How can such a huge market be manipulated? | Forex Factory

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How can such a huge market be manipulated?

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 19, 2016 8:22pm Mar 19, 2016 8:22pm
Hello,

This is not coincidence. Can't complain enough about the times I've seen a bearish hourly candle turns to a weak / or even a bull in the last few seconds before candle close, and vice versa. Does this mean that markets are manipulated? Does it make sense that people take profit only few seconds before the hourly close? Because it does not convince me, and the amount of times I've seen this (especially on GBPUSD) is outrageous. I mean it, I am sure it is not just coincidence, it seems like a pattern that repeats itself over and over. Is it just me or everyone else notice the same?

I get the feeling always that the market is a "human" who is smarter than me by ages. How? The market should be global, nobody controlling the prices, etc etc. But everytime I open the charts, put trades, take profit or loss it never is a pleasant journey. It looks to me as the market is smarter than you and going against you regardless if you're long or short.

Not sure what other people think about it, maybe just me,

Thanks!
  • #2
  • Mar 20, 2016 12:48am Mar 20, 2016 12:48am
Controlling prices is normal human behavior - that is how monopolistic structures occur - and the main reason why markets shouldn't be allowed to "self-regulate". Therefore you have government's intervention system (of which the socialistic-communistic system is on one extreme end (for which has been proven zillion times it produces the worst kind of monopolistic structures ever tailored)) and a nice modern capitalistic system of which there is some intervention of government in markets - BUT not enough in order to prevent "manipulation". As I see it - it is not in their interest to do so, because you know....MONEY.

What traders fail to realize sooner or later is the general human psychology. 99% of people act alike. 99% of people enter at "support and resistance".

Key moment happens when those 1% see what those 99% do. It is absolutely normal (please let's not talk about morality, not in the mood to fill that barrel), for those 1% to simply spike the price in needed direction in order to CLEAN UP ALL THOSE PENDING STOP LOSSES IN BOTH DIRECTIONS - it is how they earn for a living. I repeat - I see nothing wrong with it.

What IS wrong is after the "stop loss cleanup stage", market "makers" initiate profit taking stage where THEIR orders make profit - not ours. That happens in 99% of cases, ergo, 99% of wannabe traders WILL fail.

In other words, be careful - and in some point in time - that carefulness WILL pay off. That's what those 1% do.

In other "other" words - try to think like a market manipulator with an unlimited buying power. In order to do that one also needs to comprehend how bid/ask is filled and slippage and spreads etc etc...Until you do that - you are 99%.

Btw - thinking and executing are two completely different things for us. Since we HAVE NO CLUE where will the markets go. For those 1% - they don't need to think. Since they SEE all our orders.
  • #3
  • Mar 20, 2016 2:25am Mar 20, 2016 2:25am
Quoting midouch
Hello, This is not coincidence. Can't complain enough about the times I've seen a bearish hourly candle turns to a weak / or even a bull in the last few seconds before candle close, and vice versa. Does this mean that markets are manipulated? Does it make sense that people take profit only few seconds before the hourly close? Because it does not convince me, and the amount of times I've seen this (especially on GBPUSD) is outrageous. I mean it, I am sure it is not just coincidence, it seems like a pattern that repeats itself over and over. Is it...
How can such a huge market be manipulated?

Spot retail forex ?
If you are referring to as "huge" as being a "5 trillion daily market", this is grossly incorrect.
  • #4
  • Mar 20, 2016 11:12am Mar 20, 2016 11:12am
Quoting midouch
Hello, This is not coincidence. Can't complain enough about the times I've seen a bearish hourly candle turns to a weak / or even a bull in the last few seconds before candle close, and vice versa. Does this mean that markets are manipulated? Does it make sense that people take profit only few seconds before the hourly close? Because it does not convince me, and the amount of times I've seen this (especially on GBPUSD) is outrageous. I mean it, I am sure it is not just coincidence, it seems like a pattern that repeats itself over and over. Is it...


Do you think you earned the right to make money because you learned a pattern from a book?
Price-Action Extremist
  • #5
  • Mar 20, 2016 11:26am Mar 20, 2016 11:26am
Maybe I'm going crazy but WTF. I cannot for the life of me find where the OP mentioned a pattern from a book.

