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  • #1,081
  • Jan 17, 2016 11:40pm Jan 17, 2016 11:40pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} Because you have been right about so much so far {quote} Which part of FX is centralized? Please do tell! :nerd: You have no education, that's the problem. You've half-read bits and pieces from places and formed your own conclusion which is nothing but a Frankenstein's monster of misinformation that you are glad to perpetuate. Don't! Enough is enough. You really are ridiculous with the things you claim with such a straight face and nothing but naive honesty. I'm not sure you've ever had a post that wasn't flawed in one way or...
You can't read, that's the problem.

Where did I ever say FX was centralized? I said only centralized markets do not cross the spread.

FX is not centralized, and that's why I said "this is only the case with FX" because obviously it's not centralized..
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #1,082
  • Jan 17, 2016 11:46pm Jan 17, 2016 11:46pm
I asked legitimate questions such as how he perform his "stop hunts"

He must have put me on ignore a while ago when I bitched him out

Dude must be delusional if he believes he can stop hunt by himself.

Thats a collaborative effort by smart money who removes liquidity in between market price and then replace the liquidity where they anticipate stops to be. They can do this because there orders do not cross the market.

But one trader or even one institution cannot do this alone.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #1,083
  • Jan 18, 2016 12:04am Jan 18, 2016 12:04am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} This is what I do when I see other people's stops: I run them. When I run stops, I don't use stops on those runs, because my targets are usually less than say 20 pips for a short term kill. Some guys go for more, I guess I'm not that greedy. I do use mental stops however in case my runs go sour. That takes discipline which the Banks pay me big bucks for. When I run stops, trend direction is always at the back of my mind, but not a factor because, as I've implied, my targets are very short term. I don't use technical tools other than my...

LOL... if the implication here is that I ran stops on my own, apologies all around.

I have mentioned before in the thread that I ran stops in confederation with others.

The meat in that post is not the semantics but I guess for some people, Po TAY toes vs Po TAH toes is a big deal. Oh well...

Moving on.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,084
  • Jan 18, 2016 6:30pm Jan 18, 2016 6:30pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} lol... If the implication here is that i ran stops on my own, apologies all around. i have mentioned before in the thread that i ran stops in confederation with others. The meat in that post is not the semantics but i guess for some people, po tay toes vs po tah toes is a big deal. Oh well... Moving on.

hahaha... Do we trade here or we chat here :d
  • #1,085
  • Feb 26, 2016 10:50pm Feb 26, 2016 10:50pm
2016, heard bonus used to be 3-4x base back in the day..much has changed. You can make a lot more in tech or medicine.
  • #1,086
  • Feb 26, 2016 10:56pm Feb 26, 2016 10:56pm
The herd always buy high and sell low
As long as they do, they will always be dismayed and frustrated with what they perceive as "stop running"
  • #1,087
  • Feb 27, 2016 4:14am Feb 27, 2016 4:14am
Quoting fullperson
2016, heard bonus used to be 3-4x base back in the day..much has changed. You can make a lot more in tech or medicine.
Look, even if it still was that way, jobs are being cut. I took a walk through our FX department 2 months or so ago. Empty desks, not even screens or keyboards on them. Just many empty huge desks. And yes we are one of the main liquidity providers world wide.
The times where you make the big bucks are not entirely over but it has narrowed down to handful of people. I know one guy who is (saw the account statement with my own eyes) working as a trader at a bank in the ranks of JP Morgan or Deutsche. Base salary USD 27k per month and two bonuses: 110k and 258k.. So something like 660k per year. But he is the typical guy for it: Born in the early 70s, go figure it from there. Finished studies probably in 95. Worked his way up during 5 years (yup you could become Director in 5 years at these times), survived 2001 dotcom burst and then made a killing till 2007/08 and then got lucky to be a prop trader with some programming skills or even in the derivatives trading where you can't (yet) put everything into an algo. But how many are there like him? In the whole world I'd say a handful. Maybe 250 people total worldwide, 450-500 tops. Maybe skenobi will correct me on the numbers, I'd be happy to get a realistic input.
The big bucks are just elsewhere in a bank. It's simple, look up the annual report and divide the salary expenses by the number of employees. For Credit Suisse average salary should be around CHF 250'000 per month in 2014. But even if we take out the director's board out of the equation and give them their questionable big bonuses, then we still end up with a nice 200-220k per employee. Do you think the guy at the front desk ordering your new credit card gets this? No, he'll be making 60-70k CHF per year. And so are 30-40% of the other employees. A smaller and smaller percentage is making the bigger and bigger bucks. But boy there is still some nice cash to be made. It's just not realistic to get into the Investment Bank and make the cash. The places are reserved already and nobody will give em up. So you gotta look elsewhere (hint: it's not compliance).


