How can such a huge market be manipulated? | Page 2 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

EUR/USD... Why such a huge move? 60 replies

What are the limitations of placing huge orders (such as a mil) 10 replies

Forex market is fully manipulated by major players 5 replies

CAN such a thing be coded?... 17 replies

Tick charts that can be manipulated 1 reply

Attachments: How can such a huge market be manipulated?
Exit Attachments

How can such a huge market be manipulated?

  • #21
  • Mar 20, 2016 3:49pm Mar 20, 2016 3:49pm
Quoting midouch
Hello, This is not coincidence. Can't complain enough about the times I've seen a bearish hourly candle turns to a weak / or even a bull in the last few seconds before candle close, and vice versa. Does this mean that markets are manipulated? Does it make sense that people take profit only few seconds before the hourly close? Because it does not convince me, and the amount of times I've seen this (especially on GBPUSD) is outrageous. I mean it, I am sure it is not just coincidence, it seems like a pattern that repeats itself over and over. Is it...
The situation your present here is a pattern you can use to go with the quick momentum shifting but with condition to buy low/sell high.

I know what you talking about and can confirm that I have seen a 4 hour candle bar that exploded (without news release) in last 5 minutes and wasn't in a congestion area.
Money moves the market, not an indicator.
  • #22
  • Mar 20, 2016 4:06pm Mar 20, 2016 4:06pm
Quoting midouch
{quote} So I have more chances if I just go random and do not listen to TA/FA, right?
Quote
This is a dirty cheating world where everyone is out to get you, if you knew where the stops and profit takes were, it would be so much easier. Ask your broker for the indicator that allows you to see other peoples orders on your platform, including PT areas and stop levels. You see these are the indicators they use and would be great to have, but instead we get RSI MACD and all the other crap.

You have a better chance if you do not listen to Hurst. The market is a very large herd of donkeys, you are one donkey and have to figure out what direction the herd is running so you don't get run over. That's it. Just because you end up on the wrong side of a trade it does not mean there is cheating. What Hurst is saying makes no sense and is paranoid conspiracy fantasies.

Calling it cheating because someone wants you to be on the wrong end of their trade? That is not cheating, that is competition. You want to get rich just like everyone else who is playing this game.

Quote
I know what you talking about and can confirm that I have seen a 4 hour candle bar that exploded (without news release) in last 5 minutes and wasn't in a congestion area.

It's a free market. Stuff happens. Stop blaming the market for your decisions.
Price-Action Extremist
  • #23
  • Edited 4:39pm Mar 20, 2016 4:25pm | Edited 4:39pm
Quoting midouch
{quote} Makes sense.
Thanks M!

I do want to explain one thing. From the market makers point of view.

In LIFE (as in forex), the minority is almost always right. I will soon explain why in life it is so.

Just imagine you are a market maker and then you will quickly understand why the minority is almost right in forex. It just cannot be any other way around. In forex, being a market maker (MM) is not an easy thing. You must stay away from being at loss for long periods of time. Because if you don't, pretty much, sooner or later, there will be no markets to make in a first place. The MMs have no other choice but to take the smaller balance side (long/short). They simply have no other choice left. If the majority happens to be right (the sentiment), the markets will be all dead. Sooner than later. Someone has to pay the majority's profits. Surely these profits cannot get covered by the minority's losses. And even if by some chance they do get covered, the more money the majority make, the bigger their profits will get and at some point the MMs will have to pay the majority's profits out of their own pockets... As in file, the majority is made mostly of losers. So, the bankers are doing nothing different than what already takes place in life anyway.

Here is a simple LIFE's example, very popular, why the majority happens to be wrong. When speaking of God, there are four major groups of people. The believers, the atheists, the neutrals and... those who know God in person. Do not get too hot on that one. A surprise is about to pop out now. The absolute majority is the believers one. But they are wrong! By definition. Why? Simply because believing in something means YOU DO NOT KNOW, you are suspecting there is something. Well, that is not enough. Suspecting certainly is not knowledge-based situation (covered by an evidence). It is a lot more like ignorance-based situation. Belief and ignorance have the very same meaning - not knowing (for certain). So, you now see, the majority is in ignorance - in this example, the God believers.

It seems to me the winners in this "Is there a God?" argument could be in between the atheists and those who really know God in person. Whoever the winner is, like in forex, the minority wins (almost always)! And that is all that matters in forex...

Do not blame it on the MMs. If anyone of you could put her/himself unto their MMs shoes, would do it into the same/similar way.