Quoting bagman
{quote} Do you think you earned the right to make money because you learned a pattern from a book?
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #6
  • Mar 20, 2016 11:29am Mar 20, 2016 11:29am
Quoting midouch
Hello, This is not coincidence. Can't complain enough about the times I've seen a bearish hourly candle turns to a weak / or even a bull in the last few seconds before candle close, and vice versa. Does this mean that markets are manipulated? Does it make sense that people take profit only few seconds before the hourly close? Because it does not convince me, and the amount of times I've seen this (especially on GBPUSD) is outrageous. I mean it, I am sure it is not just coincidence, it seems like a pattern that repeats itself over and over....
What I meant is that he learned that a certain pattern has to behave a certain way. There is no manipulation if price does not do what you want it to do.
Price-Action Extremist
  • #7
  • Mar 20, 2016 11:31am Mar 20, 2016 11:31am
Ok, you noticed a pattern. How will you now use this to profit from the next time you see it. That's trading my friend. The sooner you stop worrying about hocus pocus and manipulation, the sooner you will be consistently green.

Quoting midouch
Hello, This is not coincidence. Can't complain enough about the times I've seen a bearish hourly candle turns to a weak / or even a bull in the last few seconds before candle close, and vice versa. Does this mean that markets are manipulated? Does it make sense that people take profit only few seconds before the hourly close? Because it does not convince me, and the amount of times I've seen this (especially on GBPUSD) is outrageous. I mean it, I am sure it is not just coincidence, it seems like a pattern that repeats itself over and over. Is it...
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #8
  • Mar 20, 2016 11:39am Mar 20, 2016 11:39am
Quoting JoeNY
Ok, you noticed a pattern. How will you now use this to profit from the next time you see it. That's trading my friend. The sooner you stop worrying about hocus pocus and manipulation, the sooner you will be consistently green. {quote}
Yes, forget about patterns and consistent money making. Is the FX market manipulated or not?
  • #9
  • Mar 20, 2016 11:41am Mar 20, 2016 11:41am
Quoting bagman
{quote} Do you think you earned the right to make money because you learned a pattern from a book?
Books are useless. I never mentioned I learnt a pattern from a book. But please if you want to participate share your opinion, are the FX market prices controlled/manipulated to work in a specific way to hunt both sides of the trades or not?
  • #10
  • Mar 20, 2016 11:41am Mar 20, 2016 11:41am
Quoting midouch
{quote} Yes, forget about patterns and consistent money making. Is the FX market manipulated or not?
The question is what do you mean by manipulated?
Price-Action Extremist
  • #11
  • Mar 20, 2016 11:45am Mar 20, 2016 11:45am
Quoting bagman
{quote} The question is what do you mean by manipulated?
In my own observation? and in simple words: The big fish "controls" the price by certain price movements to wipe out both sides of the trade in a skillful manner to eat small fish and then small fish is out of the market. A war of power.
  • #12
  • Mar 20, 2016 12:11pm Mar 20, 2016 12:11pm
Quoting midouch
{quote} In my own observation? and in simple words: The big fish "controls" the price by certain price movements to wipe out both sides of the trade in a skillful manner to eat small fish and then small fish is out of the market. A war of power.
How is that manipulation?
Price-Action Extremist
  • #13
  • Mar 20, 2016 12:41pm Mar 20, 2016 12:41pm
No, it's not. It's fair game. Good luck with your trading!
  • #14
  • Mar 20, 2016 12:45pm Mar 20, 2016 12:45pm
Quoting bagman
{quote} How is that manipulation?
Manipulation - "exerting shrewd or devious influence especially for one's own advantage"

Psychological Manipulation - is a type of social influence that aims to change the behavior or perception of others through abusive, deceptive or underhanded tactics!!

Making hundreds of millions of dollars I think would constitute, influence or underhanded tactics!!

Just think of the old cattle auction story and some big old ranhcer who owns 15-25% of the cattle decides to play with the market.