@Mingary: buying high and selling low is not a problem. As long as you buy high and sell higher and sell low to sell lower, you're still good
Demo only
  • #1,088
  • Feb 27, 2016 6:06am Feb 27, 2016 6:06am
Quoting bg_sunny
{quote} As long as you buy high and sell higher and sell low to sell lower, you're still good
I think you mean as long as you buy high and sell higher and sell low to BUY lower. While that may work, why complicated things. Just buy low and sell high. First off get a broker that is a big well known broker that has gmt + 2 charts(ny close charts which has the day candle considered to be the official close and open of the forex day). Then put daily pivots on. For long wait for price to hit ds2 or ds3 for the first time in the day. For short wait for price to hit dr2 or dr3 for the first time in the day. Just switch to the minute chart and enjoy 20 to 40 pips about 75% of the time. That is the best example of buying low and selling high. Any trading that in the middle of these extremes should be traded with the same concept of buy low and sell high. Its all about target prices meaning where are buyers more willing to buy than sellers are willing to sell(low) and where are sellers more willing to sell than buyers are willing to buy(high)
  • #1,089
  • Feb 27, 2016 8:26am Feb 27, 2016 8:26am
I stop in this thread from time to time to share what I can from the US stock and futures sides of institutional trading. First and foremost, you will learn to trade if you trade at an Investment Bank, you will learn a fairly sophisticated yet structurally simple way to trade...then they drill that method into your head until you think you may lose your marbles. Then they sent me to a prop house for 2 years or so and I got to prove I learned trading and can execute, all before you get to the floor, backroom, wherever you are going to trade.

As far as bonuses go, not much has changed, though I think the bonuses are smaller. My former colleagues seem to be getting about 80% of what they got during the hot days of trading. That being said, if my boss ever offered me 3-4 times my salary as a bonus and my tally sheet showed my numbers were exceptional, that boss would be eligible for introduction to my well practiced right-left combination to his jaw.

Since I retired from one big trading house I have developed a specialty of trading credit default swaps, since there are trillions of dollars worth of these questionable financial instruments floating around the world I have kept myself in demand. I don't see any break soon. I only work as an independent contractor now because I don't want to work any moron boss....remember, if you can't trade worth a darn and have kissed enough butt on the way up they will make you a manager. I've had great managers and managers that I did the opposite whenever they instructed me to do something.

I was a little disappointed to hear that individuals feel like they can't break into the system. Trading for any firm is a straight meritocracy. If you can trade better than 90% of your colleagues you can cuss you boss out every morning and you aren't going anywhere....I would not advise that practice, however. The point is; whether your are on the CME on LaSalle Street in Chicago or Wall Street in New York, if you do your homework and can trade like a demon you are going to be able to write your own ticket. Both exchanges are loaded with quant-type traders and method traders who turn in good quality numbers but nothing to get very excited about, but if you are someone you can show them your skills as a discretionary trader you can write your own ticket. A good discretionary trader is a rare bird...except in all these crazy websites I see that claim to make huge sums with 2 point stops or some such idiocy, I guess people believe that stuff.

My advice: Run as fast as you can from any system based approach to trading, read every book about trading you can and start pestering someone at one of the big houses until you get your chance and then let all the information flow and perform like you know you can, or you can go to these investment houses with an MBA and be an Investment Banker, something I consider lower than an earthworm but that is just me....lol

My point is simple, if you want to trade futures or stocks, the only thing holding you back is your ability...learn to trade with 85% accuracy, then push for more, notice everything on the chart like a human computer, figure out the correlation of price action most people don't notice but is a dead ringer for upcoming action and ABOVE ALL LEARN THE MATHEMATICS BEHIND PROBABILITY AND TRADING. It will save you a lot of heartache.

If you can flat-out trade you can write your ticket for just about anywhere you go....I was just thinking about the 3-4 times my salary bonus statement because my bonus review is coming up and if it's 3 times my salary someone gonna have a black eye....hahaha
  • #1,090
  • Feb 27, 2016 9:21am Feb 27, 2016 9:21am
Quoting srmfx
{quote} If you wonder whether the bank dealers "work" together, you can read this: http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/publi...duct111114.pdf
sorry srmfx, i bring up some old post,

