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  • #3,101
  • Feb 27, 2016 6:22am Feb 27, 2016 6:22am
Quoting nigpig
My interpretation of Dove's description produces a guess as shown in this picture. If the SAR and DB go from top to bottom of candles then this shape will happen. Any comments anyone. Edit. I have decided to remove my guess image as I think on reflection it will confuse rather than help. Sorry.
What I've read is that in a trend, at the beginning of it, the DB and SAR are attached together. When the SAR takes off first and attaches to a candle. On the next candle, if the DB is not attached, then the SAR is set in stone. Now, I'm not quite sure what to do with that info yet but I'm still studying...

In consolidation, if you have the DB attached with a price tag, you have an entry. It could go higher or lower but the 40 PIP SL should keep you in until the reversal.

If my understanding is incorrect, someone please comment.
~ Tim
  • #3,102
  • Feb 27, 2016 6:58am Feb 27, 2016 6:58am
Quoting Repoman
{quote} What I've read is that in a trend, at the beginning of it, the DB and SAR are attached together. When the SAR takes off first and attaches to a candle. On the next candle, if the DB is not attached, then the SAR is set in stone. Now, I'm not quite sure what to do with that info yet but I'm still studying... In consolidation, if you have the DB attached with a price tag, you have an entry. It could go higher or lower but the 40 PIP SL should keep you in until the reversal. If my understanding is incorrect, someone please comment.
If I may give you an advice, Dove's post 2951 is the best explanation of the SAR "set in stone" and how you should use that info.
  • #3,103
  • Feb 27, 2016 7:16am Feb 27, 2016 7:16am
Quoting Masik
{quote} If I may give you an advice, Dove's post 2951 is the best explanation of the SAR "set in stone" and how you should use that info.
Yes, thanks. That's where I'm getting the info. I copied and pasted it into Word and am accumulating the data as I go. I'm reading it over and over to help get an understanding. I'm sure things will become clearer as we get further into it next week. Very exciting and interesting!
~ Tim
  • #3,104
  • Feb 27, 2016 8:20am Feb 27, 2016 8:20am
Quoting Masik
{quote} As far as I understood, the SAR attached to the bottom of a candle means that the trend in the swing is down. And when the trend is down the SAR have to be traded from the top. Given that, two scenarios would come next week in my opinion: 1) The market will go down confirming the trend down and forming new lower lows. This makes the DB and the SAR be coincident and the SAR will disappear. 2) The market will retrace up towards the zero point of the FIBO without reaching it and then retrace back again for the down at the PSAR that is Resistance....
Like Dove underlined in his post I forgot that 1H and 2H are not in sync because the 1H is still up. So for the long term trading it's not yet the right set up.
  • #3,105
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:18am Feb 27, 2016 10:18am
A - "fibo highs and lows" are the "reference for the entries" - I don't quite understand this statement. Do we (a) want to enter at the 0-fib, or (b) once we see the fibo flip (and the 0 at the high using the current market situation for example purposes), start looking for conditions that would indicate an entry?

We are now talking about long term which means long term begins with the Fibo flip at the 0%. Usually on the flip you are in consolidation and patience in waiting for proper setup is a criteria.

B -The DB will continue attaching to new bar highs as the market moves up. At what point does it stop attaching to new bars? Does the market crossing the EMA have something to do with indicating that the DB will no longer move in the previous connection and now seek to connect in the opposite direction? [You mentioned the EMA arrows in this post so I thought perhaps they had something to do with it...]. The yellow dashed line along the bottoms, and the green dashed line across the tops, I believe, shows prior DB connection points. So for example, on Thursday, DB looks to have initially connected at 124.216. The market retraced down, but then pushed back up and made a new high to which DB is now currently attached. Perhaps this is a bad example because the fibo had not flipped at that point. However, not that it has, how do we know that the DB will remain at the top and fibo 0 will not move up higher? Or maybe we do not know that...

Again this is not long term you are speaking about. The ending of long term is with the Fibo flip. Until the Fibo flip the trend is in and the action is between the 0% and the 100%. And the turn of the market in swing or trend is visually with Smooth/Purple on the 2 hour.

C - With the current situation as Friday ended, you say because of the consolidation, SAR will retrace back toward the 0 line - how do you know, or do you yet know, that SAR will not exceed the 0 line where DB is?

I did not say that. So go back and re-read what was said.

D - To further upon question C, in your previous example from several weeks ago, we were in a similar situation with the DB and SAR. However, trend was different and I believe I remember correctly that H1 and H2 were both setup for long trends (with EMA > ROMAR). So in that example, how did you know that the retrace back to the 0 line would not exceed the 0 line and cause DB to then move again higher?

Because of the divergence for one and because the Daily ROMAR was Resistance and the market was above the resistance on the Daily and in consolidation. With a 40 pip stop I was safe for the market to return below resistance.

All three charts played a role for that entry.

