probably closer to 0.5 pips...you're probably not displaying all of the decimals or MBT is just not giving them.

As far as an exploit...what do you want to exploit? you either pay 1 pip and commission or you pay 0 pips and commission. Either way, you have to get the trade to go in your direction before you make any money. Did I miss something?
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