so what they doing is illegal or not? had them been fire or been jail ?
  • #1,091
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:36am Feb 27, 2016 10:36am
Quoting warbee
{quote} sorry srmfx, i bring up some old post, so what they doing is illegal or not? had them been fire or been jail ?
I'm not a lawyer.
  • #1,092
  • Feb 27, 2016 11:02am Feb 27, 2016 11:02am
How easy would it be to front run any move of size; better yet, get a nice group of fellas in your position and collude to move the price to positions where you/bank can profit. Even on the highly regulated NYSE, you often see a couple of major operations of this nature getting busted, I just can't fathom what the level of front running is where everyone works on the honor system, essentially. Money generally trumps honor, with rare exceptions
  • #1,093
  • Feb 28, 2016 10:34am Feb 28, 2016 10:34am
Quoting trader7757
I stop in this thread from time to time to share what I can from the US stock and futures sides of institutional trading. First and foremost, you will learn to trade if you trade at an Investment Bank, you will learn a fairly sophisticated yet structurally simple way to trade...then they drill that method into your head until you think you may lose your marbles. Then they sent me to a prop house for 2 years or so and I got to prove I learned trading and can execute, all before you get to the floor, backroom, wherever you are going to trade. As far...
Bonus? Salary? I assume you are employed somewhere. I'd like to challenge you:
In times of 1:400 leverage, if you are as good as you claim you are (85% hit rate, did I get this right?), why do you work for somebody and not trade for yourself? Don't even try and come with retirement plans and insurance...
I'm interested why a sane human would go to work if you can trade profitably.
Demo only
  • #1,094
  • Feb 28, 2016 10:36am Feb 28, 2016 10:36am
Quoting trader7757
Money generally trumps honor, with rare exceptions
Demo only
  • #1,095
  • Feb 28, 2016 12:53pm Feb 28, 2016 12:53pm
Quote
why do you work for somebody and not trade for yourself?

haha...I don't recall ever saying that I don't trade for myself. I am my favorite client. That being said, why can't I trade others peoples money and trade for an institution, too?
  • #1,096
  • Feb 28, 2016 7:07pm Feb 28, 2016 7:07pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} How can you NEVER have noticed that your "limit" orders ALWAYS cross the spread? What part of crossing the spread has ever suggested to you that you are providing liquidity, instead of taking liquidity? Do you now understand why maybe you should shut up, sit down, and do some reading and pay some attention? Seriously.

Retail feed may* not show everything the HFT market makers do & it's not very clear what level of data are you looking at. If Rags got say the low of the day, you say his limit in that case also crossed spread? *(pretending here that retail data is same as hft dealer data)
  • #1,097
  • Feb 28, 2016 11:54pm Feb 28, 2016 11:54pm
Quoting trader7757
{quote} haha...I don't recall ever saying that I don't trade for myself. I am my favorite client. That being said, why can't I trade others peoples money and trade for an institution, too?
Don't know about you but I have severe tradig restrictions like 7-30 days min. holding period and also most assets need to go through 2 (TWO!) approvals before I can place my order. You must be working at a place which is not a bank.
Demo only
  • #1,098
  • Feb 29, 2016 2:07am Feb 29, 2016 2:07am
Quoting trader7757
{quote} haha...I don't recall ever saying that I don't trade for myself. I am my favorite client. That being said, why can't I trade others peoples money and trade for an institution, too?
I read his bg_sunny's post prior. No one's saying you "can't" trade OPM (at least I don't THINK that's what he's saying). He just wanted to know "why bother". Of course, if you don't want to answer him, that's your call.

(Disclaimer: I personally don't need to know your answer, however. I've heard it all before. Other people may find it interesting and thus I'm just helping the discussion along. )

Quoting bg_sunny
{quote} Don't know about you but I have severe tradig restrictions like 7-30 days min. holding period and also most assets need to go through 2 (TWO!) approvals before I can place my order. You must be working at a place which is not a bank.
I guess trader7757 must have an advantage (?) that you currently do not have. Is it a big deal for you that other people may have advantages that you don't have or that other people have more discretionary powers than you do?

If it IS a big deal for you then perhaps you're working for the wrong bank?

BTW, bg_sunny, you mentioned my name in your earlier post. I don't have much to say about industry compensation trends anymore and also the possible number of people in the world who can make the same obscene amounts in bonus payouts. I WILL say that the worldwide number is likely still higher than your "400-500 tops", but that's just my opinion not based on anything scientific or observable to the man on the street.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,099
  • Feb 29, 2016 2:16pm Feb 29, 2016 2:16pm
Quoting skenobi
He just wanted to know "why bother".
Exactly.

Quoting skenobi
Is it a big deal for you that other people may have advantages that you don't have or that other people have more discretionary powers than you do?
I learned not to look into other peoples plates. That being said I couldn't care less who has what advantage or what discretionary power unless I can make use of this for myself.
Let's not make this personal.

It is interesting to learn that restrictions differ in the industry. With all the trials and fines because of frontrunning and insider trading over the last years I assumed, that industry standards existed when it comes to staff trading. Apparently this is not the case.
Demo only
  • #1,100
  • Mar 6, 2016 11:54am Mar 6, 2016 11:54am
I was doing a bit of review of the week and I noticed what's labeled in the picture below.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Untitled.png Size: 77 KB

I don't think the markets are convenient like this, but I was curious what general information anyone has to say about the role of time in institutional trading. Is there anything to learn from this or is it purely coincidental?
"Mrrraggglhlhghghlgh"
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