P.S. I do not know, if there is a God or there is not. I simply do not care. I am too small and too stupid to take sides here. Being neutral puts me more into the ignorant group of people, but I am ignorant anyway, because to be frank, I have other a lot more important shits to take care of, like supporting my business and family. Enjoying life, meanwhile... God or no God, it is all the same. Nothing in LIFE will change. For example, I do know about Leonardo DiCaprio's existence, but that fact itself changes nothing in my life. Even, if I knew DiCaprio in person, it is highly likely that fact would change almost nothing in my life, too. If I happen to be a pretty female, I might even get heart hurt! Getting fucked and then abandoned. So, maybe it is not so good idea to know Leo in person, especially, if you are a good looking female...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #24
  • Mar 20, 2016 6:07pm Mar 20, 2016 6:07pm
Quoting midouch
{quote} So I have more chances if I just go random and do not listen to TA/FA, right?

No if you go random you will lose, the markets are not random. If you go with the herd you will be slaughtered, so don't trade according to the traditional technical analysis.
  • #25
  • Mar 21, 2016 4:57am Mar 21, 2016 4:57am
Quoting Hurst
{quote} No if you go random you will lose, the markets are not random. If you go with the herd you will be slaughtered, so don't trade according to the traditional technical analysis.
That is a dumb catch-phrase to scare newbies. "If you go with the herd you will be slaughtered". If the herd (price) moves into a certain direction you got to move with it, or you get stopped out.
Price-Action Extremist
  • #26
  • Mar 21, 2016 7:09am Mar 21, 2016 7:09am
There is manipulation, but it's likely limited to an extent. If every price action movement proved to be false, no one would trade price action. If every news event worked the opposite way, nobody would trade the news.

From what I've seen personally, some news is already factored in to whatever trades a bank wants to do. What I mean by that, is if there is a lot of big news (looking in your general direction Britain) coming up tomorrow, the big banks already know it. They might very well start a strong daily move going the other way in order to sucker in the inexperienced traders. Then the news hits, it's surprisingly strong the other way, then nothing happens for half a day, THEN it moves. I've seen many times big news comes out, price moves in accordance quickly, then moves the wrong way (or the way that defies the fundamentals) for about an hour, before finally moving on the expected path. Imagine how many people bought (or sold) into the news, only to have their stops cleared, before the news finally moves their way.

That right there is the manipulation. They can't go the wrong or unexpected way every single time indefinitely, but they can push it the opposite way for a brief period of time, hit some stops and make some bank, before letting the market go the way it should go in accordance with its determining factors.

Manipulation does exist, but it's not on a grand scale. Banks are day traders most of the time, with the occasional swing trades.

It's all greed and fear. If you don't cave into either of those, you'll come out profitable.
  • #27
  • Mar 21, 2016 7:16am Mar 21, 2016 7:16am
Quoting bagman
{quote} That is a dumb catch-phrase to scare newbies. "If you go with the herd you will be slaughtered". If the herd (price) moves into a certain direction you got to move with it, or you get stopped out.

Think about it, a small amount of traders make money...not the masses, do what you want but ask yourself the question. Who make money in the market is it everyone or only a fraction of people. Then see what I wrote and you will realise the sense in the sttement, at least I hope you do.
  • #28
  • Mar 21, 2016 7:22am Mar 21, 2016 7:22am
Quoting Hurst
{quote} Think about it, a small amount of traders make money...not the masses, do what you want but ask yourself the question. Who make money in the market is it everyone or only a fraction of people. Then see what I wrote and you will realise the sense in the sttement, at least I hope you do.
In my analogy the price is the donkey herd. Not the other traders. If you bet the price to go down and you set a 10 pip stop, and it goes up 10 pips then you get run over.

Here is a statistic showing that 35% of clients are profitable with some large brokers.
http://www.financemagnates.com/forex...roved-trading/
Price-Action Extremist
  • #29
  • Mar 21, 2016 7:25am Mar 21, 2016 7:25am
Quoting 4xNewGuy
There is manipulation, but it's likely limited to an extent. If every price action movement proved to be false, no one would trade price action. If every news event worked the opposite way, nobody would trade the news. From what I've seen personally, some news is already factored in to whatever trades a bank wants to do. What I mean by that, is if there is a lot of big news (looking in your general direction Britain) coming up tomorrow, the big banks already know it. They might very well start a strong daily move going the other way in order to...