E - Your last picture of the bottom prior to the past two days' swing up shows that there was a 0 fib and a DB connection at 123.052. SAR retraced up and made a high, then went back down and exceeded the 0 fib, and the DB moved to the new low at 123.033 [this then ultimately ended at the most recent low and 100 fib at 122.433]. So what made this situation different than the high mentioned in question d (granted it is opposite in direction)? The SAR left DB, had retraced up, then pushed back down toward DB. Why, if someone had looked for a short in the setup mentioned in question D, would they not look for a long once SAR reattached at the bottom?

Again it had to do with support and resistance. The Market was down and not in consolidation as it was with the other entry you are speaking of.

F - What determines whether the EMA arrow will be there after the close of the bar? I can't seem to find a pattern as to why the EMA arrow shows in some locations, but other locations, where the market clearly passed the EMA, the arrow does not show.

The arrows will show up during consolidation. In trend they are no longer needed and will not show on trend.

G - Can some point me to where the Divergence is discussed in more detail in the thread? I don't recall every discussing it in more detail, but it seems rather important in terms of why the countertrend trade was taken in the second picture.

We will get more into divergence with the training.
The Dove - Forex Trainer
  • #3,106
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:34am Feb 27, 2016 10:34am
Master, Should I say that DB/SAR attached @124.991 is the starting of the long trend down with 0 FIBO because
I look into H2 Chart,
Found the divergence with DB/SAR attached the top of candle @124.991, indicated no higher high, so the next target of DB will be bottom of candle in the down somewhere
,The SAR swing low has attached to the bottom of candle @124.204 set in the stone, The next target swing will be retrace to the top of candle in the high somewhere, it's may closed to Parabolic upside with H2 Trend down EMA slider we have a chance to entry but we are not in sync between H2 & H1 to pull the trigger

I will wait for the market open but will strictly wait for H1 in sync with H2 before make a decision.
Keith
  • #3,107
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:34am Feb 27, 2016 10:34am
Thank you Dove. As for point C, I was referring to your comment, "And because of the consolidation the SAR will retrace back towards the DB; but not necessarily at the 0 Fibo because at the 0% Both DB/SAR must connect together. So, the SAR could attach without the DB at the Parabolic and continue with the down leaving the DB at the 0 line."

So I was asking what about the current situation indicated that the market would move up toward the PSAR (on the 2HR), but not continue up past the current 0 fib line (thus moving the DB to the top of a new higher bar). I believe I misread your word choice of "COULD attach..."; perhaps we do not know now that the market will not continue up higher.

Thank you again -
  • #3,108
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:40am Feb 27, 2016 10:40am
Quoting SirViver
Very well done explaining this concept Sir, with the recent same charts we have been trading, so that they are meaningful examples for us to understand. I am so looking forward to going back in history over the charts this weekend, for more examples of what you have shared, to try and gain more knowledge and wisdom. What you are taking the time and energy to share with us is truly amazing to me. I can not even imagine how long it must have taken you to fully develop and test this concept of being able to visualize (with confidence) not only what...
Thank you Andy for your kind words. I am only the messenger and nothing more; and believe me - I am far from perfect. And being a man of God my disobedience can cost me much; and has cost me many times in life because of being disobedient with the covenant between me and God. So praise our Lord and thank Him, and not me; It was He that has brought you this far.
The Dove - Forex Trainer
  • #3,109
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:46am Feb 27, 2016 10:46am
Quoting JMaurice
Thank you Dove. As for point C, I was referring to your comment, "And because of the consolidation the SAR will retrace back towards the DB; but not necessarily at the 0 Fibo because at the 0% Both DB/SAR must connect together. So, the SAR could attach without the DB at the Parabolic and continue with the down leaving the DB at the 0 line." So I was asking what about the current situation indicated that the market would move up toward the PSAR (on the 2HR), but not continue up past the current 0 fib line (thus moving the DB to the top of a new higher...
Well - even I do not have the answer in which will come first because of the 1 hour ROMAR being support. As I had said last week we are in a constricted consolidation with the 1 and 2 hours opposite of one another. As of Friday the 2 hour ROMAR had the power holding resistance. And no telling what will happen Sunday with the G20 meetings over the week-end. To be honest - with the G20 would not surprise me in having one huge gap. And know telling which way.
The Dove - Forex Trainer
  • #3,110
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:49am Feb 27, 2016 10:49am
Yesterday i was speaking with a friend and he help me to understand my errors.... after that i start studying my entries and the role of ROMAR with EMA (Main Trend) and the 4 horsemen. (SwingTrend or The Trend Inside of Main Trend). I went to sleep and start dreaming about it hahah that was weird but someone was explain me like an apples and when i wake up i understand everything better and now my mind back from the blindness... Thanks to God.