To add, you only need to move the market a small portion in your favour, to actually move the market in your favour
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Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #15
  • Mar 20, 2016 12:53pm Mar 20, 2016 12:53pm
Quoting midouch
Hello, This is not coincidence. Can't complain enough about the times I've seen a bearish hourly candle turns to a weak / or even a bull in the last few seconds before candle close, and vice versa. Does this mean that markets are manipulated? Does it make sense that people take profit only few seconds before the hourly close? Because it does not convince me, and the amount of times I've seen this (especially on GBPUSD) is outrageous. I mean it, I am sure it is not just coincidence, it seems like a pattern that repeats itself over and over. Is it...
It is a mindfuck isn't it?
Is it just pure random or is it manipulated?
It certainly isn't rational....
My advice...See it as all the above and trade with that in mind.
The longer you are in this business the more "random" the market seems , but yet one tends to be better equiped to deal with it.
The bottom line is "the market is beatable".
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #16
  • Edited 1:40pm Mar 20, 2016 12:57pm | Edited 1:40pm
What kind of answer are you looking for?

OK,... All the big banks are in bed together. There ya go. So what... Everything is manipulated at some point. Price is public. Figure it out and ride the manipulation wave. At the end of the day, the market is right. Everyone's looking to take the money including you.

If you have something to say, just say it. When a thread starts off as foreplay, my bullshit meter goes off the the chart.

I got suckered into another pointless thread started by a member......... well whatever. Back to FF rehab I go... this place blows...


Quoting midouch
{quote} Yes, forget about patterns and consistent money making. Is the FX market manipulated or not?
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #17
  • Mar 20, 2016 1:36pm Mar 20, 2016 1:36pm
The markets of course are manipulated, everybody here has seen price falling only to watch it rise again and take out their stops. Why did it not just go up? The reason is someone has to take the other side of your trade. If you sell the market makers have to buy and visaversa. So if you wonder why price moves than suddenly reverses its because, the MM have to fill their books, when they buy price falls. So if you see the market falling it means MM are buying. To encourage you to act they will often move price in the opposite direction to encourage you to buy or sell to them. They then acquire their position and they will then take the market to their desired destination.

Market makers will also take highs and lows, because the main body of traders are taught to put their stops above ore below a high. This provides an ample supply of orders to the MM, so they will target these areas as they are full of orders. If you think this is a gentlemans club where people play by the rules then think again.

This is a dirty cheating world where everyone is out to get you, if you knew where the stops and profit takes were, it would be so much easier. Ask your broker for the indicator that allows you to see other peoples orders on your platform, including PT areas and stop levels. You see these are the indicators they use and would be great to have, but instead we get RSI MACD and all the other crap.

If you knew an order to buy 100000 contracts at 199.2 and you place your order in there you can front run the order and make free money. You think your brokers don't do that?
  • #18
  • Mar 20, 2016 2:01pm Mar 20, 2016 2:01pm
Quoting Hurst
The markets of course are manipulated, everybody here has seen price falling only to watch it rise again and take out their stops. Why did it not just go up? The reason is someone has to take the other side of your trade. If you sell the market makers have to buy and visaversa. So if you wonder why price moves than suddenly reverses its because, the MM have to fill their books, when they buy price falls. So if you see the market falling it means MM are buying. To encourage you to act they will often move price in the opposite direction to encourage...
So I have more chances if I just go random and do not listen to TA/FA, right?
  • #19
  • Mar 20, 2016 3:04pm Mar 20, 2016 3:04pm
Everything that is and will be created by the humans can and it will be manipulated, if humans are involved in it's controll.

Where exactly do you want to start to get confident in that obvious to me statement? Religion, mind, relationship, news manipulation?!? These are just a few (examples).

How about the money? Or money and markets cannot be manipulated?!? Who run them (money and markets), if not humans??? It's a rethorical question. No need to answer it...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #20
  • Mar 20, 2016 3:13pm Mar 20, 2016 3:13pm
Quoting MoneyZilla
Everything that is and will be created by the humans can and it will be manipulated, if humans are involved in it's controll. Where exactly do you want to start to get confident in that obvious to me statement? Religion, mind, relationship, news manipulation?!? These are just a few (examples). How about the money? Or money and markets cannot be manipulated?!? Who run them (money and markets), if not humans??? It's a rethorical question. No need to answer it...
Makes sense.
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