That is not manipulation. That is someone with a lot more money than you betting in another direction than you did. And there is no wrong way a price can move. It just does what it wants.
Price-Action Extremist
  • #30
  • Mar 21, 2016 12:03pm Mar 21, 2016 12:03pm
Hi bagman,

If some banks or traders move the price in the unexpected way"ONLY" to hunt for stops and kick out both shorts and longs that's manipulation. I do not know how you can't calll it. Out of interest, are you among the few pct of traders that make money and survive it?
  • #31
  • Mar 21, 2016 12:43pm Mar 21, 2016 12:43pm
Quoting midouch
Hi bagman, If some banks or traders move the price in the unexpected way"ONLY" to hunt for stops and kick out both shorts and longs that's manipulation. I do not know how you can't calll it. Out of interest, are you among the few pct of traders that make money and survive it?
1. You can not kick out short and long. You can only kick out the idiots with a tight stop loss.
2. Price moving against you is not manipulation.
3. Survive what?


You make it sound like everyone moving in your direction is one happy family of loving and sharing and everyone betting the other side is an evil speculator.
Price-Action Extremist
  • #32
  • Mar 21, 2016 12:58pm Mar 21, 2016 12:58pm
Quoting bagman
{quote} What I meant is that he learned that a certain pattern has to behave a certain way. There is no manipulation if price does not do what you want it to do.
Exxxxactly.
  • #33
  • Mar 21, 2016 1:08pm Mar 21, 2016 1:08pm
Scrupulous bunch

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...it-off-clients

http://www.bloombergview.com/article...anipulating-fx
  • #34
  • Mar 21, 2016 1:55pm Mar 21, 2016 1:55pm
Quoting bagman
{quote} 1. You can not kick out short and long. You can only kick out the idiots with a tight stop loss. 2. Price moving against you is not manipulation. 3. Survive what? You make it sound like everyone moving in your direction is one happy family of loving and sharing and everyone betting the other side is an evil speculator.
Never said that, you're missing the point completely
  • #35
  • Mar 22, 2016 3:28am Mar 22, 2016 3:28am
Quoting bagman
{quote} That is not manipulation. That is someone with a lot more money than you betting in another direction than you did. And there is no wrong way a price can move. It just does what it wants.
Maybe you ought to look up the definition of the word manipulation. Top traders that work for banks know what systems out there that some retail forex traders use. Their motive is to create conditions that would entice traders to trade the opposite way that the bank traders want to go. So they start accumulating trades against retail traders at specific prices. Some banks can even see where traders place their stops. Are you telling me that a financial institution, who makes money only when I lose, is not going to use its substantially greater equity to sway my judgement into going the opposite way that it wants to go?

They literally have more information, and vastly more power than retail traders do. It baffles me that people think markets are some sort of independent, sentient beings, that go the way they want to go based on their own whims. Not every market move is calculated/manipulated, but some definitely are.
  • #36
  • Mar 22, 2016 5:56am Mar 22, 2016 5:56am
Quoting 4xNewGuy
{quote} Maybe you ought to look up the definition of the word manipulation. Top traders that work for banks know what systems out there that some retail forex traders use. Their motive is to create conditions that would entice traders to trade the opposite way that the bank traders want to go. So they start accumulating trades against retail traders at specific prices. Some banks can even see where traders place their stops. Are you telling me that a financial institution, who makes money only when I lose, is not going to use its substantially greater...
Put your stop in the obvious place you get stopped out. No manipulation. Just free market.
Price-Action Extremist
  • #37
  • Mar 22, 2016 5:59am Mar 22, 2016 5:59am
Quoting midouch
{quote} Never said that, you're missing the point completely
No, you missed the point. There is no unexpected way. For every forex trade there is 2 expectable directions, up or down.
Price-Action Extremist
  • #38
  • Mar 22, 2016 8:33am Mar 22, 2016 8:33am
Quoting 4xNewGuy
{quote}... They literally have more information, and vastly more power than retail traders do. ....
And that is why they - for the most part - don't care what we do.

As an analogy do the U.S. care what Vanuatu does?
  • #39
  • Mar 22, 2016 3:46pm Mar 22, 2016 3:46pm
Quoting SunTrader
{quote} And that is why they - for the most part - don't care what we do. As an analogy do the U.S. care what Vanuatu does?
Exactly.
  • #40
  • Mar 22, 2016 4:15pm Mar 22, 2016 4:15pm
manipulated?

I guess the banks are bat shit hungry for any penny that they are willing to move an entire market so that they can stop hunt my 0.01 lots.
practising coitus interruptus
0 traders viewing now