Now im studyng about DB and SAR entries with the Divergences. Thanks Dana for more information.
  • #3,111
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:50am Feb 27, 2016 10:50am
Quoting dove_alliance
{quote} Well - even I do not have the answer in which will come first because of the 1 hour ROMAR being support. As I had said last week we are in a constricted consolidation with the 1 and 2 hours opposite of one another. As of Friday the 2 hour ROMAR had the power holding resistance. And no telling what will happen Sunday with the G20 meetings over the week-end. To be honest - with the G20 would not surprise me in having one huge gap. And know telling which way.
I understand - thank you. My confusion appears to have been a problem with my reading comprehension. Going back through the thread again this weekend; its amazing to see what previously made no sense to me now makes much more sense. Each time its a little more clear.
  • #3,112
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:55am Feb 27, 2016 10:55am
Quoting JMaurice
{quote} I understand - thank you. My confusion appears to have been a problem with my reading comprehension. Going back through the thread again this weekend; its amazing to see what previously made no sense to me now makes much more sense. Each time its a little more clear.
Yes - once the complexity becomes more visual - you begin to see things in a different light.
The Dove - Forex Trainer
  • #3,113
  • Feb 27, 2016 10:57am Feb 27, 2016 10:57am
Quoting dove_alliance
{quote} Thank you Andy for your kind words. I am only the messenger and nothing more; and believe me - I am far from perfect. And being a man of God my disobedience can cost me much; and has cost me many times in life because of being disobedient with the covenant between me and God. So praise our Lord and thank Him, and not me; It was He that has brought you this far.
yes Sir being disobedient is my stubborn as well, perpetual mistakes that only costs me, stubborn is close to stupid. the only solution for stubborn is humility.
anyway, the first time i thought DB and SAR were only for decoration, and i got annoyed with those lines which gave me hard time and headache, as i thought they were useless, later i just realized they were so powerful as the warning signs.
Your explanation about DB and SAR is clear enough, although i still got confused in the application, but it will be clear once i start to follow the examples.
thank You for this great art.
p.s. i wonder how did You get this wisdom of DB and SAR ?
  • #3,114
  • Feb 27, 2016 11:03am Feb 27, 2016 11:03am
Quoting dove_alliance
{quote} Yes - once the complexity becomes more visual - you begin to see things in a different light.
Dove, may I ask, what time zone do you live in? You mention your trading times at a couple points and I want to compare that to my own. If not, no problem. Thank you.
  • #3,115
  • Feb 27, 2016 11:05am Feb 27, 2016 11:05am
Quoting JMaurice
{quote} Dove, may I ask, what time zone do you live in? You mention your trading times at a couple points and I want to compare that to my own. If not, no problem. Thank you.
His 17:00 is Sydney Open i think
  • #3,116
  • Feb 27, 2016 11:14am Feb 27, 2016 11:14am
Quoting goldtime
{quote} yes Sir being disobedient is my stubborn as well, perpetual mistakes that only costs me, stubborn is close to stupid. the only solution for stubborn is humility. anyway, the first time i thought DB and SAR were only for decoration, and i got annoyed with those lines which gave me hard time and headache, as i thought they were useless, later i just realized they were so powerful as the warning signs. Your explanation about DB and SAR is clear enough, although i still got confused in the application, but it will be clear once i start to follow...
Wisdom comes from my Lord and I struggle day by day because the nature of man in having a free will that does not submit. Submission to the wisdom of God and not the will of man is the threshold of knowledge provided through His wisdom.
The Dove - Forex Trainer
  • #3,117
  • Feb 27, 2016 11:15am Feb 27, 2016 11:15am
Hey Master, i have this question about the SAR ATACHED "stone". If this picture is very confuse i deleted this post.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: stone.png Size: 93 KB
  • #3,118
  • Feb 27, 2016 11:21am Feb 27, 2016 11:21am
Quoting Contrax
Hey Master, i have this question about the SAR ATACHED "stone". If this picture is very confuse i deleted this post. {image}
Daniel - you are anticipating and you cannot do that. Besides - what did i say about the G20.
The Dove - Forex Trainer
  • #3,119
  • Feb 27, 2016 11:27am Feb 27, 2016 11:27am
Quoting dove_alliance
{quote} Wisdom comes from my Lord and I struggle day by day because the nature of man in having a free will that does not submit. Submission to the wisdom of God and not the will of man is the threshold of knowledge provided through His wisdom.
yes Sir, pure free will can bring us to the highest intelligence but when it mixes with pride and abuse then it will end in disasters. and this is the season when the biggest and strongest will fall.
i wonder what was Your background before trading forex. How come someone in his old age can create such thing of Paradox.
thank You
  • #3,120
  • Feb 27, 2016 11:31am Feb 27, 2016 11:31am
One other thing I want to bring up is the Red and Green Arrows:

Once a Red Arrows appears for the down it is set in stone and WILL NOT REPAINT. The next Arrow is Green for the Up and it is also set in Stone and WILL NOT REPAINT.

So, if you get a Red Arrow for a trend down the next Arrow will be Green on the turn of the swing/trend going up. And vice-versa. In consolidation is the same Red down and Green up and no repainting.
The Dove - Forex Trainer
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